Muertos Blog Discusses the Dying Zeitgeist Movement (I HAVE ADDED THE COMPLETE BLOG POST, SINCE ZEITGEIST MEMBERS ARE CONFUSED):
“You may wonder why it’s been more than two months since my last blog about the Zeitgeist Movement, the online cult that promotes conspiracy theories and markets itself through a series of fraudulent Internet movies. The simple answer is that the Zeitgeist Movement is basically dead. As I predicted last April when it divorced from the Venus Project in a messy public row, the movement seems to have shriveled down to a burnt-out nub of hardcore supporters who are finding it increasingly difficult to command any sort of public attention. Their forum has been shut down, replaced with a blog that isn’t exactly lighting the blogosphere on fire. Their “media event” was a total failure. Their ham-handed attempts to insinuate themselves into a position of leadership in the Occupy movement have resulted in them being totally ostracized and excluded from all organized Occupy events. Even some of Zeitgeist’s most vociferous critics haven’t updated their blogs in months. With as bleak as their fortunes have become, there’s honestly not much more I could do that would have any utility. (Incidentally, the other conspiracy cult I have written about, Desteni, is more or less dead too, but that’s another issue).”
It is nice, however, to know that my efforts to expose the truth about the nefarious and troubling organization known as Zeitgeist have had an effect. And they have. I cannot and do not take any credit for the decline and eventual extinction of the Zeitgeist Movement. Peter Merola’s conspiracy cult is quite capable of committing seppuku on its own without any help from critics, though I do believe critics have been crucial in making sure that the debunkings of the films and the very legitimate criticisms of the movement they spawned are highly visible to anyone searching for information on Zeitgeist. But I seem to have helped individual people realize the truth about Zeitgeist. One of them emailed me today. He gave me permission to post his words here, and they speak for themselves–an eloquent testament to the power of reason to overcome the irrational thought that seems to be choking the life out of our public discourse.
“My name is ______________ and I read your article the other day on that e-mail the ConspiracyScience guys received. I’ve been meaning to tell you for some time actually that I went through a similar experience with the Zeitgeist movies. It was reading the ConspiracyScience blog and yours that made me stop believing in them.
The thing that really hooked me about it was the Christ Conspiracy stuff at the start. I used to be a really devout Catholic, but lost my faith around 2004, 2005. I was really getting disgusted by the behaviour of the religious right in America, or the Magdalene Laundries and other stuff that happened in Irish history (I’m from Ireland btw). So I was becoming more & more anti-religious over the years and by the time I saw Zeitgeist I was blown away by the idea that Jesus didn’t even exist in the first place. What great validation for someone like me, who was anti-religious, right?
But I was uneasy about the other parts of the movie. As much as I hated George Bush I never really bought the 9/11 thing, although I imagine that’s the reason many people did. I started to think “Surely if one part of the movie is complete bollocks, that calls the rest of it into judgement?” Ironically, I then started seeing debunkings of Zeitgeist Part One on the internet. JUST dealing with the religion part. These were almost invariably done by devoutly religious people which made me dismissive of them and many of them would actually end their critiques by saying “No the other two parts of the movie are fine! Just don’t spread Zeitgeist around! Use Alex Jones or ‘America: Freedom to Fascism’ or whatever.” That wasn’t too far from a verbatim quote. There were people who were focusing solely on the religious part, while fully accepting Parts Two & Three. Again, the question was begged, “Surely if one part of the movie is complete bollocks, that calls the rest of it into judgement?”
But ‘Zeitgeist Addendum’ came out then I felt GREAT! I totally bought the RBE idea and thought it would be a great thing to move towards. I particularly liked the green energy aspects of it, as it’s an area of interest of mine, and I put a clip of that part on YouTube. Studying more about renewable energy though, I’d read Prof. David MacKay’s “Sustainable Energy Without the Hot Air” (which I’d thoroughly recommend btw – it’s available as a free PDF here http://withouthotair.com ) which was a painstakingly scientifically accurate assessment of the potential of different energy sources from a PhD physicist. In it, MacKay really downplayed the potential of geothermal energy which PJ Merola LOVES and called into question other info he used. I eventually felt bad about having the video on YouTube, knowing it wasn’t scientifically accurate, so I decided to take it down.
But it was still a long time before I saw any rebuttal of Zeitgeist that didn’t focus solely on the religion part. Then I saw a link to ConspiracyScience’s full point-by-point rebuttal in a conversation about it. Now there were a lot of things that appealed to me about Zeitgeist and the RBE vision for the future. And there was philosophy towards the end of Addendum that I found really relatable. I dunno if it was you or another ConspiracyScience writer who pointed out the irony that PJ’s claim in the movie that “we should be open to new information at all times, even it conflicts with our current worldview” was completely at odds with TZM’s refusal to engage with any criticism. But it was something that rung true for me, so in the interest of scepticism, I read the rebuttal. And man, it really took it apart for me.
Specifically the religion part had been presented with such a tone of authority I don’t blame myself for buying into it. But it’s kind of hard not to when there was such obvious bollocks as “seeing the Sun in front of the Southern Crux – a constellation visible only from the Southern hemisphere where the Bible wasn’t written” or “God’s Son is God’s Sun – a word that sounds the same in English, in spite of it being written in a different language initially”.
I kept reading through the rebuttals anyway, particularly of Addendum. Cuz like many TZMers I’m sure you’ve come across, I would have embraced Addendum while distancing myself from the first movie for a while. The ending was the most crushing critique of all though: something along the lines of “How do you get a single mother working two jobs to spend 4 hours watching your movie only to tell her all we’re going to be doing right now is ‘spreading the word’ over the internet? How selfish is that?” Ouch.
I dunno if I can pinpoint the exact moment I lost faith in TZM but it is mostly to do with reading that blog and yours. That interview where PJ actually compares himself to Martin Luther King AND Socrates, of all people, was probably when alarm bells were ringing for me (to his credit, he can play a mean xylophone though). With hindsight I don’t understand why he didn’t use that more as a marketing tool? Something like:
“The Zeitgeist Movement is not a political movement. It is does not recognise boundaries of race, gender, class, religion or nationality. It is a social movement dedicated to raising global awareness of a ‘resource-based economy’, a global, nationless society where everyone’s means are provided for, based upon the measured carrying capacity of the Earth’s resources and the improvement of human living standards through the application of the scientific method. ……Also, I am the new Socrates.”
LOL
Another development I suppose was increasing disgust for conspiracy theorists. Particularly climate change deniers, to whom I’m glad you don’t give the special treatment they demand; you see them as they are, idiot conspiracy theorists with a retarded worldview just like the rest of them. It becomes a lot easier to engage with them once you remember that. But I guess that tendency and conspiracy theorists in general, are just anti-intellectualist which I hate. It’s such a closed worldview, but at least I understand it. It gives them comfort to think that all of the world’s problems are being caused by a few bad people and once you kill them the world will be paradise. But in order to do this, they cannot afford to be wrong because any evidence that contradicts the theory must be propaganda, just look at how much else the NWO are capable of. So if they admit they’re wrong, it’s like they’re giving up on humanity, which they can’t afford to do. This arrogance & blindness really is exactly like religious behaviour and it’s painfully ironic that it goes against the stated rhetoric within “Zeitgeist Addendum” that I really responded to.
So of course I lost interest in whatever TZM were (not) doing and I was only proven right when I saw the trailer for “Zeitgeist Moving Forward” was 5 minutes long. How indulgent is that? Are you expecting people to watch a 5-minute long trailer, let alone the whole movie? The movie naturally ended up being almost 3 hours long. There’s already 4 hours before that! And another hour & a half if you count that TZM Presentation video. I very quickly skipped through it in the space of 10 minutes and found that it was repeating information already in the other films, its interviewees were mostly white and with the exception of Roxanne Meadows, were all male (for some reason I don’t think white men have had great ideas about how to run the world so far) and the ending had a cringe-inducingly melodramatic song. (And I actually liked the music of the first two movies!) It would have been WAY more accurate to have called it “Zeitgeist: Going Nowhere”.
And I didn’t even HEAR about the TZM/TVP split for months until after it happened. I read about it on your blog. I just love your blog in general, it really articulately captures all the issues around conspiracist thinking and that movement. And I can see how combating that thinking does produce a positive social good. It certainly had an impact on me. All I did was read information that contradicted my strongly held beliefs, like the movie told me to do and I ended up freeing myself from its delusions, hypocrisy and egomaniacal creator. So I really do want to thank you for the work you and the other guys put into that blog. I want to add my thanks to the other thanks you’ve received. Not only do I appreciate it, I just happen to enjoy your writing very much.
Kind regards.”
An email like this is the greatest thanks I could possibly receive for my efforts in debunking conspiracy theories in general and Zeitgeist in particular. It’s also a terrific note upon which to conclude (barring unforeseen major events) my investigation of the Zeitgeist Movement. Just knowing that I made a positive difference and helped turn someone away from conspiracy thinking and a conspiracy-based movement is a great validation. A little positive feedback is always nice to have, and this one is exceptional in my view.Thanks for reading.
READ COMPLETE BLOG POST HERE: http://muertos.blog.com/2011/11/04/embracing-reason-part-ii-a-former-zeitgeist-supporter-walks-away/
I guess u can now close down this blog.
No, I don’t think Muertos will do that.
ROTFLMFAO – where have YOU been living? under a rock? And yeah! Closing down the blog would be a pretty good idea Anonymous Good suggestion.
As long as their website is still up, I don’t see why this site has to be taken down.
Since the zeitgeist movement has died I must be dead then! Yay!
Well Flat Earth Society is dead but there’s still a few of those cranks left.
I wonder what you mean by the word dead then. If there’s cranks left in the Flat Earth Society then it’s still alive, just like if there’s a few cranks left in TZM. For the zeitgeist movement to be dead all zeitgeist supporters need to be dead. I personally support the idea of all zeitgeist supporters being dead which is why I keep visiting this website. Keep up the good work!
Most of the commenters are missing the main point of this blog. It’s not whether the Zeitgeist Movement is dead or not. It’s about a former supporter and the reasons why he turned away from supporting the cult. Not only is it a tremendous thank-you to those of us who have expended considerable effort in educating the public about this group and what they really stand for, but it’s also proof positive that facts and reasoned arguments presented against the tenets of Zeitgeist are successful in turning people away from the group.
Although I believe the decline of the Zeitgeist Movement is undeniable and its eventual extinction inevitable, the last thing I wanted to do was open a debate about whether or not it’s technically “dead” at this moment in time. I urge all the commenters, particularly the pro-Zeitgeist ones, to read the actual blog and understand why people are abandoning the movement, and why gaining significant numbers of adherents in the future is an extremely unlikely prospect.
Zeitgiesters? Read? Ha!
the zombies never comment on what is written. usually they deviate and address their own little sensibilities that are hurt within the context of the article, but never do they address the article as a whole. they may say, “peter is not the leader”, when the article might be about any subject but also hints to Peters leadership. Since they are only preprogrammed with zombie answers, usually they will just call you a troll, say peter is not the leader, the movies are not the movement, we are not a cult, or any combination of the above, etc.
why not argue against the tenants of using technology to provide abundance, and therefore eliminating scarcity. Why not argue against the need to move from a growth economy to a steady state economy. why not argue against the logic of engineering the environment to reduce the cause of crime? All you do is character assassinate and try to shit all over the events, which have all been really awesome by the way, despite what you say. I’ve gone through many of your posts, and you haven’t debunked the Recourse Based Economy itself, you just try to shoot the messengers.
Most members of Zeitgeist Movement are followers because of the first movie, the namesake “zeitgeist”. Most members were introduced to Resource Based Economy by watching peter josephs follow up film addendum, not because they were studying economic models, came across the RBE, and then discovered peters film. In other words, if Peter Joseph would of said the answer is “Magical Abundance Economy”, the zombies would have become “MAE” advocates, instead of “RBE” advocates.
I saw the 3rd and 2nd movies first. The first movie is pretty cool but is totally irrelevant to the movement. Is this what the hate is all about?
Man just go grab that massive source guide and debunk it line by line if it’s the first film your beef is with.
Sources have been debunked.
This zeitgeist members response is typical of the canned program responses from other Peter Joseph followers. “The Movie isnt the Movement”. The whole TZM concept is nothing more than a ponzi scheme conspiracy movie distribution network.
“why not argue against the tenants of using technology to provide abundance, and therefore eliminating scarcity. ”
Who knows what TZM means by abundance anymore, when Peter Joseph Merola tries to explain what a Resource-Based Economy is, he says that and at the same time said that we live in a finite world:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/zmglobal/2010/10/06/10610–peter-joseph-8-lectures-2-a-resource-based-
There’s no need to control 100% of resources of the world unless the real reason for it is because the magical abundance can’t be promised, so you’re being fed with false hope already.
“why not argue against the logic of engineering the environment to reduce the cause of crime?”
If you think poverty really causes crime and think that if we had no money, 95% of crime would go away, then arguing would be pointless.
Not true Mario, we all know serial killers and rapists do it for the money.
You don’t need infinite resources to provide abundance. You just need a little more in excess than what people require. The whole issue on the finite resources on Earth is the waste we produce. If we aim to preserve these resources as much as technically possible, there’s very few things you can’t provide in abundance.
Poverty doesn’t cause crime so much as inequality. In a society of have’s and have not’s yes crime is much higher. In poverty stricken areas where eating rats is a luxery, there’s no one to really steal from, at least locally. I’d agree poverty doesn’t directly cause crime, but Inequality absolutely does.
Mmmmmmmmmmmm…. Rats.
“I’d agree poverty doesn’t directly cause crime, but Inequality absolutely does.”
I’m pretty sure Jerry Sandusky was pretty poverty stricken working as an assistant coach at Penn State when he was raping those boys. Clearly causal.
Anonymous,
1st of all, tenant ≠ tenent.
The easiest way to argue against the tenents of the Zeitgeist movement is look to what they have done to change things in the real world. Show me one example of a scarce good that Zeitgeisters have, in the last three years, affected in any way. Have you implemented any of Zeitgeist’s tenents ? Or do you spend all your time talking about them on the internet?
TZM is a movement of gimme, gimme, gimme, that is expecting other people to eliminate scarcity just by talking about it on the internet.
If it were up to me, TZM would have never been called TZM, and Venus Project sounds awfully silly.
Why the fuck to smart people do dumb things? Intellectual seppuku with a couple of good ideas completely taken down in the process.
The ZM is far from dead.
We know the whole “If you repeat a lie often enough…” but it’s not going to work. It’s painstakingly obvious people aren’t buying the Zeitgeist lie. People are leaving in droves and people simply aren’t joining like they used to. Barely anyone is making those “why I advocate” videos anymore:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=videos&search_query=%22Why+I+advocate+the+Zeitgeist+Movement%22&search_sort=video_date_uploaded&suggested_categories=29%2C22%2C27%2C28&page=1
The Zeitgeist Media Festival could only pull in about 80 people in LA and the rest of the events were shamefully dismal:
It may not be dead, but it’s dying fast. I’m bettin’ Scientology has better numbers than TZM
Here’s a good read
http://veritas.wordofmy.com/2010/11/18/debunking-james-kush/
sure, this one as well: http://planbfromthebacardiroom.blogspot.com/2011/01/kush-kush-dang-dang.html
Again, no one is talking about the real substance of my post, which are the words of the ex-supporter who turned against the Zeitgeist Movement. In fact I have a sneaking suspicion that the pro-Zeitgeist people making comments here haven’t read more than the truncated paragraph that appears on this page. Unfortunately the comments posted here demonstrate why it’s usually pointless to engage in debate with Zeitgeist Movement members. Everything they say is completely diversionary and based on the false assumption that the only discussion about Zeitgeist worth having is some esoteric debate on “using technology to provide abundance” or “eliminating scarcity.” Those are not the issues we’re discussing. Not even close. As much as pro-Zeitgeist people want everything to be about that, those subjects are quite minor aspects of the Zeitgeist Movement. The main point of the Zeitgeist Movement is to promote conspiracy theories and advance the personal, financial and creative interests of one person (Peter Joseph Merola). This is the argument I’ve been making for nearly two years now, it’s the argument that is repeated on this blog nearly every week, and it’s the argument that Zeitgeist Movement members utterly refuse to engage with.
Read the article, people. That’s my main point in posting a comment here, which I very rarely do. But considering it’s my words at issue, please, read the damn article.
muertos, mainly because your post isn’t interesting and I don’t actually care if you call a lively group a corpse.
Here’s another good read where Rick Ross debunked you
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,97823,page=16
He’s saying it’s a benign cult.
@anonymous Actually, Rick Ross made it clear that ZEITGEIST was a “personality cult, a benign fringe group with a cult following, like trekkies”. That was of course before Zeitgeist Members were on record talking about how important it was to kill people to help Peter Joseph. Either way, the cult label sticks, never once in my life have I had to say, I am not in a cult to friends, family, and acquaintances. So for Zeitgeist members around the world who have had to face these accusations, going so far as writing blogs and creating youtube videos demanding people not refer to them as a cult. Little benefit to Zeitgeist that Rick Ross ONLY called them a “benign fringe group with a cult following”. Plus, articles, blogs, ANONYMOUS, and EVEN the Occupy Movement have come out calling TZM a cult! So really, who’s message is getting across???
Lastly,
How about this video
Yes, that video was created by Zeitgeist Movement to train zombies how to think in response to the forum thread where Zeitgeist members talk about how nice it would be to kill innocent people for their God Peter Joseph. Im not sure how any of this makes me look bad, other than making Zeitgeist look more like a c-u-l-t???
They couldn’t be bothered to spell mine or Ron’s name right. They do the typical anyone who disagrees with the cult is a “troll” (black and white/us vs. them mentality.) The argument was never TZM wants to kill YOU, they wanted to kill members of an imaginary group called “The elite” who consisted of innocent people. There wasn’t one line taken out of context, it was an entire thread where most people were advocating violence against this group. Of course the no true Scotsman fallacy. A member of TZM isn’t “by definition” someone who doesn’t support violence, it’s someone who advocates a RBE. This is no different than when a Christian claims people who are in jail aren’t TRUE Christians because TRUE Christians don’t kill, rape, steal,…etc.
http://s1133.photobucket.com/albums/m591/RonaldoDeLosMuertos/Zeitgeist%20Forum%20Screenshots/
And another video in which Stefan Molyneux makes some good points, take note
That video you posted is one the Zeitgeist Zombies use to push the “we are not a cult campaign”, the same you are on. The funny thing is, Stefan is an accused cult leader. I have addressed this here: http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/02/08/accused-cult-leader-says-zeitgeist-movement-is-not-a-cult/
and this video pretty much sums it up:
So, one more tactic by Peter Joseph zombie drones, use cult leaders to claim they are not a cult. Fucking hilarious! Anything else??
I wouldn’t go so far as to call the guy a cult leader, but his group is too “culty” for my tastes. Which is why I never joined his forum or gave him money. Same with Ayn Rand. But yea, using someone who is alleged to be a cult leader to debunk a claim that something else is a cult is a bit silly.
Maybe we should go ask Harold Camping if the Raelians are a cult.
yes you are right, correction, accused cult leader
Even still, this doesn’t show TZM is alive and well. This article is about how TZM is dead.
ridicule
noun
1.
speech or action intended to cause contemptuous laughter at a person or thing; derision.
verb (used with object)
2.
to deride; make fun of.
traumatise them to them them commit suicide.I “kill” them with logic until they leave or call me a troll. Because a troll is anyone who has real reasons for opposing your cult.
And another
We addressed this. But if you really want to prove Zeitgeist Movement is not a cult I will do you a favor:
Make a youtube video of yourself talking into the camera explaining how zeitgeist is not a cult.
Then I will post it on my blog so everybody can hear your explanation, deal?
But that would mean he would have to show his face and let his friends and family know he’s part of that cul… I mean fringe group with a cult following.
This is another dictionary definition of “Cult”.
1. Adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices
2. An interest followed with exaggerated zeal
3. A system of religious beliefs and rituals
It’s clear as day as to why the zeitgeist movement is a cult.
1. believing love is good is WRONG
2. being interested in anything is WRONG
3. religion and science are equally full of SHIT
So you see the zeitgeist movement needs to be killed if they promote anything.I have the right to my own opinion eat your mom’s head. Have you ever heard of the Anime “death note”? If so what do you think I would do with a death notebook?Keithtruth was right, in his movie aquarius: age of evil, he explains that all members of TZM should not be “Allowed to live”.We shall build our great country on the blood of the zeitgeist movement.How about you show your face James in a video and post it on your blog?
I disagree. I do not think anybody needs to be killed. I think the Zeitgeist is a circus act, meant to be ridiculed, not harmed in anyway shape or form. Unlike the Zeitgeist benign fringe cult, I do not blame any group of people for whatever my problems. The Zeitgeist Movement thinks its o.k. to kill innocent people and they bask in the publicity of murder done in the Zeitgeist name, I think that is horrible.