Zeitgeist, a weird internet cult revolving around their GOD figure, a man central to their science faith, Peter Joseph is known to feature odd characters to promote their world understanding. Zeitgeist is based on some colorful characters including Acharya S, Jordan Maxwell, and now its also based on a scientist who has crossed legal lines to conduct their version of “treatment”.
Dr. Gabor Maté was using ayahuasca, which induces a trance to drug addicts.
COMPLETE ARTICLE HERE: http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2011/11/08/addiction-alternative-mate.html
How dare you try to bash Gabor Maté ? Have you looked up what he’s doing everyday of his life? He treats hardcore addicts (Actually in his own words, he TRIES to treat them, he says that if he manages to help only 5% of them he would call that a success) It’s that hard to treat hardcore addicts. Gabor Mate is just a very honest man, there is NOTHING bad about what he’s doing, that goes for most of the people in this “CULT” as you would call it, VERY honsest people who isn’t trying to make a friggin profit of it. It should be easy for you to see that but apparently it’s too hard for you people to measure peoples intentions, (asberger maybe?)
5% lol.
His success rates are no better than the usual twelve step programs like AA. There are thousands of 12 step counselors that I’m sure work just as hard or harder to treat hard core addicts and don’t try to develop the cult like following that Gabor Maté does.
If you really care about hard core addicts maybe you guys should see what you can do to help out the local addicts in your own community instead of trying to worship some internet celebrity and pretend to care.
Yes 5 %, What was so funny? When there is no argument, the best way is to laugh at someone to look like you won the discussion.
Well I think you have shitbergers, so there.
You just hate for the sake of hating, it’s pathetic. Go and watch some videos of Gabor Mate and you will see he is a man with a lot of knowledge.
for example
He has so much knowledge…..
Let’s follow Gabor to Yoga church to learn that people with addictions are just babies wanting a tit to suck on……
You have no argument so you attack a metaphor, really?
Nice trolling
I was starting to watch the video you put up and once Gabor said that people with ADHD use cocaine to calm down, I lol’d and said to myself that he should have just told the audience that people smoke crack in order to go to sleep. I’m really trying to figure out how enabling people stops people from doing drugs.
You’re the troll.
YES I AGREE HE IS A TROLL EH’S A ACADEMIC TROLL!!!1
OPPPSS MY MISTAKE i THOUGH THIS WAS REFERRING TO MARIOBRO. CARL IS JUST A IDIOT TROLL.
I already made the argument in the post above, which you ignored.
I was making fun of the metaphor. The metaphor is in essence what his “lot of knowledge” consists of.
Addicts are like babies who don’t want to cope with fear and emotional pain of life in the real world. Gabor is the wet nurse who weans people off of the tit.
Justintempler, “His success rates are no better than the usual twelve step programs like AA” Nor has he said it is. What he is saying a lot about tho is the underlying causes, what makes people susceptible to drugs. Of course there are more people with this knowledge. But people won’t get a breaking news segment on tv explaining what he just discovered. It doesn’t work that way, it takes time and the only way things will change is if people investigate it more until we see a direct pattern. I have heard just recently many therapeutic psychologist who are saying just what Gabor is saying so I think they are right.
NO I am not saying that Gabor Matè was right, and first to discover this and should be praised, should rule the world. Stop putting words in my mouth.
I see this pattern that you put this label “You want him to be a hero” on everyone. Sure there are many like that, for example I saw this picture and wondered if it was for real. http://i.imgur.com/qiVLTl.jpg
I am not a member on TZM, I am just simply agreeing with a lot that peter brings up in the moving forward film.
Mario Brotha
“I’m really trying to figure out how enabling people stops people from doing drugs.”
What stops people from doing drugs is to get people to have a functioning reward system, which will make people much less susceptible to drugs. That is the fundamental thing.
Do you think these hard core addicts should go to jail because they use drugs which is the only reward system they have? How can you not understand them?
These people was probably feeling miserable all their life and experienced a whole new feeling of joy when they took drugs in the beginning, and then they became addicts.
Don’t try and play victim. You’re the only person putting words in people’s mouths.
“I see this pattern that you put this label “You want him to be a hero” on everyone.”
You just made up a fake quotation and accused me of applying it to everyone…….
Are you being dishonest on purpose?
“Of course there are more people with this knowledge. But people won’t get a breaking news segment on tv explaining what he just discovered.”
If the first sentence is true, then the second sentence doesn’t make any sense.
Why should we have breaking news for something he just discovered if a lot of people already have that knowledge?
I suggest the only reason you are impressed with Gabor and agree with a lot of things in ZMF is because you are still pretty ignorant and spend way too much time getting your education from “breaking news segments” and YouTube videos.
“Do you think these hard core addicts should go to jail because they use drugs which is the only reward system they have?”
Well it seems like it’s going to happen with their luck anyways. I think sobriety should be the reward they go after. The hardcore addicts are usually the ones who put someone in danger in some way, drinking and driving, people breaking and entering your house and selling your shit for a high that only last for a few seconds, someone to drugged up and wants to fight you for no reason, someone who would steal a purse from a elderly woman, etc, you know, the ones that break law to actually feed their addiction which is illegal, back on the breaking and entering, this is why I don’t encourage enabling drug addicts, meaning from my position, just giving them money when they ask, even when they say they need it for something that’s not related to their addiction, lying in other words, because once you do that, they will rationalize and think that stealing from you is okay because they think you’re rich. If you have the patience with that person and they have taken advantage of you or not, then yeah, I would try to get them to rehab before shit gets bad. But the thing about rehab is, the hardcore drug addicts can walk out whenever and you wasted your money for nothing, so it’s a risk, I made risks like that before, sometimes I can help others by sending them to the right direction and having more personal conversations with them and try to get them to think about something besides drugs all the time, but sometimes they relapse. If the person is really trying to quit, meaning they know it’s bad for them because they know it harms them on the long run, then I might stick with them, but if they don’t want my help or anyone’s help, then jail seems like the last option for them eventually for reasons I mentioned. There’s no happy ending usually, as you said, it’s hard, but at least with jail, they are forced to go into a withdraw because they can’t just walk out like they could in rehab. I would like the hardcore addict to brush that shit off a bit before thinking about bailing him or her out. Again, risks, that’s life. Besides they’ll think about quitting more if they don’t want to be in that position again. I really don’t care about the short term for drug addicts, because it’s short, but I’m really worried about the long term effects which damages the person and watching the video you put up, Gabor seems to brush that off a bit and praises the short terms more encouraging people in the audience to experiment for fun subtly and possibly getting them stuck with the rest of the hardcore addicts that are already out there. That’s why I don’t view all these hardcore addicts [addicts period] as people who have been abused or whatever, I recognized some of them have and should be open about what happened to them which I think is a road to recovery, but I know some people who have shithouse lives and have different ways to deal with stress, music, comedy, writing, building, planting, etc. I encourage hobbies. Gabor is the type of person I can see telling a morphine addict to use cocaine to stop using morphine, yeah, he seems to be the type that uses the 19th century thinking of medicine and somehow I’m suppose to believe what he’s saying is brand new or the other shit he says as if I haven’t heard it before from other therapists, then he stresses that what he says isn’t in textbooks, his arrogance [which I know he realizes he has] is hilarious, that’s the impression I got from him and I don’t know much about him to be honest. Other than that, I don’t really give a shit about him or any experts in the film, I don’t think a RBE can work anyways.
“That’s why I don’t view all these hardcore addicts [addicts period] as people who have been abused or whatever, I recognized some of them have and should be open about what happened to them which I think is a road to recovery, but I know some people who have shithouse lives and have different ways to deal with stress, music, comedy, writing, building, planting, etc. I encourage hobbies. Gabor is the type of person I can see telling a morphine addict to use cocaine to stop using morphine, yeah, he seems to be the type that uses the 19th century thinking of medicine and somehow I’m suppose to believe what he’s saying is brand new or the other shit he says as if I haven’t heard it before from other therapists, then he stresses that what he says isn’t in textbooks, his arrogance [which I know he realizes he has] is hilarious, that’s the impression I got from him and I don’t know much about him to be honest. Other than that, I don’t really give a shit about him or any experts in the film, I don’t think a RBE can work anyways.”
First of all, an honest text, I like that.
Gabor says that a person who hasn’t their needs met:
A non stressed parent
An emotionally available parent
A Present parent
Parenting Caregiver
Will not develop certain circuits and therefore will suffer a higher risk to self meditate. So it’s inst just abuse that causes this, every addicts hasn’t get punched in the face everyday as a child…
You mention that these people with shithouse lives can deal with stress etc, what do you know whats inside their brain? Maybe they have that ability since they got their needs met as children?
“and somehow I’m suppose to believe what he’s saying is brand new or the other shit he says as if I haven’t heard it before from other therapists”
No you are not. I have seen several lectures when he says “and this is nothing new” etc. I don’t get where you get that from.
This has nothing to do with RBE for that matter. It is about giving children what they need so that they don’t become problems and most importantly so that they can have good lives. It is all very logic, today’s parents are stressed and many of they not emotionally available for their children.
“First of all, an honest text, I like that.”
I’m trying.
“Will not develop certain circuits and therefore will suffer a higher risk to self meditate.”
I think single parents [for an example] can manage to raise healthy children. Even parents working, both the father and mother can still give those needs as the parents go to work and children go to school, they both also have uncles, aunts, grandparents, godparents, etc that can surround them with emotional needs.
“So it’s inst just abuse that causes this, every addicts hasn’t get punched in the face everyday as a child…”
Wow that’s crazy, well, if we’re talking about child abuse, then I would recommend reading the article that justintempler just posted, I’ll provide an excerpt:
“You mention that these people with shithouse lives can deal with stress etc, what do you know whats inside their brain?”
If you’re asking how I know they can deal with stress without doing drugs, then I think I just proved it, twice.
“I have seen several lectures when he says “and this is nothing new” etc. I don’t get where you get that from.”
Then he contradicted himself with the textbook comment he made in the video you put up.
“This has nothing to do with RBE for that matter.”
Got it.
“It is all very logic, today’s parents are stressed and many of they not emotionally available for their children.”
Everyone gets stressed but they are not paralyzed by it.
“Everyone gets stressed but they are not paralyzed by it.”
That comment is interesting because it’s right, now how come some doesn’t handle it well? Because the children didn’t have their needs met according to Gabor. A newborn baby is premature even after 9 months, it has certain needs that will develop certain parts of the brain. Many addicts have a hard time with impulse control etc.
We aren’t talking about the same stress here (or the stress may in some cases be equal with that person cannot handle that stress), it has nothing to do with free will. Since so many people don’t want to do drugs yet they do it anyway, you can’t say that those people are lazy or whatever because maybe they aren’t, maybe they don’t have the tools in their brain to deal with it.
This lecture is good
“That comment is interesting because it’s right, now how come some doesn’t handle it well?”
Because they are more addicted to the amount of dopamine they get from which ever drugs, so I kind of disagree when Gabor says the drugs are not the blame themselves to getting people addicted. Obviously some of them are very addictive. As he explained, that cocaine releases your dopamine to 300% and crystal meth releases your dopamine to 1200%, the higher the percentage, the more intense the high you get. But I think even people who have nice lives could drift along and become hardcore addicts themselves because of the dopamine rush as well, as he mentioned in this video, the more the rat mothers lick their babies, they become less curious, as he also explained in the video, dopamine makes us explore and wonder. Yes he said this. But he doesn’t take that into account and just makes you focus on the so-called abused drug addicts only. By the way, the woman he talked about in the beginning of this video is not someone I would consider to be an abused person, the only one I thought was being abused was the baby she left in the dryer as she went out to some bar to flirt with some guys and continue being an alcoholic, that baby is going to become an adult and turn into a ball when he gets rejected in some way due to his implicit memory. Oh and his relationship advice is just great, if you’re going stay with a drug addict, he says to try not to change them in order to make them quit and if you still want to change them, then you should leave the person. That’s probably why people judge drug addicts so much, not because the people that are judging are guilty themselves being addicts, if they were addicts, they would be friends, not one being judged and the one judging, as he said, our brains not knowing we’re doing it, as he concluded in the video. I also disagree on ignoring family history when it comes to treating people, I doubt doctors would treat a crack baby the same way they would treat a regular baby.
“A newborn baby is premature even after 9 months, it has certain needs that will develop certain parts of the brain.”
I agree with Gabor that without atonement, the child no matter what age I think will feel neglected, then could lead to depression, then could lead to drugs. But I’m sure family therapy could help the atoning, therefore, help the brain.
“We aren’t talking about the same stress here (or the stress may in some cases be equal with that person cannot handle that stress), it has nothing to do with free will.”
I’m still not understanding why he’s promoting cocaine as the solution, again, as he said, the “stimulant” this time, to get people to stop doing drugs. He does a great job on defining the parts of your brain, but then he tells you about Vietnam again and how the first year when people came back to the US, 20% of them were heroin addicts, then a few years later, only 1% came back as heroin addicts, I’m willing to bet the recovery wasn’t due to introducing soldiers ayahuasca, they had what Gabor accuses addicts not having, the “free won’t”. So he contradicts himself again and not knows it and you defend that and I don’t get it.
“This lecture is good”
My impulse control said it sucked, my grey matter said it’s better for discussion.
Don’t play the victim now justintempler, you do put words in people’s mouths and you would do just the same with me if I didn’t mentioned it.
fake quotation? Well, if you mean literally then yes. But it’s the same shit. (look who’s playing the victim)
“Are you being dishonest on purpose?” Are you an asshole on purpose? since most of your arguments are irrelevant.
About the breaking news and the knowledge that I said that more people have. You don’t see the reason for it to be big news just because a very little clic of people know about (consider we are comparing to the whole worlds population) Why shouldn’t it be big news? Isn’t it better to spread it? If you are afraid of it being nonsense then what are you afraid of anyway?
“I suggest the only reason you are impressed with Gabor and agree with a lot of things in ZMF is because you are still pretty ignorant and spend way too much time getting your education from “breaking news segments” and YouTube videos.”
I am impressed with him for the same reason why I am impressed with any person of knowledge. Do you think I worship him? Do you think I watch him everyday or something?
In a discussion you MUST BE OPEN, otherwise it’s not a fuckin discussion. You have already judged me and you will not change your mind. That’s childish.
Tell me the difference between Gabor Maté and a similar author who is an expert in his subject. Have you ever to to a library, there are many books on advanced subjects that normal people have no clue of.
I don’t accept “Gabor Maté is fake because he was in a zeitgeist movie” You have to be a little more specific why you think of him so low.
You don’t want an open discussion.
You mirror back any argument made against you, and then, after being called out for making one fake quotation, what do you do?
You create another fake straw man quotation “Gabor Maté is fake because he was in a zeitgeist movie”
You can go find someone else to play strawman with, I’m not interested.
Wow, way to run away of a discussion. You have no arguments, that’s the reason you want to end it.
Your definition of “fake quotation” is ridiculous, I said that you cannot answer that way. Looks like you were going to tho.
I wrote a whole bunch of things in my last comment, I want some answers.
“I want some answers.”
You want a RBEM, that’s what you want.
“50 percent of American adults have a chronic medical illness” Gabor Maté
His hook is he starts with a false premise, if you buy into the premise then he can come across as being very rational.
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The Seductive (But Dangerous) Allure of Gabor Maté
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/addiction-in-society/201112/the-seductive-dangerous-allure-gabor-mat
“…Maté has a theory of addiction rooted in childhood abuse. Maté combines his clinical experiences with brain research claiming the source of addiction is in formative brain chemicals. For Maté, the first five years of life (and even the environment in the womb) dictate the likelihood of addiction. He then relates this theoretical point of view to studies connecting stress, abuse and lack of love and attachment to not only life problems (as they have been for some time) but to deficiencies in people’s ability to process endorphins and dopamine — the neurochemicals in our bodies that provide us with both pleasure and pain relief.
Maté then claims that addiction results from deficiencies (lack of receptors) in these neurosystems that cause people with addictions to self-medicate to replace their missing neurostimulation. In this sense, people are addicted to drugs as replacements for the brain chemicals their own bodies fail to process. Those addicted to things other than drugs are reacting to the same internal chemistry, but with different external stimulants….”
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The essence of Maté’s theory boils down to a chemical imbalance in the brain which is what leads him to look to drugs like Ayahuasca. If you buy into the chemical imbalance theory you are pretty much fucked and the only way out of your addiction is to find some magic bullet to restore that chemical balance.
The chemical imbalance theory is the same theory that fuels the mental disease industry in the United States.
Feeling depressed? Pop a Zoloft.
Is your kid not paying attention in school? He must have ADHD time for a prescription for Ritalin.
If the chemical imbalance theory is true and we have all these drugs that restore the chemical balance, then why do we have growing numbers of addicts and mental disease? The answer of course is the chemical imbalance theory is a failed theory and that drugs don’t actually fix the chemical imbalance and doctors and addicts alike are always experimenting with getting the dosage of their drugs (legal or illegal) just right, and to make matters worse they add more drugs to counteract the side effects of the 1st drug that was supposed to cure the chemical imbalance.
I recommend the book: Anatomy of an Epidemic: Magic Bullets, Psychiatric Drugs, and the Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America
http://robertwhitaker.org/robertwhitaker.org/Anatomy%20of%20an%20Epidemic.html
The truth about fixing chemical imbalances in the brain.
I will give Gabor Maté the benefit of the doubt and praise his well meaning intention to attempt to help addicts, at the same time, I will criticize him for being blind to the contradictions of his own theory which helps keep people trapped in their addictions instead of curing them.
“50 percent of American adults have a chronic medical illness” Gabor Maté
Lol, that has never been picked up by me, it’s really irrelevant. I have a hard time believing that and if he says that to exaggerate then he would make himself look stupid, doesn’t make any sense.
The quote from this text (The Seductive (But Dangerous) Allure of Gabor Maté) doesn’t make any sense either, it says:
Gabor has the same view as today’s mental disease industry who gains on people buying zoloft.
Where is the logic? Unless he sells products like zoloft on his website.
Gabor hasn’t the same view at all. He has two aspects, preventing addiction (that occurs the first 10 years of a kids life) and dealing with addicts.
To be honest, most of what he says is about preventing addiction. He doesn’t say much about making addicts healthy because it’s hard. What he says tho is that the brain, even later in life can the develop new circuits (Neuroplasticity) so basically what he wants is to create an environment that makes this happen.
That’s not close to the “take a zoloft” theory. What did I miss with your thinking?
“I will give Gabor Maté the benefit of the doubt and praise his well meaning intention to attempt to help addicts”
That is great to hear because that is 100% true.
“I will criticize him for being blind to the contradictions of his own theory which helps keep people trapped in their addictions instead of curing them.”
And this part I don’t understand because that relates to the part I said was illogical and made no sense. What if the theory is true but is it Gabors fault that the medical industry is cynical and do it for profit because there is no other way known to us yet?
Btw, you are acknowledging that the medical industry is selling things that are not helping us in the long run so maybe there lives a zeitard in you too =)
Lastly I want to clarify that I am not a member of the zeitgeist movement, I don’t want the zeitgeist movement to do anything except influence as many as they can and thereafter we can discuss these things in a broader sense.
Many of you may be right about 1 thing tho, and that is that there may be many that wants peter joseph to become “the leader” and that the TZM will take over the world SOON and it will be a transition in 20 years or so. I don’t know if there are people like that because I have never read their forum.
“50 percent of American adults have a chronic medical illness” Gabor Maté
Lol, that has never been picked up by me, it’s really irrelevant. I have a hard time believing that and if he says that to exaggerate then he would make himself look stupid, doesn’t make any sense.
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You must be a die hard Gabor Maté fan. First you claim ignorance that he made the statement. Second you deny that if he did make the statement that is even relevant. And thirdly in the case that he did make the statement and that it is relevant then you proceed to make an excuse for him. You are trying to cover all the bases. You don’t even care what the truth is, you haven’t spent any time finding out if he actually said it, you’re spending all your time trying to rationalize away a statement he made that DOES make him look stupid.
You’re guilty of the same flawed thinking that Maté is guilty of. You start out with a flawed premise and then when you encounter contradictions instead of questioning the premise you try to rationalize the contradictions away so you can hold on to your flawed premise.
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The quote from this text (The Seductive (But Dangerous) Allure of Gabor Maté) doesn’t make any sense either, it says:
Gabor has the same view as today’s mental disease industry who gains on people buying zoloft.
Where is the logic? Unless he sells products like zoloft on his website.
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I willing to bet you didn’t even read past the quotation from:The Seductive (But Dangerous) Allure of Gabor Maté
I gave you the link for a reason. In the event it didn’t make any sense, you would have a starting point to try and make some sense out of it.
Here again it doesn’t make any sense to you because it poses a contradiction to your premise. So instead of investigating any further you delve right away into trying to rationalize away the contradictions. Gabor Maté and the medical disease industry are using the same premise as a starting point:
that addictions and mental illness are caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain.
So it follows that both will treat their patients trying to correct this chemical imbalance. Now if this chemical imbalance does not exist ( and there is zero evidence that it does exist) then it makes perfect sense that their treatment programs have such a poor success rate. This will also lead to poor success rates of any prevention programs. Both are using resources to treat chemical imbalances that they can’t demonstrate exist, so they both have no way of measuring the effectiveness of their treatments.
And just because you don’t see Zoloft on his website, you automatically assume he doesn’t prescribe his patients Zoloft? Do you know this for a fact or once again are you trying to rationalize away contradictions? I’m not privy to the details of his treatments but what I do know is he is the guy that wanted to give his patients Ayahuasca. I do know that he crusades for having government sponsored safe injection sites where addicts can continue to inject drugs in a “safe environment”. I do know he specializes in treating ADD/ADHD patients that have been already diagnosed that are more than likely have already bought into the chemical imbalance theory and are already taking drugs to treat their “chemical imbalances”. Do you have any evidence at all that he discontinues use of these drugs in his treatment regimen?
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He has two aspects, preventing addiction (that occurs the first 10 years of a kids life) and dealing with addicts.
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And both his aspects are based on the false premise that addiction is caused by a chemical imbalance.
The first one is very troubling. It doesn’t explain why only certain children in the same family become addicts. If you have a family of 5 children and they all have similar upbringing with the same parents, why do only 2 of the 5 develop addictions? Why do children that are raised by abusive and addicted parents grow up to be well adjusted adults without any addiction problems? Why do certain adults who developed normally as children only develop addictions later in life? Why do people that experience trauma later in life, develop addictions only after the trauma event, why did they lead perfectly normal lives before the trauma? Why is a single trauma event able to cause an addiction?
If his treatments have misidentified the cause, it comes as no surprise that he struggles to develop more effective treatments.
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Some of the other inconvenient truths to explain away.
Another one of Gabor Maté’s favorite scapegoats is Capitalism. He blames the stress of growing up in a Capitalistic society as a major cause of addiction. If Capitalism is the major cause then why do the native indigenous people’s of Canada suffer from epidemic rates of drug addiction where there is no Capitalism to speak of. Oh and I guess the infamous alcohol addiction in the former Soviet Union was caused by Capitalism too?
Why does Gabor Maté talk about his addiction to shopping and claim to suffer from ADHD?
The addict that can’t cure himself is claiming to have an effective treatment for other people? The motto: Physician, heal thyself, comes to mind.
I thought this was interesting to share:
http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20080820/clement_rx_080820?hub=BritishColumbiaHome