Why did The Venus Project part ways with The Zeitgeist Movement? by the Venus Project (Israel)
This video highlights how the Zeitgeist Movement are misled followers of a movie conspiracy ideology led by the leader Peter Joseph. It was created by a former Zeitgeist Movement Coordinator and presented as a informal explanation of why the Venus Project and Zeitgeist Movement spilt up from the Venus Project perspective. The greedy Peter Joseph was very angry somebody other than himself was getting his followers donations and making a movie aside from his conspiracy film series “Zeitgeist”. Notably, the video makes it 100% clear, Peter is the leader and the movement, his followers.
here is the complete video:
Yuuuuupppp, turns out they were Zombies all along:
The Venus Project sure knows how to rub it in lol.
Again – Why do you keep censoring me? Are you afraid of what I say?
Anonymous supports a RBE
http://anoncentral.tumblr.com/post/12599163860/occupy-solutions-uniting-humans
Nice try but that info was posted not by ANON but by:
Director & Founder:
Occupy Solutions – Uniting Humans
http://www.unitinghumans.com/
“We Are Uniting for Solutions”
OccupySolutions@UnitingHumans.com
NEXT!!!
It doesn’t matter who posted it, Anonymous support the RBE you tit.
Are you stupid? Have you heard of #opghostbusters? go look it up. That article was posted and redirects to a zeitgeist site. Anonymous is not only against the Zeitgeist Cult, they are arming up to attack lol
Are you stupid? Have you heard of #opghostbusters? go look it up. That article was posted and redirects to a zeitgeist site. Anonymous is not only against the Zeitgeist Cult, they are arming up to attack lol
You couldn’t be more wrong. Anonymous supports the RBE model. We are not going to attack the Zeitgeist Movement.
Your only proof Anonymous supports TZM is an article written by a zeitgeist member?
ok, ive been lazy about my next post but Dr Mario brought it up and Ill post something today.
Here we go
“anonforTZM” lol zombies are getting desperate!! can you explain #opghostbusters?
and yet ANONYMOUS launches a cyber attack on your Zeitgeist Religion!~
Why do you keep censoring me?
Because you keep talking about murdering others.
My genes tell me to
This message is mirrored on V-radio’s forum in the event of censorship
1. Did you hear the 11/16/2011 TZM global blogtalkradio broadcast? Peter Joseph basically says if you look at him as a prophet and want to follow him, then we’re “fucking doomed”. This contradicts your assertion that Peter is the leader of the cult. He says he gets emails from people asking him what they should do, and to me it sounds like he throws his hands up in the air at that question. So then if Peter Joseph himself proclaims he doesn’t want followers, who is leading the zeitgeist cult? Does Ben McLeish actually need to be your target?
2. Why do you think murder is wrong? It would be mature of you to explain why you think murder is wrong to this audience rather than to censor me. Censorship shows your inability to confront what I say to you. I remember you insulting the zeitgeist cult for censoring material then you do the same.
3. If you think the cult isn’t allowed to promote the RBE idea because of the breakup between TZM and TVP, then how are you going to stop the cult members from promoting it and ensure only TVP can promote it?
This media project image was submitted after the breakup for example
http://zeitgeistmediaproject.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2094:rbemap&catid=5:visualmedia&Itemid=2
1) A zeitgeist coordinator and others have already made it clear Peter Joseph is the leader and controls everything TZM including profits and revenues from all zeitgeist related events. zeitgeist movement is the pyramid scheme distribution network for peter josephs conspiracy film series, nothing else.
2) I blocked you 20 or so messages screaming for Zeitgeist members and Peter Joseph to be murdered insane. Otherwise, your comments have gone thru. I do not promote any type of violence against the cult nor will I allow others to promote violence against the cult on this site as well. If you dont like it, dont comment here, fuck off, i care less.
3) I dont care who promotes RBE
What’s wrong with murder?
1. 1. “A zeitgeist coordinator and others”? That’s very vague. That cannot be substantiated as proof and therefore is hearsay. If it’s only about obtaining profits from the film series how come they’re all proudly put only and encouraged for FREE distribution.
You didn’t answer the question, why Peter Joseph would say “if you follow me we’re fucking doomed” if he wants followers. Typically I would think someone who wants to establish themselves as a leader would make sure the followers know who the leader is and fear the leader and give all praise to the leader. They would install fear into them so ensure all commands are followed without question. So do zeitgeist members fear peter? Is there a way to find out if members fear peter?
If the zeitgeist movement is completely about making money then how come they advocate the RBE idea? That is counter-productive towards their goal of making money if they mention the idea or reference the venus project.
2. Why is murder insane? Explain! I don’t like how I don’t have an explanation for why murder is insane.
3. You don’t? Good!
Do think the statement is true; “Sometimes there’s nothing at all that can explain a killer’s actions”.
Another thought that crossed my mind, in the ending credits for the zeitgeist film series doesn’t it say free distribution of these films is encouraged?
1. Peter Joseph Merola collects money for the 4th film with no transparency and who knows, he may already have enough money to make his retarded 4th film and scamming you all and also sell DVDs, so I guess he’s not all about RBE and he will always be the leader because you will wait for that new film to save TZM and pass out DVDS from the last 3 movies still as you try to convince us that the movies are not the movement when they are and are produced and directed by him. It’s commanded or else he wouldn’t have that retarded toolkit for everyone to spread the word with and people fear questioning why he’s not transparent like the Venus Project is when collecting money. It’s just Zeitgeist taboo. TZM advocates RBE while Peter Joseph Merola secretly collects his money and VTV, the wannabee Zeitgeist spokesman collects money from people on his radio show and tries to get people to feel sorry for him because he can’t afford cheetos.
2. Because we don’t need more Jared Lee Loughners. I’m not approving your shit either on my site and it’s the first time I had to actually censor shit on my site.
3. RBE reputation is done for, no matter who promotes it, people will remember TZM & TVP split and say it’s impossible. Y’all fucked up.
2. I still don’t have a good reason as to why murder is insane. WHY don’t we need more Jared Lee Loughners? It is not obvious to me.
3. the idea is done for because YOU say it’s done for. You don’t do a good job discouraging me.
1. I doubt the zeitgeist cult is based around making money for their apparent leader Peter Joseph. Observe the new york chapter video below. Notice in the opening sequence, on the notice board they’ve put up you can see a poster which says, “RBE: Resource-Based Economy”. So I’d say it’s a cult based around promoting the RBE idea without the consent of the venus project. They also steal the line “We’re mad as hell and we’re not going to take this anymore.” from the movie Network. There’s another video on youtube somewhere where zeit-cult members have a dvd spindle of moving forward and they’re giving them out for free. So the cult has little respect for copyright law without a doubt.
So I have to ask this question, why isn’t the cult trying to pull the zeitgeist films off the internet like scientology when they tried to censor that tom cruise video? If you don’t know, scientology tried to get a video designed only for their members about tom cruise pulled based on copyright grounds. So if the zeitgeist cult was based around making money from peter’s film series, those films being on the internet is a nightmare for TZM. I’m sure you didn’t pay $5 for moving forward from zeitgeistmovie.com, I didn’t.
Zeitgeist_NYC_l_Town_Hall_Meeting_l_7-23-2011
2. Does it make sense when Peter Joseph Merola says violence is bad ?
3. Oh let me provide a video:
1. LOLOLOLOLOLO
From the Venus Project recent Q&A, I think TVP is going to have a problem with anyone promoting a RBE [Resource-Based Economy] and a RBEM [what TZM calls it now standing for Resource-Based Economic Model] as there is suppose to be some difference between the two and Peter Joseph Merola thinks he has a model for it when he questions if Jacque Fresco even have blueprints to any real model or transition plan. Pushing something you think you know really comes off arrogant and cultic. He’s an egomaniac. Also, Peter Joseph Merola did have a fit about someone uploading the 3rd film on youtube:
It’s also funny too, before he was bitching about people uploading the 3rd film online, he was saying that he had files on them, shit, sounds like some Scientology to me.
2. I can have it both ways, the TZM promotes and does not promote violence? you reference Peter Joseph Merola when he’s wrong about everything?
3. Can’t watch these now because I don’t have the internet at home like a rich-fag.
1. I don’t think there’s a difference between RBE and RBEM. Different ways of saying the same thing. The RBE idea is still in development by many people. It’s sad so see people fighting with each other on the internet over things they’re meant to be working together on. Don’t have the proof here but peter apparently said to people to wait for him to upload the official version to youtube and then someone uploaded to youtube a dud version. All this doesn’t change the fact (that I’m pretty sure) in all the zeitgeist films it says in the credits “free distribution of this film is encouraged”. If the cult was all about making money from movies then how come TZM isn’t trying to pull moving forward from the global tzm youtube channel right now?
I can watch videos on the net only after downloading them can’t watch them here at a library. let me download these THEN I’ll comment on the videos you’ve referenced.
2. So TZM is an atheist doomsday cult, but when Peter Joseph Merola tries to make his own religion, he’s right about everything ? Lets be clear here, most of the shit he says is stupid, you know, technological unemployment is happening through fast food spots, promoting those as examples while claiming to be against obesity, saying he’s for the scientific method but worships magical robots, bloggers are paid agents of Cointelpro, which brings me to number 3.
HA!
1. “I don’t think there’s a difference between RBE and RBEM.”
I agree but I just provided another example of Peter Joseph Merola being a copycat and the Venus Project is pissed about it, you can give examples of artwork where Zeitards steal their shit all you want, but it doesn’t make Jacque Fresco or Roxanne Meadows any happier:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VEJ2SXKN
“The RBE idea is still in development by many people.”
So then TZM or TVP doesn’t have a solution then ? Good job discrediting the two at once.
“It’s sad so see people fighting with each other on the internet over things they’re meant to be working together on.”
You’re probably right, Peter Joseph Merola believes 9/11 was an inside job and Jacque Fresco believes in the Illuminati, I thought they were a perfect match:
http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/forum/641/jacque-fresco-believes-in-the-illuminati
“Don’t have the proof here but peter apparently said to people to wait for him to upload the official version to youtube and then someone uploaded to youtube a dud version.”
I don’t think there was any difference between the two, if so, please prove it to me, besides, people in TZM thought he did that shit for money purposes, like to help the sales of the pre-orders:
http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/01/26/zeitgeist-moving-forward-delayed
“If the cult was all about making money from movies then how come TZM isn’t trying to pull moving forward from the global tzm youtube channel right now?”
Because he gave up on the mirroring battle and caught fatigue. Also he had an ego issue and has to try to tell us that TZM is moving forward with how many views it has as if they are improving.
1st film: Supposedly 100,000,000 views
2nd film: Supposedly 50,000,000 views
3rd film: Almost 13,000,000 views
HOLY SHIT THEY ARE CHANGING THE WORLD!
So much for his ego statement saying that he was going to bring in millions of more people in TZM, when you look at their website now, it looks like they lost thousands, we probably should blame the split for that.
“This shit has to go” -Jacque Fresco
“I can watch videos on the net only after downloading them can’t watch them here at a library. let me download these THEN I’ll comment on the videos you’ve referenced.”
I’ll wait then.
3. From what I gathered by the “An_Open_Letter_to_The_Venus_Project_(Removed)” video, it was some person’s concerns. Let me quote my favourite bit.
“The moment you feel as though you know everything and no-one else can teach you anything you have intellectually and philosophically perished” Great quote!
If one person still promotes the idea of an RBE then it’s not “done for”. This is really nothing to do with the zeitgeist cult, or the venus project and that’s identified in the open letter video you linked where he says “I’m not saying this as a representative of TZM”.
rbe picture
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/341/p1010033ic.jpg/
This picture only promotes the RBE idea not it’s workings. It’s got zeitgeist websites on it but who cares if TZM has faded into obscurity? If TZM is a obvious scam intelligent people should instantly be able to sniff it out, Assuming not everyone is an idiot. It’s rule of thumb never to give money because of the general danger of feeding cults. Cults are not rare. It becomes your job to provide specific warnings about the cult’s nature or tactics, petty insults against people is irrelevant. Would you insult a member of scientology knowing they’re a victim of the cult? Information that establishes the
RBE idea would be sought after by someone who’s interested in the idea, zeitgeist or venus project websites. Why not engineer attractive information about the RBE idea to move people away from TZM? The RBE movement. (I find it funny that TVP said that TZM isn’t allowed to put TVP’s website next to TZM websites as if that would stop people from doing so because it doesn’t). More imporantly people should be questioning why evil cults are allowed to form in the first place!
Example: Scientology as idiotic as it is, the public allowed it to form and is still allowed to exist by us. To me we’re idiots because we’re allowing the continuation of scientology. Yet scientology wanted the video below to be pulled but it’s still up on youtube. So if there’s zeitgeist film marketing going on as you suspect, you should rejoice at the fact that the films are on the internet Why? It’s known that cults are movie companies proclaim that certain videos being on the internet is damaging to them. That’s good news for you. Plus the cult’s marketing campaign is business suicide because at the end of the films it says “free distribution of this film is encouraged”.
Scientology’s exclusive video
1. In the video “Zeitgeist_Moving_Forward_(More_like_Moonwalking_Backwards!!)” the first thing it says is “meet peter” and I said to myself I don’t care “who” peter is. Are you not more concerned with the what rather than the who? The what is the physical world and the who is the existence of a name on paper and the name of a person means nothing. Anonymous knows what I mean, that’s why they’re legion.
In the strawman theory it postulates that the name you see on any letter is a form of moral fraud, they’re silly bits of paper and you’re being fooled into thinking the letter is addressing you.
strawman video
You’re threatened by flagging? Seriously? You’ve got methods that circumvent flagging. What’s the problem? they’re hypocritical? isn’t everyone? I know I am. If you don’t like insincerity do actions that decrease insincerity in society. Do you support copyright law? Personally I hate copyright law more than anything. A person is forgetting when they claim copyright, the reality we exist in has already allowed for whatever combination you discover. Everything belongs to the Cosmos(TM). The behaviour that you display TZM doing is cult like, I’ve heard of this kind of thing before where they censor disagreement. Yet what is important to understand is how we allow cults to form. You can bash TZM yet that won’t stop cults from forming if we don’t understand how the public allows cults to form, they don’t just fall from the sky!
We’re responsible for any evil cult forming and the damage they do because we didn’t install enough preventative maintenance to stop the public from forming cults. In my opinion this is where too much freedom can be damaging. “If you’re looking for the guilty you need only look into a mirror.” – V from vendetta
The cult should not have censored any video by its critics that’s like scientology no doubt. To me it seems “bashing” them will make them feel as if they’re in the right, understanding what forms cults will give you credibility.
2. “Thou shalt continually reorient thyself and society to reduce reactionary propensities that lead to aberrated consequences such as stealing and murder.”
Note that he does’t really give a reason as to why murder is wrong, it is implied in the statement and the crowd laughs. He simply says society and you should be in a constant reorientation to reduce perceived negative actions, stealing and murder. At the beginning of zeitgeist the movie for example, it shows lots of explosions and violent music, implying to the viewer that the film maker thinks there’s something wrong with this as if it is self-evident. But to imply something is self-evident does not provide proof of anything. A calculator still proves 1+1=2, or would a scientist just say it’s self-evident that 1+1=2? The idea of “self-evident” is rubbish.
A summary response to the other response
I don’t think peter’s right about everything, technological unemployment is probably more prevalent in other industries than the service sector, I can’t really address “worships magical robots” because to worship magical robots would be like praying to your computer instead of actually using your keyboard to type. Computers aren’t magic are they? “Good job discrediting the two at once.” Thanks! Can’t download 81mb, don’t get enough time, I only am allowed 60mins while at the library and the broadband isn’t good enough to download that much in that amount of time, 37min left right now. “money purposes,” – funny how the zeitgeist films are against money if the goal is to make money. “he gave up on the mirroring battle and caught fatigue.” In the end though peter’s ego becomes irrelevant and as long as the video stays online it will damage their profits.
3. The video was dead on and I was not arguing that the person speaking was a representative even tho he admits that he’s active, I was just giving you the spirit of the time. From all the people that I debated, no one is really willing to do a test city to prove anyone wrong, no. Talking about RBE is not teaching, it’s believing.
But with the forums down now on the main site, things don’t seem so obvious about how corrupt they are or were no more, but luckily, where we saw problems, shit got archived on this site and other sites that have been showing the “workings”. I bash those who defend a pointless and potentially dangerous group [or groups] when they are given signs of it being cult and are rude to me and lets be clear, that happens all the time. I’m not special, if you oppose anything from TZM or TVP, you’re going to get the same treatment and because you oppose it, then it obviously means you haven’t researched RBE at all, oh, and the irony:
“The Zeitgeist Movement knows nothing” -Jacque Fresco
But I have no problem with debating or discussing tho.
The RBE term battle is something is just going to continue and I think more people are going to keep making videos [which did happen with the Zeitgeist Juggalo] like the one in this article pointing fingers at each other and never accomplishing anything. It seems like a never ending cycle. They both are going to try to out sale each other with T-SHIRTS and DVDs and keep giving false hope to those in either groups. Egos.
1. The video addressed the who and what, the leader and the movement. He runs the sites, creates the films, organizes the zeitgeist days, tells people to flag certain videos on command which he can still do in his facebook groups as the video shows, yes, he’s the leader.
When Zeitards say shit like a Resource-Based Economy is going to use “Science in Society”, they are committing a strawman there [theory], I mean, how do you think we got this far ? You can show that video to other people that like RBE tho.
Also I find flagging videos exposing TZM wrong, you don’t see the critics flagging their channels down, so yes, I see that as a problem. However, I would only blame myself for not speaking on something I see a lot of problems with:
“A time comes when silence is betrayal.” -Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
2. Good luck with that Zeitgeist Central Computer Religion Thing. Your library struggle doesn’t prove to me that a RBE can be real. You must like debunking yourself.
3. Talking about anything is believing I believe. Talking is not a form of observation and testing at all. The reason they don’t want to do a test city is because they proclaim they want it to be a “global system” not a country.
I bash those who defend censorship in any form. (see image)
http://media.portland.indymedia.org/images/2003/08/270885.jpg
I don’t oppose the idea of a RBE considering I’m locked out of doing a lot because I have little money, I do oppose cult behaviour, are the two different? I think so.
TZM knows nothing? they can only know nothing if they’re all dead. There’s no point in pointing fingers at each other, you get more done by working together. “It seems like a never ending cycle.” spot on. Well I’m not going to sell anything, I put up posters that promote the RBE idea for free. False hope? Is it better to have no hope? is complete apathy better?
1. The goal of focusing on insulting the name “peter” is meaningless. It doesn’t do anything. He’s the leader? if you establish that what’s next? assassinate him? That’ll solve the problem? What do you do from here after you establish him as the leader of TZM? Keep insulting him and hope he’ll back down?
If you gain enough support you should not fear flagging, if you’re telling the truth people will naturally want to mirror your videos.
2. you failed to prove why murder is wrong still. I like debunking myself because that is the most evil thing to do, watch me burn myself. At this time the money system whatever name you want to call it fails to provide my requirements. I’m going to promote different social system ideas where the basis of the system is to provide for people. Yeah you must be getting all your needs met, yet I’m not. Good luck with bashing people, but I can bash myself better than you can since I’m with myself more often than you.
RBE is just another belief system. That’s it. But hey, if you wish to promote that, that’s fine, I won’t flag your videos like TZM cultists do. You don’t have to worry about that. Everyone has a right to whatever religion they want to practice. From the image, I’m guessing you live in the United States and no, living in a monetary system isn’t cultic behavior. I do want to point out that I do have a problem when people try to shove their religion down people’s throat and since TZM is pushing this shit to be global, then the Zeitgeist Movement is violent. Maybe that’s why murder is wrong. If anything, being fed false hope and people realizing that what was fed to them was bullshit, then from that creating potential murderers, you know, like TZM wanting to kill 1,000 people, you’re heading down that path as James censors you. Damn TZM is dangerous.
I didn’t say my goal was to bash Peter Joseph Merola, please read the 2nd paragraph of my last post again and understand why I have a problem with people in the Zeitgeist cult telling me to do my research and read that Jacque Fresco quote again. Peter Joseph Merola is the leader tho and that’s established and it’s constantly said to those who are in denial of it as you seem to be. TZM is done for, why would anyone assassinate someone with debunked films and tells people while encouraging to spread the word that movies aren’t the movement with those DVDs ? That shit is just dishonest.
But don’t burn yourself, burn a blunt, relax, that’s how Kush do.
“Everyone has a right to whatever religion they want to practice.” – If you REALLY believed that you would never censor any of my other posts about killing. Look the the meaning of the word RELIGON and the word OPINION and you’ll see them to be similar.
“promoting” and “shove their religion down people’s throat” is the same thing it’s a matter of how you perceive. I could put up a RBE poster somewhere random and someone could perceive it as shoving religion down someone’s throat or promoting rbe. Recently I checked out some atheist billboards on youtube and the response from religious people was that they didn’t like atheists telling the religious that they did not have faith. Murder is wrong because it’s violent? what makes violence so wrong? if you want to know how the mind of a TZM works you should want to talk to me.
“Resource-Based Economy is going to use “Science in Society”, they are committing a strawman there” What? using science in society is the idea of a RBE. A strawman is a name on a piece of paper, look at the meet your strawman video again.
What’s wrong with doing research? Again? “The Zeitgeist Movement knows nothing” – if they all knew NOTHING they would be all DEAD. I think the movies ARE the movement when did I say they were not? they are obviously a promotional tool used my movement members to encourage people to join?
thanks for keeping the conversation going 5:26mins left at library.
Wait, I thought TZM was a non-violent movement and you want us to approve comments that contradict that ? SHAMEFULL! Like we’re going to approve those comments and have Zeitards lie to other Zeitards by saying we advocate violence by approving your bullshit as they use your comments as proof lol ? HA! You’re also saying that TZM is based on opinions and not the scientific method now ? LOL
If you feel violated tho, make a youtube video and see if it gets flagged by a critic or continue to post on VTV’s forum since V-RADIO is dying, that Thanksgiving special he had was fucking terrible. Please spam there [feed him] since the fat elf couldn’t afford to buy turkey, it won’t be throat shoving to him. If you have a problem with the quote from Jacque Fresco, then take your issues with him. But since TZM is the activist arm of nothing, I guess that would make them dead to your logic. So TZM is dead.
I watched the Strawman video and I’m not sure how that was suppose to change my perspective on names. I still recognize the leader of TZM as Peter Joseph Merola. I also didn’t say you said that the movies were not the movement, I was just giving an example of how retarded TZM is by denying that the films are the movement when saying they aren’t and why Peter Joseph Merola suffers from the stupid shit he says alone spreading the stupidity to his cult members.
Thanx for letting me know how retarded the mind of TZM is.
Do you claim TZM is a violent movement when they claim they’re a non-violent movement? You also have to classify any form of violence, some might classify insults as violence.
You still can’t provide a real reason as to why violence is wrong can you? “using science in society is the idea of a RBE” I wasn’t talking about TZM there. TZM is based on opinions? yes – an opinion is a view with no proof. They say you should look up what they reference in lectures otherwise everything is an opinion. Look up the meanings of the words opinion, fact, and religion.
I can’t make youtube videos, you need a mobile phone to make an account. I don’t have the money to get a mobile phone. This comes back to what I said before “I must be dead then yay!” How do you feel to know you’re talking with a corpse? If you feel this conversation is worth it, read it aloud and then put it up on youtube. Label it “conversation with a zeit-tard” I won’t mind. The quote from Fresco is a statement that you apparently believe in since you’re mentioning it, saying take it up with fresco avoids the contradiction, for them to know completely nothing they must be all dead.
I don’t listen to V-radio, I’m not concerned with his weight. I might have said this before but TZM does not care if TVP does not approve of them advocating the RBE idea isn’t that evident to you? They will keep advocating the RBE idea regardless of anything Fresco says. They have no concern for copyright. Do you think TZM will listen to anything Fresco has to say regarding not allowing them to advocate the RBE idea? They like the idea so they’ll promote it in a zeitgeist package or a venus project package.
“change my perspective on names” why do you think anonymous keeps calling itself legion? Let’s say Peter Joseph Merola gets assassinated right now. Do you think TZM would not establish a new leader? or would TZM be over with the death of it’s leader. I know scientology established a new leader after it’s founder died. When you say the movies are the movement I know what you mean, but logically a video is not a group of people.
In a sense the movies are the movement I agree, there are many videos that represent TZM not just peter’s movies though. That’s how you represent yourself on the internet through video! That’s why there’s a TZM youtube channel!
Example: This one is clearly made by a zeit-tard and therefore it represents the movement.
Meaning of the word strawman
1. A person used as a cover for some questionable activity
2. A weak or sham argument set up to be easily refuted
3. An effigy in the shape of a man to frighten birds away from seeds
An RBE is a strawman only in respect to how it will work, questions are needed to obtain more information on it’s workings. Yet how is simply promoting the idea a strawman? An RBE can only be argued for with complex reasoning otherwise it can be easily refuted so the person proposing how it would work needs to have a detailed understanding of it, the receiver also needs to have an ability to understand complex concepts otherwise the idea is not appreciated properly. I don’t have any understanding of how an RBE would work, I like the idea. Am I allowed to like the idea Dad? meaning three is irrelevant. Because I like the idea and I have no superhero Fresco abilities, do I know absolutely nothing? also I’d like to know what you think of the show Death Note (see image)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/193/24revivalavisnapshot001.jpg/
If you find this conversation interesting make sure to back it up. 11min left.
I already gave you many answers to your violence/murder question.
I’m saddened you don’t understand the contradictions of TZM, actions and rhetoric don’t match.
I didn’t know I was talking with someone from TZM that calls the Zeitgeist Movement a cult as well.
I don’t see a contradiction. If TZM is the activist arm of nothing, then they are dead.
I’m glad we agree that TZM are hypocrites for expressing opinions tho while at the same time trying to be for the scientific method.
I’m glad we agree that the movies are the movement.
No, I won’t make a video about you, I don’t see the purpose of that, just text would be boring.
Buy a computer, not a phone.
I don’t care about the RBE battle. I see TZM promote TVP on facebook still trying to be alive, but they are in denial.
Peter Joseph Merola won’t be assassinated, he’ll be working at fast food spots with VTV flipping burgers in the future I heard.
When they go away, maybe it’ll be called something else since people in TZM don’t like the Zeitgeist name.
Maybe if that happens, it won’t be a cult and be a RBE movement that you said and want to do a test city.
I guess technological unemployment is not real.
I thought all economies are based on resources.
I’m not your dad.
I didn’t know that there was a show called Death Note. I have no opinion on that.
“violence/murder question.” Violence is wrong because it’s hurtful, let’s end that topic.
“the Zeitgeist Movement a cult as well.” in some respects it’s a cult and in others it’s not. For example, I don’t take orders from peter or any other TZM members, I support the RBE idea and at the moment both TZM and TVP support that idea.
“people in TZM don’t like the Zeitgeist name.” Maybe it will be called something else, I support it being called the RBE movement why not? Since that is the idea and the value set put forward.
“I don’t see a contradiction. If TZM is the activist arm of nothing, then they are dead.” I suggest that they’re the activist arm of the venus project even if the venus project doesn’t want TZM to advocate them anymore. I’m not dead. Or is it a movement that advocates nothing, if they were a movement that advocated nothing then no-one would have any concern for TZM.
“So I heard.” lol
“I guess technological unemployment is not real.” Time will tell if technological unemployment is real or not. (In theory) the more technological progress happens the more human labour is not needed.
“I thought all economies are based on resources.” zeitgeist suggests that the money economy is based on the management of money and not the management of resources. Zeitgeist suggests if the “life sequence” was valued then there wouldn’t be poverty and the goal would be the sustaining human life over sustaining the profit margins of big corporations.
“I didn’t know that there was a show called Death Note”, if you are able to I suggest to check it out. To me it’s relevant because it’s about a kid who tries to build a loving culture on top of the blood of the evil. Like how we are trying to build a great country on top of the blood of terrorists.
“I’m not your dad.” I know lol.
overall I’ve attempted to address the following points in our discussions in a txt file (link below)
- Peter is the leader of TZM
- Zeitgeist Movies are the TZM
- TZM members know nothing
- TZM worships robots
- TZM is a cult
- TZM is a money making scheme
- RBE is a strawman
- TZM only knows opinions
please download this link.
http://www.zshare.net/download/9689361733dcc9b4/
No, I’m not downloading or watching anything else. TZM advocates nothing much anymore, so it’s dead.
“TZM advocates nothing much anymore, so it’s dead.” If TZM promoted nothing how can TZM have critics? It promotes “nothing much”. So stealing the RBE concept and re-naming it a RBEM becomes promoting completely nothing. How can a movement have any followers if the movement promotes NOTHING?
You’re criticising a group of people who promote nothing? Umm whoa! This is huge! That doesn’t make any sense. You’re not downloading or watching anything else? So if you don’t take in anymore information your beliefs cannot be influenced?
are you insane enough to say that you’re really talking with a corpse?
TZM is the activist arm of nothing now, nothing = dead, the dedicated Zeitards that think it’s alive and moving forward are in denial, you defend a dead cult [that you call a cult yourself] that likes loading the language. SHAMEFULL! You should spend your time mourning tho and move on with your life and find your dad.
You’re telling me I promote nothing? Well I can’t promote anything if you don’t download anything I link you now, you shut yourself off. I just said they stole the RBE concept and called it a RBEM and you conclude they now promote nothing? You make no sense. The dedicated think they’re alive when they’re dead? I have NO SHAME, can’t you tell? Mourning the dead is a waste of time. “find your dad” LOL! Where did that come from that one’s great. I get good lols from you, don’t you get good lols from talking to the dead?
The example was given before that the flat earth movement is dead, yet I argue if it still have at least one member then it’s still alive. TZM is dead only if it has ZERO support, then TZM can only promote NOTHING. As long as I’m alive, I support the RBE idea or RBEM idea. So your goal is to somehow have no-one supporting TZM to make it dead, calling it dead won’t make it dead, unless by your standards it does.
It’s like a kid who majors in Esperanto and thinks that people still speak Esperanto. Esperanto was an idealistic dream that died just as RBE/RBEM is a dead dream ideology. Sure there’s a few people who can speak Esperanto, but for the most part, it’s dead and no one gives a fuck about trying to revive it.
Stop trying to make us speak Esperanto and learn a language that works in Realworldistan.
I’m still not dead, I’m stil alive so I’m still promoting the RBE idea. It’s only dead if ZERO people support the idea. If I called you dead would you be dead? Because that’s what you’re doing, I can still feel my heart pumping blood around my body.
“Stop trying”? Oh so you don’t want to talk to zeit-tards you just want to make up your own mind about them without even talking to them, yeah you can really understand the cult members without talking to them at all. Oh you know EVERYTHING there is to know about them so there’s no reason to talk to cult members anymore. Just call them a racist term like zeit-tard. I would insult zeit-tards with you yet I’d be so insulting that my messages would be censored, that’s something I’ve seen on this blog.
“No one gives a fuck” So I must be no one, I must be dead is that your logic? I must be dead when I’m alive so it’s impossible for me to put up RBE posters for free around the place, It must be a ghost typing on this keyboard. I enjoy being wrong because I am evil, I enjoy being insane because I’m not restricted by the limitations of what you call your own sanity. Hail Chaos.
I think you mean you don’t give a fuck but what if I don’t care if you don’t give a fuck? fuck? fuck? fuck? fuck?
“Realworldistan” is not a word.
I just think it’s insane that people defend TZM as being alive since the Zeitgeist Movement lays in a coffin as it’s no longer the activist arm of the Venus Project. So you haven’t met my standards. Shit, you can promote a RBE, but no one is going to do nothing realistic, like try to do a test city, no, nothing real, if it was something real, the RBE or RBEM idea would be a live idea, but it isn’t. See, I’m not downloading or watching anything because TZM and TVP [people for it] repeat themselves too damn much, shit’s sad. Zeitard is a racist term ? WTF they are called Zeitards because they compare themselves to the Civil Rights Movement while having racists in them and defending one still lol. VOR is back online sadly and that’s just one of the many reasons why they are called that. I’m just glad I’m not your dad:
Oh BTW, it’s official:
http://directaction.org.au/issue37/what_is_the_zeitgeist_movement
R.I.P.
That’s right, dead-end.
@Mario, I think there’s a comedy sketch very similar to this conversation:
@Anonymous
Yea, you’re as dense as a brick of lead. Everything that was ever said to you went in one ear and out the other and you just repeat the same shit over and over again. You don’t have to be dead nor does there have to be no person supporting it for it to be dead. NAMbLA is dead, sure there’s 10 people who are trying to revive it, but it’s dead and irrelevant. Just like Esperanto, just like The Reform Party, TZM is dead. The world won’t speak Esperanto nor embrace an RBEM. Get over it, the movement is in it’s sunset. Was fun while it lasted. Now Thrive is the hip new conspiracy cult that’s all the rave with the nutters.
Or you can move back to Realworldistan (yes it is a real place also known as ‘reality’ [you know that thing you have to go to when you're not sleeping or watching cult videos]) and join a real political movement. Your choice.
@internetjimjesus and Mario Brotha
“Oh BTW, it’s official:” Oh BTW, in my mind there’s no such thing as “official”.
“went in one ear and out the other” You have to understand the reason why I do that, and it’s because I’m evil.
“conspiracy cult that’s all the rave with the nutters.” I don’t take that as an insult.
“join a real political movement” TZM hates money remember?
TZM is a violent movement. I know this because I’m a member. Spreading hate is the message of TZM, you have to accept this fact if you wish to understand TZM. If TZM was of no threat to anyone no one would bother with it, even if it’s a dead movement or not.
Dedicated members of TZM allowed to their own devices without the intrusion of moderately dedicated members will make TZM more dangerous than before. Why? Because I will ensure TZM is a violent movement. I’m deliberately malicious to people in general and other TZM members, because I get enjoyment from it.
This is why they need to be bashed. You must fight fire with fire. The reason why I spread hate is because when I was little on one of my single digit birthdays I wished for no one to exist besides myself. As far back as I can remember I’ve been evil, so that’s why TZM has greatly inspired me. If you want to understand TZM you need to keep reviewing what I say to you, not “stop trying”. Mario Brotha thanked me for continuing conversations no matter how irrational.
My recommendation is to stop talking to people if you want any of your thoughts about anything to remain static. Like a religious person in prayer. Now have I said all this before?
You are insane, please seek psychiatric help.
You think I’ll seek “psychiatric help” when I like the way I am now? lol. TZM is a blessing. Obviously you have no way you can really deal with members of TZM that are really insane, you just hope that you’re not really talking to a member of TZM who is really insane when you in fact call them insane! All you can do is call them zombies, insane, zeit-tard, zeit-fag, and that they do nothing and they’re dead. Calling me names will only encourage me to act as awful as you say TZM members are. you reap what you sow.
That’s right, I’m “dense as a brick of lead.” Meaning I will not listen to anyone because you treat TZM members with your rage, and not compassion and I will promote chaos with TZM. Because TZM embraces insanity just like you say we do.
You create monsters if you act monstrous towards people and I am now a proud monster all thanks to you
To quote zeitgeist critics “you stupid fuck”. “fuck you” “satan followers” “crazy people who pray to robots” “they’re a cult” “TZM wants to enslave people in a one world government”
I did enjoy your use of the word “please”. Yet no, I don’t need a hole in my wallet by paying for drugs that people will tell me I need. Why don’t you gain enough skill to deal psychiatric help? Do you want to help TZM or fight fire with fire?
Sure if TZM critics were homogeneous you could lump us all in one group, but we’re not, so yea. Take your meds, Laughner.
How do you know taking pills solve problems? “Laughner”? I am proud of being labeled a killer remember?Even if you’re all working separately the fact is the efforts combine into a force or a group of zeitgeist critics. In other words say you observe some scientology critics, patterns will emerge in the criticisms by different people because they are all talking about the same group. Scientology’s brainwashing techniques, internet censorship techniques, forcing you to cough up money and all the rest of it.
You observe many critics of the TZM cult and why would patterns not emerge? I didn’t say all critics were “homogeneous” I was pointing out the vicious insults by the critics of TZM. Pattern recognition. Do you want me to become “Laughner”? I mean you push someone by insulting them continuously, what’s the goal? Turn them into people who spout hate just like you? I can do that if you like. For example, I kill people in the name of our lord Peter Joseph, is that what you want to hear?
Just mentioning this as well, recently there was a youtube video put up where Occupy Venice asks TZM leader Peter Joseph what to do regarding activism. If his advice is appreciated then he will become leader of Occupy Venice. Peter Joseph is God!
To me critics of TZM must feel threatened by TZM because if they didn’t feel threatened then they would not speak about TZM at all. Imagine for example if Scientology was actually defeated somehow by anonymous, would there be a need for a campaign against Scientology after it had died? That’s why to me, the existence of this blog makes no sense if TZM is dead. Why talk about or criticise a dead movement? Isn’t that a waste of time? This is the beginning of bashing them in the public arena when you’ve won already? I mean I get enjoyment from killing people for Peter Joseph, so maybe your fun comes from mentally harassing people. Telling me to take pills doesn’t sound as thrilling as killing for the leader.
Occupy_Venice_Talks_with_The_Zeitgeist_Movement_LA
This blog was created well before the Zeitgeist Movement collapsed on its face. The bashing by the media has taken place countless times based on many critical reviews based on evidence presented by critics Mario Brother, Anticultist, and others. Many critics in fact have done a great job of solidifying Peter Josephs religion as fringe, we are quite proud of our collective efforts.
Threatened by the Zeitgeist Cult? Only in that they are capable of killing for their god Peter Joseph Merola.
ALSO…you comment here often, why dont you choose a name or identity to separate yourself from other anonymous comments?
“I’m not quite sure what the next step is.” -Peter Joseph Merola
Like I said, a dead-end, since you can’t handle figure of speech. It’s official in my mind.
He has to go to OWS meetings since his townhall meetings were failures. If OWS didn’t happen, TZM’s death would be more apparent. But maybe I’m wrong, let me know when people start dumping their money in the streets in the #OccupyWallStreet protests or already started doing so in real life.
“Peter Joseph is God!”
Also Jason lord is Jesus to you probably lol.
“I was pointing out the vicious insults by the critics of TZM. Pattern recognition.”
I watched that video you put up and Peter Joseph Merola still praises Jacque Fresco and since he does, a quote comes to my mind by him:
So why bitch about any critic not being polite ? It seems hypocritical. You definitely don’t come across as a sensitive person either. In every discussion or debate I’ve been in about this Zeitgeist shit, it isn’t mandatory for me to call someone a Zeitard, but I get provoked when they say something really stupid like by offending me saying I didn’t do my research, I don’t care about the world and etc. Even til this day, but I haven’t thought about burning things down or committing mass murder even when called names.
We didn’t create you, you decided to act like a retard and troll here as you shared your goal on the fat elf’s forum. You don’t have to feel threatened by us, especially by people who think the Zeitgeist Movement is dead.
@James Kush
“solidifying Peter Josephs religion as fringe” Are you happy you’ve won?
“they are capable of killing for their god Peter Joseph Merola.” You think I’m capable of killing for Peter Joseph Merola? Seriously? Well if you say so! Kill people in the name of Peter Joseph my God!
“choose a name” You seriously don’t know what anonymous is about do you? Remain anonymous and focus on the information at hand, names are pointless in the eyes of anonymous, that’s why they say they’re a LEGION!! I’m part of a entity larger than my single body, we are legion.
@Mario Brotha
“a dead-end” – Oh well then give up and seek hopelessness, don’t figure out what to do next or anything.
“But maybe I’m wrong,” Wow I’m impressed by that statement.
“Also Jason lord is Jesus to you probably lol.” If you say so, Jason lord is Jesus!
“So why bitch about any critic not being polite” To drown in insults doesn’t progress conversation. I was pointing out the insults that get you nowhere that completely halt conversation.
“isn’t mandatory for me to call someone a Zeitard?” Isn’t it mandatory for me to confirm what you say about zeit-tards that I’m a cold blooded killer on the loose for our god peter?
“I didn’t do my research” Still nothing wrong with doing research, what about if I said you should not do any research and blast completely unresearched information as truth?
“I don’t care about the world” To zeit-tards it’s a good thing if you care.
“We didn’t create you” If we don’t create each other how is it possible for us to communicate? I’m using words that you know so we can communicate that’s a creation through the ability to interact. If computers didn’t speak to each other at the smallest level ones and zeros they could not talk and create. Are you saying it’s impossible for others to be influenced by others? For example you say I pray to robots therefore I will say I pray to robots. “act like a retard” Everything is an act. We are all actors in a play we call life. “Troll”? You should be able to tell lies from the truth. I personally believe some lies can tell you the truth.
Killing people for my God Peter Joseph Merola gives me joy– Do you think I’m lying or telling you the truth. I mean you’ve confirmed that all zeit-tards pray to peter and will kill for him so do you think I will kill for peter? To know if people are telling you the truth or not you have to know what is true and what is not true. I could say a statement that I think is true yet how would you know if it’s still a lie. Some people can get real joy from killing for example. Taking pills solves problems magically for example. Check out Peter Popoff’s Miracle spring water, the gullibility of desperate humans is incredible and should be recognised.You used his last name, I’m impressed by that lol.
That’s because I don’t really care what his name is. The copy of “zeitgeist the movie” I have doesn’t mention “PJM” at all. Meaning it was made by anonymous. That was the intent anyway.
If you’re interested in what I really think God looks like take a look at the image below by the artist M.C. Escher. It’s of two hands coming out of a single page drawing each other. Why do I think it’s a good drawing of God? Well this drawing to me symbolises infinity very well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drawing_Hands
This is not a drawing of Peter Joseph Merola.
I know it isn’t lol, that’s why I said “if you’re interested in what I really think God really looks like.”
You already told us who your god was:
You can’t tell if I’m lying to you or not.
I find it amusing how you tell me what my God is soon after I reveal what I really think about God. Why do you refuse to tell me when I’m blatantly lying? Is it because you want to believe my lies about TZM members? Are you more comfortable with the idea that you’re talking with a psycho if you’re talking with a member of TZM?
For example.
There is no shred of sanity left in me, I kill people for PJM often, the goal of TZM is to make the world worse and TZM members don’t know that they’re pawns for PJM, TZM turns all its members into cold blooded killers, Destroy all people who love each other, All TZM members seek to make the world worse intentionally, All TZM members worship robots, All TZM members don’t do anything so they can’t be threatening, TZM has been exposed to be evil, Taking pills completely solves mental problems that’s why people who have mental problems need to keep buying pills from a drug store, James Kush is right when he says I’m capable of killing I don’t value other humans if they’re not in TZM, I visit the centre of black holes often, I’m right and everyone else is wrong, killing people can solve problems, insulting people makes me feel good, this statement is a lie.
Take this with a grain of salt, on the wikipedia page for Hitler’s psychological profile, he apparently believed there couldn’t be any good or value in his enemies which is how I think someone would mentally justify murder or hate towards others. TZM are a bunch of worthless human beings that need to be killed, they are all criminal scum (see image).
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/714/fwefeu.jpg/
https://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2556
You’re talking to yourself lol.
“Why do you refuse to tell me when I’m blatantly lying?”
But you said I can’t tell if you’re lying or not.
How do you know I wasn’t lying when I said “You can’t tell if I’m lying to you or not.”? It’s up to you to be able to detect what is true or not, as I said before if you don’t know what is true and what is false you won’t be able to tell when people are lying or not. Of course you might have the perspective that you want to remain delusional about certain things because of grudge reasons.
You do it again:
http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2569
“How do you know I wasn’t lying when I said “You can’t tell if I’m lying to you or not.”?”
Because instead of just admitting that Peter Joseph Merola is your god, you chose to insult me which you like doing but appear to be against, you know, like when you called me rich-fag, and now I’m a delusional person when you’re the one that said there was no shred of sanity in you left ? lol
“instead of just admitting that Peter Joseph Merola is your god” Let me spell it out for you, YOU want Peter Joseph Merola to be my God. I told you what I really think about God after lying to you then you tell me who my God is. “rich-fag” I thought you could take the fact that you have internet at home while I do not. Rich-fag is a throw-away line. “no shred of sanity in you left” Again I’m lying to you. who would say that they’re insane? If you’re insane you can’t say that you’re insane because you’re insane!
By the way have you checked out the show “Death Note” yet? It’s about a boy that wants to create a loving world on top of the blood of the evil, which is what TZM critics assert TZM is trying to do. It should be interesting to you.
Also if you’re interested in what creates cold blooded zeit-tard killers this video might interest you, Walt Disney’s Education for Death.
peter joseph merola wants to be your god. you help empower his god syndrome when you get off to his conspiracy porn. stop holding vigils for your dear leader.
I’m watching this Death Note show now, that’s some crazy shit right there. A high school student finding a book called Death Note and he puts people’s names in there and they die in some random way. I might watch the other episodes and see what happens since TZM is dead.
“Also if you’re interested in what creates cold blooded zeit-tard killers this video might interest you, Walt Disney’s Education for Death.”
I’ll watch this too, tho, it doesn’t surprise me Zeitards tried to use Disney to brainwash more people to join them:
“Let me spell it out for you”
I can spell, thanx tho.
“YOU want Peter Joseph Merola to be my God.”
I don’t, I think it’s common for Zeitards to worship Peter Joseph Merola in some way, what ? You don’t believe me ?
http://bit.ly/vnW11f
“Peter Joseph, a real savior”
-ExplicitContent81 3 years ago
A friend told me to tell you about this.
“I told you what I really think about God”
But you admit that you’re a liar, so when you say “really” after saying Peter Joseph Merola is your god many times, I think you’re lying. I thought I was detecting correctly.
“I thought you could take the fact that you have internet at home while I do not.”
A lot of middle class people have internet at home, but I don’t think they are “rich-fags”.
“Again I’m lying to you. who would say that they’re insane?”
Someone who lies too much and by accident slips up and tells the truth ? That’s called a Freudian slip. Ask voiceofracism467 about that.
@James Kush
“conspiracy porn”? I lol’d.
@ Mario brotha
“see what happens since TZM is dead.” The main point or question I want you to ask yourself is do you think he’ll be succeed in achieving his goal of creating a loving society on the blood of the evil? If that is TZM’s goal as some zeitgeist critics suggest, do you see ARMIES of zeit-tards walking down the streets killing off non-zeit-tards like the dark ages? “Zeitards tried to use Disney” It’s obvious that zeit-tards have no concern for copyright infringement.
“I don’t,” You don’t want Peter Fresco to be my God? Well then how come when I presented the drawing I think represents God better you claim that Peter Fresco is still my God? Wouldn’t you say “Wow glad you’ve found a God which you don’t need to pray to”
“worship” you have to define worship, do you see hoards of people bowing down to peter fresco like in the islamic tradition? Or people wearing peter fresco t-shirts, they wear t-shirts which have a picture of the earth on them with the message the zeitgeist movement I’m sure. Even if I’m a liar there still maybe signs of truth in what I say so it’s up to you to find them, unless people are perfect and are incapable of telling lies. “middle class” from my perspective the middle class are still rich-fags that’s just my view considering my social class. “Freudian slip” looked it up, I didn’t slip up I know when I think I’m lying and I think I’m telling the truth, however I try not to be egotistical and think I know everything. Honestly I want to know how you react to someone telling you that their character is of a character that you proclaim to be the typical zeit-tard. Don’t zeit-tards typically deny the claims you have of their personality?
All I can say is what’s the point of proving that TZM is an evil cult if you can’t influence it into a positive direction? But since it’s a dead movement as you proclaim you should rest easy. Insulting members by giving them some kind of label like zeit-tard does not improve the situation anymore than zeitgeist members calling critics trolls. The conversation comes to a standstill with members yelling “TROLL!” and critics yelling “ZEIT-TARD!”. Unless you perceive division and people having hateful arguments with each other as a good thing.
I won’t be back for at least 4 days, the library closes during the rubbish Christmas period, conversations will likely continue when it’s open again.
I’ll respond to your shit unapproved, until Kush presses the buttons.
Who knows what can happen in 2012. I remember a Zeitard put out a video called Happy New Fear or some shit and then like two weeks later, the whole Jared Lee Loughner thing happened. That’s odd, I can’t find it no more, I would show it to you, but I can’t find it. I think the guy who created it went by the name of Dennis Jakupovich aka Dennis Yee Avatar who calls himself the event and public Relation Coordinator for the Venus Project. If I’m wrong, I think James Kush will correct me. As TZM becomes more isolated while still being in denial of it’s death, who knows what will happen. I would keep an eye on the most dedicated tho.
“You don’t want Peter Fresco to be my God?”
Peter Fresco lol. Obviously I just think you’re wasting your time with this religion. Free yourself.
“Well then how come when I presented the drawing I think represents God better you claim that Peter Fresco is still my God?”
Because you like to bullshit by putting up random videos, so I thought you were doing the same thing like you do when you put up random pictures.
“worship” you have to define worship”
Calling Peter Joseph Merola Peter Fresco, god, savior, you’re doing it now, which is why I think you still worship Peter Joseph Merola as your god.
“Or people wearing peter fresco t-shirts”
There are people wearing Fresco shirts and since you worship Peter Fresco, you should know it’s shamefull.
“Even if I’m a liar there still maybe signs of truth in what I say so it’s up to you to find them”
I agree, I thought I was always detecting in some way.
“middle class” from my perspective the middle class are still rich-fags that’s just my view considering my social class.”
Insulting people by giving them some kind of label like richfag does not improve the situation anymore than TZM calling critics trolls. The conversation comes to a standstill with members yelling “RICHFAG!” and the middle class yelling “GET A JOB!”. Unless you perceive division and people having hateful arguments with each other as a good thing. You should ask who you call “richfag” for help instead of being miserable all your life, you should try not being so egotistical and think you know everything.
“All I can say is what’s the point of proving that TZM is an evil cult if you can’t influence it into a positive direction?”
Leaving it is the only positive direction, nothing good is going to come out of it by staying in it obviously, it’s dead.
“But since it’s a dead movement as you proclaim you should rest easy.”
I do. See you next time.
“video called Happy New Fear or some shit and then like two weeks later, the whole Jared Lee Loughner thing happened. That’s odd” It’s odd yet I don’t see there being a real conspiracy connection with that. I haven’t said this before but what seems to be propagated is the idea that “zeitgeist the movie” made “Jared Lee Loughner” into a killer. Was it Fox news that implied this then zeitgeist critics agreed. Well if that is the case point out the parts of “zeitgeist the movie” that would turn someone into a killer! Or is it more complicated than that? “I’ve seen horror movies like saw and worse (which I regret seeing” and they didn’t turn me into a killer and all zeitgeist 1 is a mono-tone guy giving a narration of certain things the film maker thinks are myths. lloyd Pye even says that you don’t have to go along with his point of view if you don’t want to.
“I would keep an eye on the most dedicated tho” Keep an eye on me and my evil activism for sure. I’ll give you updates of those evil Resource-based economy posters I’m putting up. I recently put up some posters which says “MONEY IS WAR” of course that’s my view rip down those posters if you like, but the dread is on you if you ignore what I’m saying when it’s true.
“Free yourself.” How? You need to pay for everything, to me the price tags on everything are prison bars.
“random pictures.” There’s no such thing as random, everything is connected. “Peter Fresco” that’s a joke christ! “I think you still worship Peter Joseph Merola” Really, well if I do what benefit do I get from praying to peter fresco? Like the people who pray to Jesus and get nothing what magical responses do you think I’m getting from this assumed prayer?
“There are people wearing Fresco shirts” I agree with you there totally, that’s shameful.
“Insulting people by giving them some kind of label like richfag does not improve the situation anymore than TZM calling critics trolls.” Holy shit! you’re passing my own logic back to me, that’s great I’m proud. The rich are victims too.
Assessing the situation properly and coming up with a soultion that makes everyone happy is best, yet even though it’s easy to say that statement it’s difficult to come up with a cause that will make everyone happy. Best to find out in an unbiased way what makes people happy and what will matter to people most, besides what they think is value. This would be figuring out a new set of values in other words we calculate what causes happiness and then focus energy into promoting that new set of values.
“you should try not being so egotistical and think you know everything.” I can only try, thanks for being helpful fellow human.
“by staying in it” Well staying in where? I don’t see zeitgeist movement members ever and unlike scientology the cult doesn’t require you to live with them. I’m not apart from family and all that because of the zeitgeist cult. If TZM is dead then I can’t be a member of TZM. How could I be?
“It’s odd yet I don’t see there being a real conspiracy connection with that.”
I didn’t say there was a conspiracy, tho, I do find it odd I can’t find that video anymore. TZM must feel responsible in some way about that Jared Lee Loughner shit.
“Keep an eye on me and my evil activism for sure.”
LOL
“How?”
Leaving TZM instead of thinking the Zeitgeist Movement can go to any positive direction, or yet be alive still.
“There’s no such thing as random, everything is connected.”
Not everything here is connected, you went off topic from the original article for an example.
“that’s a joke christ!”
A funny one.
“Really, well if I do what benefit do I get from praying to peter fresco?”
Nothing, it’s shamefull that you waste your time worshiping him, or them.
“Holy shit! you’re passing my own logic back to me, that’s great I’m proud.”
“Assessing the situation properly and coming up with a soultion that makes everyone happy is best, yet even though it’s easy to say that statement it’s difficult to come up with a cause that will make everyone happy. Best to find out in an unbiased way what makes people happy and what will matter to people most, besides what they think is value.”
An unbiased way, if you want to try this RBE shit out, then there should be a test city and I’m not convinced that 3D graphics from the Venus Project Design team is a test city, it’s not tangible and to call it a test city is biased.
“This would be figuring out a new set of values in other words we calculate what causes happiness and then focus energy into promoting that new set of values.”
I don’t see nothing new, as a matter of fact, I think a saw a tennis court in one of those 3D youtube videos, yuuuuuuuup!
http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=q_CHXOeD0-Q
-BobeyLeo 2 months ago
-thevenusprojectmedia 2 months ago
I thought the Venus Project was against sports ? They complain about advertisement and offer false advertisement too ? Wow, I’m experiencing a fucking value shift.
“feel responsible” This is my view yet all should feel responsible to an extent for the actions of a killer because it was the public that allowed a person to become so mentally sick that they became that way.
“Leaving TZM” I can’t physically leave TZM if you mean mentally you have to say what parts.
“Not everything here is connected” every atom is a part of this single reality, everything is connected.
“you went off topic” Please state where exactly you think I went off topic so I can clarify.
“Nothing, it’s shamefull that you waste your time worshiping him, or them.” I knew your response to that question and since I would know you get nothing from any kind of prayer to any kind of self proclaimed God what inclination do you get that I pray to worship Peter Fresco? God is omnipresent, not an entity! The religious seem to believe that you pray to God, yet their God can’t be as powerful as this reality since it is omnipresent (check out pictures of the cosmos, the amount of galaxies and stars present is almost uncountable I don’t think praying to galaxies or stars will do anything).
“then there should be a test city”, A massive amount of support would be required for a real life test city, the public would need to see value in the RBE proposal. Before all these circular cities would be built everywhere on the planet, it would need to be proven that it is viable. In other words, simply the idea of the RBE being possibly viable would need support to have the test city built. Yet it would need to be understood that even if it was a test city, a new set of social values would be needed for a city like that if the current cities we have are wasteful and emit pollution. Waste and pollution would need to be understood as totally unacceptable if humans are considering building these new cities.
““I heard Fresco insult a sport before.” Concerning sports the only sports I can really comment on would be sports that it is implied that getting hurt and being competitive to a high degree is part of the sport. Like boxing might not be acceptable in the future. All sports encourage competitiveness! Even chess! yet the concern might be to how far that competitiveness is taken when we say enough is enough, when we see someone pissing blood out their head because of the sport they play.
Playing tennis would be about mainly your skill rather than boxing where the idea is to knock the other player out.
“This is my view yet all should feel responsible to an extent”
There would be no point in youtube anymore.
“I can’t physically leave TZM”
TZM was only active online, now it’s dead, you could never leave it physically or have joined it that way.
“every atom is a part of this single reality”
This site doesn’t talk about atoms, you’re doing it again.
“I knew your response to that question”
LOL
“what inclination do you get that I pray to worship Peter Fresco?”
Why ask questions ? I thought you were psychic.
“A massive amount of support would be required for a real life test city”
But TZM is supposedly supported by 500,000 people.
“the public would need to see value in the RBE proposal.”
But Jacque Fresco, I mean, Jacque Joseph Merola said that Peter Fresco said 50 million people watched Zeitgeist Addendum, still, nothing:
http://bit.ly/sE6d82
“Before all these circular cities would be built everywhere on the planet, it would need to be proven that it is viable.”
Yeah and Zeitards would have to convince the global population that almost every building now would have to be taken down to be replaced with igloos, that would be funny to see people for TZM to begin to attempt.
“Waste and pollution would need to be understood as totally unacceptable”
Mind blowing.
“Playing tennis would be about mainly your skill”
All sports are about skill and injuries, tho, I don’t think you can hurt yourself playing Chess.
“There would be no point in youtube anymore.” Why wouldn’t there be a point to youtube if all felt responsible to an extent for the negative actions of others?
“Why ask questions ? I thought you were psychic.” I ask questions because I’m not psychic. No one is, pretending to be psychic is a magic trick.
“But TZM is supposedly supported by 500,000 people.” Okay the majority of people on this planet would be needed if we wanted to built these cities. 500,000 people is not the majority of people on this planet. It takes the majority to keep this social system going so you’d need the majority to say “no we’re not going to support this social system of money anymore”. If this social system that’s currently in operation is a deviation from natural law then we are going to have problems in the future and all TZM is saying is to steer clear of the environment and social train wreck we are going to have to assess the current value system and technical operations that are currently going on and change those into something more sustainable.
“Mind blowing.” for corporations that make money from producing waste it would be mind blowing.
“convince the global population” That’s basically TZM’s goal, convince the globe to build what looks like igloos yes.
“All sports are about skill and injuries, tho” Although it might be unsaid some sports to me are more about getting injured than others where the sport is taken too far. I mean someone with an insane mind might say war is a sport it’s not impossible.
Oh yeah, here’s some evil activism I’ve been getting up to in case you want to check up on me.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/26/kkdfvqs.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/grff.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/fdhd.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/403/fewf.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/151/kkijh.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/jgjdq.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/hbdt.jpg/
“Why wouldn’t there be a point to youtube if all felt responsible to an extent for the negative actions of others?”
A society where everyone is feeling guilty because someone chooses to be an asshole is retarded.
“Okay the majority of people on this planet would be needed if we wanted to built these cities.”
Good luck with that.
“Although it might be unsaid some sports to me are more about getting injured than others where the sport is taken too far.”
People for TZM don’t get that:
Like I said, wow, I’m experiencing a fucking value shift.
“A society where everyone is feeling guilty because someone chooses to be an asshole is retarded.” What? Why is caring retarded? Saying it’s retarded doesn’t explain why it’s retarded. Is it better to just say “oh well they choose to be an asshole and I could have done nothing to prevent their negative actions”?
“Good luck with that.” Thanks, well it’s either we become more sustainable and the human race lives on or all the human race dies with our faith in the marketplace.
“People for TZM don’t get that:” Downloading video at library, What don’t I get? I said to me some sports like boxing are about more about violence and injury than a test of skill (He’s got gloves and a helmet on so as to minimise injury, it’s an attempt to justify violence by calling it a sport.), just like bull-fighting, I consider horse racing to be completely corrupt as well. and other combat sports. It’s my view that a insane mind would could go so far to say that modern warfare is a sport.
“wow, I’m experiencing a fucking value shift.” Have fun staying the same as you are, don’t change your mind about anything.
I won’t change my mind about TZM or TVP, that’s for damn sure.
“I won’t change my mind about TZM or TVP, that’s for damn sure.” Having fun being a hard nut to crack?
“everyone feeling guilty because someone chooses to be an asshole is retarded.” (see image) Referring to James Kush’s statement how TZM members will apparently kill on command for their leader, Why should you or James have a problem with me becoming a murderer for Peter Fresco if feeling guilty or responsible for the negative actions of others is retarded? Saying “everyone feeling guilty” is retarded implies that a single person feeling guilty for someone’s negative actions is retarded. Why does this website exist if feeling responsible for the evil deeds TZM apparently commits is retarded? If TZM members become nut-jobs from watching zeitgeist films why bother even pointing that out if the act of pointing that out is “retarded”? If someone is a zeitgeist-nut-job what makes you so sure they’re mentally able to make healthy choice over an unhealthy one?
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/jnqw.jpg/
“People for TZM don’t get that:” Watched the video, now I see what you’re saying. Well I’m not every single member of TZM am I? Is it not evident that I would disagree essentially with this video?
It’s possible for me to disagree with a video made by TZM when I’m in TZM. There’s a video made by a zeitgeist debunker on youtube which I like, I’ll link it below. The very ending of the video proposes that it’s up to you to find out what the truth is and to stay balanced. Such a great message to me, in other words try to find pieces of the truth in all media and know how to find truth. To quote the video “It’s very important that you stay balanced. The primary foundation of what you are is love and that’s what they don’t want you to know. And the easiest way (to lead you astray) is to come in the name of love and slowly tear you away from it, redefine it, to ensnare you in the web.”
“People for TZM” Are you implying all of the members of TZM “don’t get that” because of this video? I would say “some people for TZM don’t get that” so as not to imply all, then I’d agree with you.
If we live in a culture that thinks violence is acceptable in some regards why would it not be expected that TZM would show signs of corrupt behaviour? Were you expecting TZM (a movement about changing values) to be completely immune to the current values?
If you were completely content with your life you would find it unnecessary to talk to me, this website is still screaming “I have a problem with TZM”. Can’t you accept that some people might not be content with the current state of affairs? If it was only your view that mattered then you wouldn’t bother talking to others on the internet at all. You might not like what I’m doing regarding TZM activism, if that’s so what are you going to do to stop me? Some people might want to make software where built into it efficient construction techniques are taken into account, if you don’t like it how are you going to stop them? What so you wouldn’t want help from someone who has the knowledge concerning how to design things?
All I’m saying is you’re going to have difficulty adjusting if the zeitgeist ideology holds water and you believe in an out of date social system. If you think this social system is not out of date and you think I’m wasting my time with the resource-based economy idea why not try to convince me how great the current social system is to try to get me behind it, sell money to me. Saying RBE has been proven wrong, or it’s stupid etcetera, doesn’t leave me with anything. If you can’t dazzle members into supporting a different ideology, the RBE idea will continue to have support. Oh that’s right everything I’m saying is void because you’ve already won because the RBE idea has so little support that you don’t feel threatened by it anymore right?
I invite you to keep a close eye on me.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/543/poswk.jpg/
“Having fun being a hard nut to crack?”
You’re so violent lol.
As far as people in real life that choose to be an asshole, clearly he or she is the asshole for not having self-control and seeking help, but if people are close or familiar to or with that person can pick up signs that the person is fucking nuts and might become more crazy, then, yes, they should feel responsible to an extent, but the whole world over an asshole ? No.
I just had a problem when you said “all”. If you’re saying the people that learn about murder committed [any harmful crime for that matter] as they are trying to figure out who he or she is should feel guilty over something they were not aware of was about to happen, then that is retarded. If everyone was psychic on Earth, then I would agree with you. You told me you didn’t like psychics and use psychic logic on me. You remind me of the Zeitard on facebook that told me this movie was about a RBE:
“Well I’m not every single member of TZM am I?”
I never said that.
“Is it not evident that I would disagree essentially with this video?”
You should be able to just say you disagree with the video then.
“It’s possible for me to disagree with a video made by TZM when I’m in TZM.”
Then supporters of TZM should tell others for it to correct what they are doing wrong according to their ideology, but I don’t see this happening, when I do, see it attempted that is, those people that point out flaws usually become ridiculed, then be ex-members or become love-bombed by the hierarchy of the cult.
“There’s a video made by a zeitgeist debunker on youtube which I like, I’ll link it below.”
LOL
“The very ending of the video proposes that it’s up to you to find out what the truth is and to stay balanced.”
But you made up your mind as much as I have.
“The primary foundation of what you are is love and that’s what they don’t want you to know.”
I guess that’s another reason why Jacque Joseph Merola bitchslapped Peter Fresco:
“Are you implying all of the members of TZM “don’t get that” because of this video?”
It looks like it, well, the active ones, I saw no comments like Jim’s pointing out the hypocrisy or suggesting to take it down because of the fucking up the value shift thing. Also, I think this issue in particular is being discussed about for the first time off the comment page from youtube, so I’m left to assume that.
“why would it not be expected that TZM would show signs of corrupt behaviour?”
I don’t think practicing what they preach should be hard.
“Were you expecting TZM (a movement about changing values) to be completely immune to the current values?”
At least try. Damn.
“You might not like what I’m doing regarding TZM activism”
The pictures you shown me previously, I don’t care for.
“What so you wouldn’t want help from someone who has the knowledge concerning how to design things?”
You’re talking with someone who doesn’t give a shit about RBE and like how he lives and Zeitards don’t really want to do a test city, they just want more films and continue to bullshit with themselves as they struggle to be alive. Even if you were that special someone that wanted to do a test city and didn’t care about more films, you would have to deal with the rest of them which is impossible to do, meaning, to make them agree with what you and critics are saying, do a test city and prove its feasibility.
“If you were completely content with your life you would find it unnecessary to talk to me”
But I have to answer your questions.
“Saying RBE has been proven wrong, or it’s stupid etcetera, doesn’t leave me with anything.”
If I did your thinking for you, then I would be a fascist, just ask Jacque Joseph Merola. So when Zeitards get mad at me and ask me for my solutions, then I lose, because to them, I become a dictator. I want people to think for themselves.
“Oh that’s right everything I’m saying is void because you’ve already won because the RBE idea has so little support that you don’t feel threatened by it anymore right?”
YUUUUP!
“I invite you to keep a close eye on me.”
The readers will too.
“is the asshole for not having self-control” they’re an asshole for being mentally sick, you’d make a caring doctor. “seeking help,” what if they don’t have enough money to seek help, doctors cost money. “but the whole world over an asshole ? No.” We are all part of a social organisation on one planet we call Earth. Have fun denying that. We should all advocate the relevant help needed in areas required to put pressure on those that deny it because some believe some are not deserving because of social status, race, etc.
“If everyone was psychic on Earth, then I would agree with you.” It’s impossible for people to become psychic, we can only become more aware about how human behaviour works. To label people assholes for asshole behaviour does not get to the reason why people do things. Labeling them asshole to me is saying “this person had the chance and they blew it now they are undeserving of anymore love.” Therefore making them into a more of a rotten person.
“Zeitard on facebook that told me this movie was about a RBE:” I can’t download that it’s 207mb, point to a relevant part of it.
“You should be able to just say you disagree with the video then.” I disagree with it.
“Then supporters of TZM should tell others for it to correct what they are doing wrong according to their ideology” Good point there. “but I don’t see this happening” Don’t like it? Make a video and make it happen.
“become ridiculed, then be ex-members or become love-bombed by the hierarchy of the cult.” If what you’re saying is true I agree with you, being ridiculed for speaking the truth isn’t good.
“bitchslapped Peter Fresco:” I’ll download video then comment on it.
“I don’t think practicing what they preach should be hard.” Educate them on methods concerning how to practice what they preach.
“It looks like it, well, the active ones,” Educate them on this hypocrisy.
“At least try. Damn.” Again, try to provide us with wisdom.
“Zeitards don’t really want to do a test city” I really want a test city, I actually want out of this current social organisation even if some hanger-ons might “just want more films”. “do a test city and prove its feasibility.” There’s no way a test city can even happen without a extreme amount of support.” Jacque Peter Fresco claims that when society’s breakdown is more prevalent then people might start thinking about different social organisation methods. “you would have to deal with the rest of them which is impossible to do” Impossible? That sounds more like a difficult challenge I’m up for! Zeitgeist is attempting to say that this societal breakdown is coming and if people don’t consider this societal breakdown situation then humanity will fall. It’s a game basically, humanity lives on is a wining situation and humanity dying is a losing situation. Why? Because it’s fun to play life like a game.
“then I would be a fascist,” I agree.
“for my solutions” attempt to offer wisdom, asking you for a complete solution to all our social problems is unreasonable if you’re unable to. “I want people to think for themselves.” Good.
“YUUUUP!” lol. “the readers will too”? No problem with that! Anything I miss highlight please.
“what if they don’t have enough money to seek help, doctors cost money.”
Family and friends can help him or her.
“Labeling them asshole to me is saying “this person had the chance and they blew it now they are undeserving of anymore love.”
They had the chance, then threw it away, if that’s not an asshole, then I don’t know what is.
“Don’t like it? Make a video and make it happen.”
Blogsites are enough I think.
“Jacque Peter Fresco”
AHHHHH! LOL
“it’s fun to play life like a game.”
That reminds me, I don’t understand why advocates for TZM send me game requests to play Mafia Wars on facebook. I don’t know if they do that anymore, because I deleted all of them from my profile, I wasn’t experiencing a value shift.
“10_JF_Fresco_on_Love.flv” to quote Jacque Peter Fresco “But what happens to love when people split up, bingo it’s hate” Why do people split up? difference of opinion? Opinion isn’t founded on proof or certainty though. What causes hate? How do you prevent hate?
“There’s really no love as a rule” If loving environments create loving people and insufficient environments towards human requirements creates violent people should love be “a rule” or a way of life? Paper proclamations that say we should love each other will not cause us to love each other. Only a situation that allows love sufficiency will cause it to happen, like how our current situation causes people to hate each other. I don’t need to hold up a sign that attempts to encourage people to hate each other if that’s what the situation already encourages. “Americans should stop loving terrorists!”.
“But actually men have more in common with men”, that depends on personality, if the personailities overlap it is then possible for a man to have things in common with a woman. “What girls talk about doesn’t interest most men” That is dependant on the current supposed values, according to the current values men are only meant to talk to men about A,B, and C, while with women, women should only talk with women about X,Y and Z. In episodes of Poker games I’ve seen for example there’s been mostly men sitting around a Poker table while you’ll have a woman that only gives an introduction. I’ve seen some women players yet it seems to be mainly men.
My opinion of that would be because the male gender is currently orientated to be more powerful than the female gender, imagine if Joe Pesci’s character in Casino was played by a woman? In the natural world in some areas the male is designed as more powerful, yet also the opposite is true, because the female gender of some spiders is superior in strength (if I’m not mistaken).
Our focus should be on on how well we can work together instead of which gender being supposedly superior, as anonymous says we are legion.
“What are children for?” The values of this culture say that you must get married have kids etc, the american dream point of view. I think people will still have children in the future yet if our technology improves to such an extent to increase the life-span of people further, the frequency of birth might decrease if the goal is of a steady-state economy instead of the infinite growth perspective that zeitgeist claims we have on a planet with finite resources. Children would need to be planned instead of the religious idea that having heaps of christian children without consequence is a good idea.
“the primary foundation of what you are is love” What is meant by that statement to me is that you cannot live without receiving and giving love, love is a human requirement.
“What if the family or friends don’t have enough money to pay for a doctor for you?”
I said they can help them.
“Or you’ve had some dispute where family or friends refuse to help?”
You should apologize to your dad for whatever you did if you need love again.
“I said they can help them.” How? with insufficent experience and knowledge?
“You should apologize to your dad for whatever you did.” apology refused, then what?
Help costs money, it’s not profitable to help people. Do people have the right to refuse help? What makes people want to refuse help? it isn’t good business to help people for free when they want to be helped. Help costs money. (fucked up last post by the way was meant to post it here)
“How?”
Well if friends aren’t in the same position as in the person trying to not be an asshole, then seeking the person’s help might work.
“insufficent experience”
Ah yes, then ask your mom, uncle, aunt, grandpa, grandma, you know, other elders in the family since you don’t like your dad.
“Help costs money, it’s not profitable to help people.”
I didn’t know family and friends saw it that way.
“Do people have the right to refuse help?”
If they don’t need it.
“What makes people want to refuse help?”
Ego or they really don’t need it and are living fine, like me.
“I didn’t know family and friends saw it that way.” Is it possible? If it’s possible then there is something wrong with the current values that are practiced.
“What makes people want to refuse help? Ego.” Then we are dealing with an ego problem with society if the situation we are talking about can be allowed to come into play.
“other elders” commonly people don’t have the experience required to help you if you have some kind of medical condition.
“since you don’t like your dad.” I never said that lol.
—the following is the other message I posted—
“I said they can help them.” How can family or friends help if they do not have the required knowledge or equipment to help?
Love costs money, family, friends, doctor, anyone. Speaking from a monetary point of view no one wants to help you for nothing, it’s not profitable. How would it be profitable for a doctor or a family member to continually help you with some problem without you paying them for their service. Servicing (not curing) people is a good business, selling people pills, selling people medical treatments etc.
“You should apologize to your dad for whatever you did if you need love again.” It’s not “if you need” if human beings require love. It’s simply “you need.” Say members of your family don’t accept your apology and your friends won’t help you and you don’t have the money to pay for help for a doctor? This is the hole I’m talking about with the system, there can be a hole where people can slip through where there is no compassion awaiting them.
—the following is the other message I posted—
“Family and friends can help him or her.” What if the family or friends don’t have enough money to pay for a doctor for you? Or you’ve had some dispute where family or friends refuse to help? Since there is a scarce supply of money moving around the economy someone will come up short, help doesn’t come free. Even if you have an abundant supply of money moving around an economy scarcity is maintained through the inflation effect. There was this advertisement I saw once which was laughable where the woman claimed you could work from home and potentially earn an infinite amount of money. An infinite amount of money would mean an infinite inflation effect rendering all dollars in regards to having faith in money worthless, We’ve seen the results of hyper-inflation have you seen this picture somewhere on the internet where there’s a russian woman burning money instead of fire wood because of inflation?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_g_qXXK7DGE4/SNNdzTw1SyI/AAAAAAAAEiA/hVki7PpsnfY/s400/Inflation1923.jpg
“They had the chance, then threw it away, if that’s not an asshole, then I don’t know what is.” it’s a sign of mental sickness to refuse help, to think that you don’t deserve to be loved for the actions you’ve done.
End of evangelion:
“Gendo Ikari: I didn’t believe that anyone could love me. I never deserved to be loved”
Refusing required help only turns someone into a more of a rotten person, someone would only do that if they’re either not informed and they think medical help is the spawn of the devil, or they think they don’t deserve it. I think it was James Gilligan who said to never give up on people. He was featured in moving forward and he claims he tried to help people with mental problems who were in the prison system, to reduce the violence from prisoners.
“Blogsites are enough I think.” Good work then, if they’re not effective enough do a video. Everyone likes a nice youtube video.
“TZM send me game requests” sounds like they wanted social interaction with you, (even if it was facebook).
“Is it possible?”
I don’t think friends and families ask themselves in their heads if helping a potential asshole [not wanting to be one] close to them personally will be profitable.
“How can family or friends help if they do not have the required knowledge or equipment to help?”
They might have enough knowledge to refer them to sites, places and programs for free or cheap services if no one in their family or their friends are experts in the medical field.
“Refusing required help only turns someone into a more of a rotten person”
That’s there choice if they needed it and refused it, to keep bothering that person would be harassment.
“It’s not “if you need” if human beings require love.”
You need more love then.
“Gendo Ikari: I didn’t believe that anyone could love me. I never deserved to be loved”
This person probably wouldn’t feel loved because this person asked for help and no one helped.
“Refusing required help only turns someone into a more of a rotten person, someone would only do that if they’re either not informed”
It’s unlikely that the person would refuse help if he or she needed it after being informed about it.
“close to them personally will be profitable.” I said if it’s possible or not, if or not the current social system allows for such a situation. You may have heard of the phrase “blood is thicker than water” I think that phrase is false and all people should help all people. Considering it is a monetary loss to help, this is why it could discourage people from helping each other. You may have heard of the film “the reality of me” a pro-zeitgeist film, there was an interesting suggestion it made where it said that although prisoners may be locked up they have a bed, food and sometimes even entertainment, yet the homeless which are in need of help do not get that.
“free or cheap services” Because human life isn’t valuable enough so you only get the “cheap services” when they don’t have the money to pay for the expensive services that might fix a person right up.
“to keep bothering that person would be harassment.” to keep trying to give required help when a person is in need is harassment? That’s interesting, the ego problem a person must obtain to refuse valid help should be understood.
“this person asked for help” if this society’s scarce on love yet high on the idea of items giving happiness instead would show that “no one helping” is a gaping hole in the system we live in.
“It’s unlikely that the person would refuse help if he or she needed it after being informed about it.” agree there.
In case you’re wondering I have no employment so I do live my parents, but my dad likes the zeit-crap I come up with. This poster in particular, the one with the guys shaking hands when they look like they’re going to beat the crap out of each other with baseball bats.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/grff.jpg/
Anymore concerns you have about TZM are welcomed.
“You may have heard of the phrase “blood is thicker than water”
Correct.
“Considering it is a monetary loss to help, this is why it could discourage people from helping each other.”
Parents [before they were] were aware of “monetary loss” before they even had kids, so if they saw their children that needed help and they asked for it, then I think blood will always be thicker than water unless you manage to piss off everyone in your family, even then, if you were struggling, some if not all would more likely put that grudge aside.
“You may have heard of the film “the reality of me” a pro-zeitgeist film”
I haven’t, I think it’s funny that Zeitards bitch about being called a “documentary movement” when they try to make their own films. They don’t want to do a test city and prove anyone wrong, no, just more films, like I said.
“there was an interesting suggestion it made where it said that although prisoners may be locked up they have a bed, food and sometimes even entertainment, yet the homeless which are in need of help do not get that.”
There are shelters.
“Because human life isn’t valuable enough so you only get the “cheap services”
It’s better than nothing.
“to keep trying to give required help when a person is in need is harassment? That’s interesting”
What you think may be required help, may not be required help to the person who doesn’t need it. Even if it was a person who you thought was an asshole, I think the most you can do is open your arms with help. At least with the offer, I would like to think it’s somewhat reducing the chances of that someone doing something harmful to himself or herself or to someone else. When you say “required”, it sounds as if you absolutely know what you are talking about as in what you think that person needs regarding to a specific medical treatment, as someone who admits in having a certificate in nothing, this scares me, it also makes TZM sounds forceful [a group that turned into a cult with no credentials except the wannabee NASA employee nut] and to promote force, to me, would produce violence, that is my concern:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LXyFHjXxEHU/TjLn_mm8otI/AAAAAAAAADc/9OwKl5mQcEY/s1600/isitwrongrbeems.png
“if this society’s scarce on love”
It can only be scarce if the person chooses it to make it scarce, therefore, turning into an asshole.
“before they even had kids” This is an interesting suggestion, parents know that it’s a monetary loss to help or have kids yet decide to anyway. Contradicting the idea that making money equals success. “their children” Parents own their children? Children are the property of the adults (trade mark all rights reserved). Consider children are owned by nature, this is if we require natural products of this Earth to be alive such as air.
“some if not all would more likely put that grudge aside.” If someone is completely conditioned with the idea that making money equals success then those people would be less likely to help, family or friend. It’s a matter of degree.
“They don’t want to do a test city and prove anyone wrong” Some might just want to watch videos about green cities, not just the venus project, yet some like me might advocate them being actually being built. See what kind of green city will work based on what we know about construction. It is a “documentary movement” to an extent yes.
“There are shelters.” Whew, so there’s no-one left behind now? such as people in need of clean water, food, shelter, and clothing on this planet? Great!
“It’s better than nothing.” It’s still insulting.
“What you think may be required help,” Imagine there’s someone does a free scientific assessment of your body and they find things wrong with it, yet to fix the things they find wrong requires you to cough up big time. (The assessment would probably cost money too lol.)
“may not be required help to the person who doesn’t need it.” That’s a matter of how educated the person concerning how the body works, you don’t know if the body is sick if you don’t know it’s normal status.
“I think the most you can do is open your arms with help” What about making convincing suggestions of why the help would be a good idea?
““required”, it sounds as if you absolutely know what you are talking about as in what you think that person needs regarding to a specific medical treatment.”
I admit I do not, it’s a hypothetical, do you absolutely know when people need help regarding a specific medical treatment? I’m only making the assumption of if help is required in a situation such as if you get cancer. It could be that the person thinks “oh I’ve got cancer but I don’t need help” yet that would be a sick thought process considering the lack of value for the person’s own life, making people unhappy around them.
“certificate in nothing, this scares me,” Measure what I say to medical science and then come at me with what parts I’m saying which are wrong. We are all born with a certificate in nothing. Unless you want to remain scared.
“TZM sounds forceful” Reality is forceful in some ways, you’re forced to breathe air. When science is right on certain things, there is a sense of concrete-ness. The only way to prove that concrete-ness wrong is though more outrageous proof.
Society’s turned into a massive “asshole” from where I stand. Because to me we choose to make love scarce.
Now to respond to the forum post you gave me
“Would it be wrong it force people into an RBE” Yes, you need to prove it works through science if these green cities are a sicentific discovery.
Would it be wrong to force an advocate of a RBE to live in a money system? Yes, force is wrong, the merit of actions someone’s trying to get someone to do should be logical therefore force should not be required.
Sometimes you force say a child to do something they might want to do for their own good yet that would be because a child is not more sane yet to understand their reality more. Adults are meant to give children wisdom, (meant!!)
“No amount of debate” In science there is no “debate” there is what works and what does not work. No debate only design, our values need to be well designed just like our buildings.
“Parents own their children?”
The mother and father are responsible for their well-being, I wouldn’t say they own them.
“Consider children are owned by nature”
You may want to believe that nature is a dictatorship as you learn from watching Peter Joseph Merola’s third film, but I disagree.
“Whew”
The monetary system offers shelters, TZM advocates offers films.
“That’s a matter of how educated the person concerning how the body works”
Insulting them will definitely make them reject you.
“What about making convincing suggestions of why the help would be a good idea?”
I agree, but if the person still doesn’t want your help, then I think it’s safe to say that at the end of the conversation that you’re always available if they change their minds.
“I admit I do not, it’s a hypothetical, do you absolutely know when people need help regarding a specific medical treatment?”
I would if I been thru the same exact health problems the person is going thru and I’m sure you would say the same, if not exact, then recommend medicine or treatment or doctors or clinics that you had or went to in the past to better your health again.
This is why we need specialists tho.
“Measure what I say to medical science and then come at me”
I’ll come to you if I have questions, not at you.
“We are all born with a certificate in nothing.”
I was born with a birth certificate.
“Reality is forceful in some ways, you’re forced to breathe air.”
Being alive is so horrible lol.
“Society’s turned into a massive “asshole” from where I stand.”
Not everyone is in prison.
“are responsible for their well-being” If it’s okay for a mom and dad to feel responsible for the well-being of a child what makes it not okay for everyone to feel responsible for the well-being of that child?
“You may want to believe that nature is a dictatorship, but I disagree.” Explain the disagreement I’m very interested. If it’s true that “nature is a dictatorship” then that idea is not Peter Joseph Merola’s property it’s a scientific fact.
At the end of my last post you don’t deny my statement “you’re forced to breathe air”. Don’t drink water? you die, Don’t eat food? you die, don’t get the required love early on in life? you die. Try to exist in a space’s vacuum? you die. Exposed to a radiation hazard? Likely to die. Don’t get sunlight? you’ll be sick, and so on.
“The monetary system offers shelters, TZM advocates offers films.” That’s a very black and white view, you’re not taking into account the fact that I advocate the social values of a Resource-Based economy not the films, the idea that values need to be well designed like a well designed building. In other words if you understand what is being commnicated in zeit-crap media, then you should be able to spew that crap out without the help of the films. As I said it’s a movie movement only to an extent, do you think everyone in TZM needs to reference Moving Forward? Or do they have the knowledge to know whether or not what the films are saying is true or not?
“Insulting them will definitely make them reject you.” What if the person being insulted wants to know the thought process that made a person think they need to be insulting?
“I agree, but if the person still doesn’t want your help, then I think it’s safe to say that at the end of the conversation that you’re always available if they change their minds.” Agreement here.
“to better your health again.” This is gaining knowledge without the certificates to say that you have the knowledge.
“I was born with a birth certificate.” A birth certificate came out of your mom’s cunt along with you??
“Being alive is so horrible lol.” Depends where you are, if the air is clean then there’s no problem.
“Not everyone is in prison.” I feel like I am.
“If it’s okay for a mom and dad to feel responsible for the well-being of a child”
Of their child, I don’t think parents can be parents of kids all over the world, parents raising their own children is parents raising all children around the world.
“Explain the disagreement I’m very interested.”
I don’t call my mom a dictator, so I’m not sure why I would call mother nature that.
“As I said it’s a movie movement only to an extent, do you think everyone in TZM needs to reference Moving Forward?”
When I debate someone new in the TZM cult and tell them why I disagree with it, you’ll be surprised how many times I’m told to watch Z3, even more insulting, again.
“What if the person being insulted”
A person insulted usually cut the conversation short or else they don’t feel insulted.
“A birth certificate came out of your mom’s cunt along with you??”
Why are you stunned ? You were born the same way obviously, but I guess with a blank paper as you say.
“Depends where you are, if the air is clean then there’s no problem.”
Pokemon masks are cool, ask Peter Fresco.
“I feel like I am.”
Wait, I thought living with your parents was a RBE:
“I don’t think parents can be parents of kids all over the world” Under what conditions does not allow that situation and what conditions allow that situation? If you get any educational value out of anything I say you’ve gained wisdom through the internet
“I don’t call my mom a dictator, so I’m not sure why I would call mother nature that.” Maths is a dictatorship then? Forget the word “Mother”.
“you’ll be surprised how many times I’m told to watch Z3, even more insulting, again.” Well to be educated in terms of gaining knowledge you need to know how something is true and be able to demostrate it, a single fucking film can NEVER contain the whole truth considering how massive the cosmos is.
“A person insulted usually cut the conversation short” To resist insult and realise where insults come from is growing pains in terms of conversations. Like those conversations between the media and scientology where people from scientology really get angry and leave.
“Why are you stunned?” Typically a baby comes out of a cunt, not a piece of paper with the newborn baby.
“Pokemon masks are cool, ask Peter Fresco.” You’re referring to that radio show where he says is a funny manner to not care about the sources of our air and wear “Pokemon gas masks”.
“Wait, I thought living with your parents was a RBE:” Well no, global RBE is not in operation as of this time. The family unit is a business. I’ve told both my parents is a funny manner, we are running a fucking business here no room for love go out there and make money!
downloading video give time to respond to it.
“Under what conditions does not allow that situation and what conditions allow that situation?”
People who can adopt and aren’t ready to.
“Maths is a dictatorship then?”
If you suck at it I guess lol. You might feel that way.
“Typically a baby comes out of a cunt, not a piece of paper with the newborn baby.”
Huh ?
See, it doesn’t only happen to you.
“Maths is a dictatorship If you suck at it I guess lol. You might feel that way.”
When nature is a dictatorship or Maths is a dictatorship is said what is meant by that is even the experts at Maths or realising the laws of nature DO NOT rise above those discovered laws. Realising the laws of nature can be liberating I agree, but you can not rise above them, in this current society TZM proposes that the laws are nature are ignored and if ignored nature will naturally punish us simply because of the way our reality works. Like jumping off a cliff and ignoring the law of gravity.
“People who can adopt and aren’t ready to.” The reason why loving care may not be provided at all or a low amount provided in foster care might be because of how uncaring the social system is to its people.
“See, it doesn’t only happen to you.” Are you confusing comedy with reality??
Now to respond to the other youtube video you linked me.
“The_World_as_a_Home_Analogy.flv” From what I gathered this is a method of explaining the Resource-Based economy value set. The individual home or household needs to work together in many ways to continue the existence of the family dispite the bickering, and as the video says the family recognises that required togetherness without the need for government intervention.
The train of thought is simply expanded to the whole planet. The human family will be forced to one day work together if we want the continuation of more generations, scientific progress, technological progress, space exploration, sea exploration, and the rest of it. The world’s state of war, and the competition based economic system that is currently in place will inevitability decrease life. (That’s why I made the poster “money is war”).
Regarding war, recently there was a interesting news story that aired about the apparent standoff America and China are having, they were showing the massive government spending on America’s and China’s military. The interviewees came to the conclusion that nothing good would come of a massive war between America and China. How could it? Also in the news recently there was an American sniper who killed, I think it was 255 iraqi people, and of course he rationalised his murders by describing the iraqi people to the equivalent of rubbish people and the U.S forces as his buddies. Of course he’s praised by being given medels and being dubbed “the legend” while civilian murderers are put behind bars. What’s also interesting was the idea that the soldiers apparently paint the symbol from Marvel’s comic book series The Punisher on their weapons, tanks etc.
To get an idea of what The Punisher is like let me give you an example; after The Punisher killed a major enemy he had on his hitlist he says the following, “Don’t smile much, don’t smile ever, yet if I did, this would be one of those moments.”
So here’s the question, does justifiying insulting labels such as zeit-tarded, sinner, asshole, shit pipe, rubbish people, fuckhead, open the gateway to justifiying war?
More back on topic, I understand the analogy although I consider all families currently to be corporations.
There’s a good Shaun Micallef comedy sketch where there’s a little girl in the family who’s apparently not pulling her weight so they kick her out into the pouring rain. It’s brutal lol.
I consider all names like JOHN SMITH to be corporations too and the anonymous human being is forced to breathe life into these empty and unloving corporate entities. JOHN SMITH, WALT DISNEY, KFC, APPLE, MICROSOFT, THE FAMILY, etc. Corporations without us can’t do anything, they can only exist on paper according to the strawman theory.
Anymore concerns about TZM? We recently covered TZM members not being knowledgable because they only reference Moving Forward without presenting good arguments themselves, a way to address that is by saying “can you present arguments for the RBE values without just telling me to watch Moving Forward?” and we covered TZM being apparently being forceful, whereby some elements of reality are actually forceful. But here’s a question what if the reason why TZM has cult members is because our culture is just a massive cult?
“When nature is a dictatorship”
Regarding health, we covered, I think, everyone’s health is different, what you’re allergic to is something I’m not, maybe, for an example, if nature was a dictatorship, everyone would react to everything that nature provided the exact same way, and this isn’t reality.
“The reason why loving care may not be provided at all or a low amount provided in foster care might be because of how uncaring the social system is to its people.”
TZM seems to shit on marriage tho, so I don’t see how there would be abundant love all of the sudden in a RBE, you say that the human family should come together, but I don’t see it happening with those type of values. More back on topic, what if a woman has unprotected sex and later got pregnant ? I would rather see her put her child up for adoption [if not wanting to be a parent] instead of considering abortion, but of course, it’s always the woman’s right to do as she chooses and I think these type of issues will still exist in a Resource-Based Economy where love is questioned even more.
“Are you confusing comedy with reality??”
I guess you can retract saying we were all born with a “certificate in nothing” [still a certificate] if you’re now saying you find it typical to be born without paper.
“The_World_as_a_Home_Analogy.flv”
Yeah, I get it, I wasn’t sure if you did which is why I provided the video when you said you felt that you were living in a prison living with your parents.
“more generations, scientific progress, technological progress, space exploration, sea exploration, and the rest of it.”
I don’t think none of that has paused because of the monetary system.
“So here’s the question, does justifiying insulting labels such as zeit-tarded, sinner, asshole, shit pipe, rubbish people, fuckhead, open the gateway to justifiying war?”
I don’t think WW3 will start because of that, if there is a WW3.
“There’s a good Shaun Micallef comedy sketch where there’s a little girl in the family who’s apparently not pulling her weight so they kick her out into the pouring rain. It’s brutal lol.”
Oh a comedy sketch, if that happened in real life, that would be brutal, I agree.
“We recently covered TZM members not being knowledgable because they only reference Moving Forward without presenting good arguments themselves, a way to address that is by saying “can you present arguments for the RBE values without just telling me to watch Moving Forward?”
I’ve tried something like that before and I was called a troll, it doesn’t work with Zeitards.
“and we covered TZM being apparently being forceful”
Thanx for seeing how retarded that forum post was.
“But here’s a question what if the reason why TZM has cult members is because our culture is just a massive cult?”
I don’t see how that’s possible.
“I think, everyone’s health is different, what you’re allergic to is something I’m not, maybe, for an example, if nature was a dictatorship, everyone would react to everything that nature provided the exact same way, and this isn’t reality.”
To the people who have an allergic reaction to something, this is the law of their body that they must obey. Yet there are things that everyone is damaged by such as toxic or deadly substances. In that way nature is a dictatorship. Therefore the society must organise itself in such a way that the human being is not exposed to such substances.
http://www.epa.gov/kidshometour/toxic.htm
“TZM seems to shit on marriage tho,” Religious proposes that marriage in the eyes of god is perfect and holy. There’s a quote from the bible which says something to the effect of if a woman has sex before marriage she should be killed.
bible quote found!
A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deut 22:13-21)
what if a woman has unprotected sex and later got pregnant? Good education about sex, it should not be considered a sin to have protected sex. What’s required to have protected sex should be made for people to use to prevent unprotected sex.
“I think these type of issues will still exist in a Resource-Based Economy where love is questioned even more.” They might yes, what’s important is that children are planned more so what they need to live is made for them to use. I don’t like the idea of a child being born with their future being uncertain in this social system considering what they need to live is not supplied it is serviced instead meaning you need the cash if you want those children from the result of unprotected sex to live.
“I guess you can retract saying we were all born with a “certificate in nothing” [still a certificate] if you’re now saying you find it typical to be born without paper.” When I say “certificate in nothing” I’m talking about how we basically know nothing besides the inbuilt responses of the amygdala.
“I don’t think none of that has paused because of the monetary system.” Why? There’s money in selling products, not money in advancing techology to such an extent that the marketplace becomes obsolete.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11734909
when we’re buying supercomputers the size of sugar cubes how is the marketplace going to grip us by telling us we need to go out there into the work force and make money?
“I don’t think WW3 will start because of that, if there is a WW3.” If there is a world war 3 either side will say the other side is the bad guys.
“I’ve tried something like that before and I was called a troll, it doesn’t work with Zeitards.” Comes back to what I said when I said critics yelling “zeit-tard” and members calling critics “troll”. It’s disappointing to say the least, well all you can say is the you’re still open to their debates as long as they don’t stand to completely stand on top of Moving Forward. A whole thinking process should not just be based on just the zeitgeist film series if in fact the resource-based economy values are a value set based on science. There should be many angles a person can come from to prove the validity of social values based on science.
“Thanx for seeing how retarded that forum post was.” No problem!
“I don’t see how that’s possible.” Think about the nature of cults and apply that thinking to a whole country, Worship the american flag and its prime president, or King, or Queen. There might be a american pride day where you celebrate the pride of being american and the pride of valuing the american dream value. You might make statues of it’s leaders like mount rushmore, celebrating the idea of leaders. Stuff like that.
Soon to give you an update concerning more evil activism!
“Therefore the society must organise itself in such a way that the human being is not exposed to such substances.”
I don’t think everyone lives like the Oblongs. If nature was a dictatorship, it would be impossible to already escape from the toxic and deadly substances you’re talking about. Then what you’re left with are the little things, like allergies.
“Religious proposes that marriage in the eyes of god is perfect and holy.”
Atheists get married too, so I don’t understand your point and I think some of our values continue to change, RBE isn’t needed for that. I doubt everyone for TZM is not married.
“I don’t like the idea of a child being born with their future being uncertain in this social system considering what they need to live is not supplied it is serviced instead meaning you need the cash”
The cash makes them think tho and I would think a RBE, where everything is free would leave room for more irresponsibility [people being more careless] leaving more children in foster care, stuff like that. Clinics and some schools that teach sex education [I think] give kids free condoms and with all the education out there about sex currently in the monetary system, we still have those type of issues, so I just don’t see how everything would still be special in a Resource-Based Economy regarding love.
“when we’re buying supercomputers the size of sugar cubes”
I don’t know why anyone would want to do that, I don’t want to use a microscope to use any kind of computer, that’s stupid, you’ll strain your eyes and shit.
“in fact the resource-based economy values are a value set based on science.”
If only we had scientists in the monetary system.
“Think about the nature of cults and apply that thinking to a whole country”
Not every country is North Korea.
“Worship the american flag”
Peter Fresco likes to be worshiped with a Zeitgeist flag in the background and pretending to meet Obama.
“There might be a american pride day”
ZDAY.
“You might make statues of it’s leaders”
Jacque Joseph Merola stone chia heads.
“King, or Queen”
Peter Fresco thinks he’s MLK lol.
“Soon to give you an update concerning more evil activism!”
Try not contradicting yourself by the ideology you’re defending thru the “activism”, I know that shit must be hard to do.
“Oblongs” Looked it up adult swim show looks people people deformed by living near toxic stuff. If everyone did live like the Oblongs we might be deformed by them. Apparently corporations releasing toxic substances into the air has a very slow but measurable affect on our health. Increasing birth defects and cancer rate slowly but surely , this is of course according to the zeitgeist orientation video, take it with a grain of salt and find out the truth yourself. Not just what you think.
It’s like the analogy where if you put a frog in boiling water it’ll jump out immediately but if you have the frog in cold water and heat it slowly it won’t jump out.
“Atheists get married too” I know! isn’t that amusing considering marriage is a religious idea? “I doubt everyone for TZM is not married.” I agree, I don’t know if this is part of the zeitgeist through process but I think in time the religious idea of marriage being perfect in the eyes of God will be seen to be flawed. The difference between love and marriage to me is that in marriage you feel the need to own or be extremely protective of your partner, and in love you trust the public and are not so protective. So it’s a matter of how much the public trusts itself intimately.
“where everything is free would leave room for more irresponsibility” You have to define where the irresponsibility would be, making food abundant enough to supply food through hydroponic vertical farming means I think would be responsible.
Of course people being responsibe and wise with resources whether scarce or abundant is something that should be taught in order to manage ourselves the best we can.
“leaving more children in foster care, stuff like that” If the public is educated and trustworthy what’s the matter with children having many parents even if they’re not of complete blood relation. There was a movie with Kevin Spacey called K-PAX and yet he played an Alien in it, and he talked about in the society he came from that he was taken are of by many parents and the whole race was seen as a single family.
“be special in a Resource-Based Economy regarding love.” With a society dedicated to scientific inquiry we would want to find out more soultions to our problems. I don’t have all the answers to our problems, but I don’t think a society with it’s social values being based on science and it’s people being dedicated towards finding answers to problems is a bad idea.
To me the money system avoids solving problems considering the value set is based around selling goods and services, not solving problems. Selling guns, selling porn, selling food, selling basically everything is the name of the game it seems to me and not solving problems with society.
“I don’t know why anyone would want to do that, I don’t want to use a microscope to use any kind of computer, that’s stupid, you’ll strain your eyes and shit.”
If a supercomputer in the future will be the size of a sugar cube, how powerful will our normal sized computers be? I wouldn’t be using a computer the size of a sugar cube either.
“If only we had scientists in the monetary system.” We do, but to me we’re based in a system around selling products. There was a movie I watched, can’t remember the name now, where they where doing science yet it was sheltered around the idea of making money. The question was how much money can we make from discovering information about this law of nature?
“Not every country is North Korea.” I agree, it’s a matter of degree.
“Zeitgeist flag” What does the zeitgeist flag represent? Take this media project picture for example.
http://zeitgeistmediaproject.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2138:naturedictatorship&catid=5:visualmedia&Itemid=2
“Jacque Joseph Merola stone chia heads.” True there, be lucky the statues aren’t larger!
“ZDAY.” correct again!
“I know that shit must be hard to do.” The zeitgeist movement needs critics.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/opfgvstyv.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/kwefv.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/kjhnhb.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/535/jnmhugexa.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/717/jbvct.jpg/
“Increasing birth defects and cancer rate slowly but surely”
Cancer rates decreasing:
http://www.cdc.gov/Features/dsCancerAnnualReport
If they go hand in hand, as I think it does, then this is probably true with birth defects as well, slowly but surely.
“The difference between love and marriage”
People have to be in love first before they get married I thought.
“marriage you feel the need to own or be extremely protective of your partner”
I didn’t know women could buy men and men could buy women. I also I see nothing wrong with people in a relationship [married or not] being protective of each other, or else they wouldn’t be partners.
“making food abundant enough to supply food through hydroponic vertical farming means I think would be responsible.”
Vertical farming in itself is impossible:
http://www.planetizen.com/node/44049
“If the public is educated and trustworthy what’s the matter with children having many parents even if they’re not of complete blood relation.”
Those are called guardians or godparents, etc.
“how powerful will our normal sized computers be?”
I don’t know, I would think for those two different type of computers, it would require different wiring, chips, metal, etc.
“We do”
Whew.
“but”
Damn it.
“to me we’re based in a system around selling products.”
That’s what we do in a monetary system, we sell the value of our labor as a means of making money to buy what we need and want. We can have both a monetary system with scientists with it obviously.
“What does the zeitgeist flag represent?”
Patriotism to their cult and it shows them being racist to every other organization that is for sustainability, done more charity than them, and etc.
This is of course according to the zeitgeist orientation guide, take it with a grain of salt and find out the truth yourself. Not just what you think.
“Cancer rates decreasing:”
That’s good news but, if there is a correlation between corporations giving off polution and social health it should be identified.
“People have to be in love first before they get married I thought.” The dictionary meaning of the word marriage in some points means simply to be together. So when people say they’re against gay marriage they could say they’re against gay people being together completely. Other meanings relate to the religious idea of people being tied together in a church under the eyes of God.
“being protective of each other” To me that protectiveness says to me “some people are just bad people” avoiding of course the reasons as to why a person would be a bad person. There is a sense of untrustworthiness that some people might have of certain members of the public so some people might feel to be protective is required. Why are some people not worth trust?
“Vertical farming in itself is impossible:” well is hydroponics completely impossible then?
“Those are called guardians or godparents, etc.” Great!
“I don’t know, I would think for those two different type of computers, it would require different wiring, chips, metal, etc.”
I’m only making the suggestion that if in the future we are able to build supercomputers the size of sugar cubes then the overall power of computers will increase through sharing CPU usage time over the internet. I also suggest that maybe your CPU will be one of these sugar cubes, meaning a typical normal computer will be as powerful as supercomputers of today.
“That’s what we do in a monetary system, we sell the value of our labor as a means of making money to buy what we need and want. We can have both a monetary system with scientists with it obviously.”
What will the value of our mental labour be in the future with the increasing power of computers? What will be the value of human labour be when automation starts taking more of a grip on the marketplace? Computers and automation might start challenging the beliefs in the marketplace (see image.)
http://www.jmorganmarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/automation.JPG
This also doesn’t supply people with what they require considering there’s a limited amount of momey in an economy at any one time. Someone’s going to come up short.
“Patriotism to their cult and it shows them being racist to every other organization that is for sustainability, done more charity than them, and etc.”
We’re trying to represent social values that are more sustainable. When organisations advocate sustainability are they touching the social values of society which deem wastefulness, irresponsible behaviour, and uncaring behaviour as okay?
Or are organisations that advocate sustainability in some area have some affiliation with a political party, a platform based on psychological conflict. I’ve seen the way some political rooms are designed and it seems they’re designed for an argument to take place in the room considered it’s been divided into two sections, the left vs. the right. How can you come to concrete scientific fact in such a setting where it’s designed for argument to take place?
“done more charity” Look here, there’s not enough money to save the planet, keep shaking that donation bucket.
“This is of course according to the zeitgeist orientation guide” Where in the orientation guide is strong patriotism advocated?
“The dictionary meaning of the word marriage in some points means simply to be together.”
I never met a couple that got married to simply be together. If they were not together, they wouldn’t be a couple in the first place.
“So when people say they’re against gay marriage they could say they’re against gay people being together completely.”
I didn’t know you had empathy for gay couples, since you like calling people richfags.
“Other meanings relate to the religious idea of people being tied together in a church under the eyes of God.”
I think it’s cool the idea of marriage is evolving in different directions.
“To me that protectiveness says to me “some people are just bad people”
Oh you meant insecurities. If they are over-protective in that sense, then usually its guilt showing that they cheated on people before and are afraid of being cheated on, if they weren’t insecure and did cheat on someone in the past, then I assume that person matured.
“well is hydroponics completely impossible then?”
But I don’t want to eat lettuce for the rest of my life in a Lettuce-Based Economy.
“What will the value of our mental labour be in the future with the increasing power of computers?”
I guess the same value when the first computers came out when people probably thought they were going to be replaced all of the sudden.
“What will be the value of human labour be when automation starts taking more of a grip on the marketplace?”
50 years ago, we didn’t see the new jobs [different occupations] that we have now and I think we’ll experience the same thing in the next half of century and people will continue to buy the newest gadgets of that time like how we’re buying these fancy hitech products that are coming out today, you know what, I’ll let Ray Kurzweil explain it better:
“When organisations advocate sustainability are they touching the social values of society which deem wastefulness”
Yes organizations do talk about recycling and say littering is bad.
“irresponsible behaviour”
I think there are organizations that talk about cause and effect.
“uncaring behaviour as okay?”
No I don’t think other organizations say being uncaring is okay.
“Or are organisations that advocate sustainability in some area have some affiliation with a political party”
TZM or TVP on the surface may look political-free, but it isn’t. The Venus Project is trying out politics with Scott Keller [someone I almost forgot about] and Zeitgeist Movement has a spokesman that’s a fat elf and tried to spread awareness to the Boston Tea Party which ended up badly when he was called out as a neo-marxist:
http://bostontea.us/node/880
“a platform based on psychological conflict.”
I’m just not seeing how TZM is special.
“How can you come to concrete scientific fact in such a setting where it’s designed for argument to take place?”
There would be nothing to argue about if all scientific facts were concrete and I thought TZM advocated an emergent society.
“keep shaking that donation bucket.”
I don’t, Peter Fresco does for Z4, TVP does for their motion picture film, the fat elf does to buy a new computer, and Matt, the famous Zeitard OWS star ask for money too when he goes outside:
“Where in the orientation guide is strong patriotism advocated?”
That is funny, they say flags represent patriotic racism, but practice the opposite and you call critics racist lol.
“Yeah progress does happen in the monetary system.”
zeitgeist proposes that the idea of just selling goods and services gets in the way of social progress though.
“I never met a couple that got married to simply be together.”? Typically when people want to be together they want to carry out the apparent tradition of getting married to say that they are in love, yet the tradition does not reflect reality since God doesn’t care what we do. The love has meaning. I was talking from the dictionary meaning’s perspective, not people’s meanings of words.
“I didn’t know you had empathy for gay couples, since you like calling people richfags.” We addressed the label rich-fag before do we need to go through it again?
“I think it’s cool the idea of marriage is evolving in different directions.” I think it’d deluded into many different directions. People who think marriage is holy or perfect are in for wake up calls.
“then usually its guilt showing that they cheated on people” Why should people show guilt for “cheating”?
“being cheated on” I recently went through this topic in another discussion, I suggest the fear is of the person now not feeling loved since they broke the holy marriage vows. So a strong sense of love should be established for the society to give to itself.
“But I don’t want to eat lettuce for the rest of my life in a Lettuce-Based Economy.” I address this later on in this post read on.
“I guess the same value when the first computers came out when people probably thought they were going to be replaced all of the sudden.”
At the moment I we can set computers to keep doing calculations day and right without it needing any sleep. In the areas of maths computers beat me hardcore.
50 years ago, we didn’t see the new jobs [different occupations] that we have now and I think we’ll experience the same thing in the next half of century and people will continue to buy the newest gadgets of that time like how we’re buying these fancy hitech products that are coming out today, you know what, I’ll let Ray Kurzweil explain it better:
The newest gadgets make life easier, certain mental labour tasks when assigned to machines do some tasks better than humans, I suggest in terms of mental and human labour machines will continue to impress us. (let me download that video and I’ll respond to it).
“Yes organizations do talk about recycling and say littering is bad.” Maybe more organisations should come together to push positivity. Yet do they address the positive monetary conditions that are gains from damaging human health?
“called out as a neo-marxist:” Being political-anything will not work since it’s basis is on argument not coming to agreement through science.
“There would be nothing to argue about if all scientific facts were concrete and I thought TZM advocated an emergent society.”
emergent society means “evolution of knowledge” meaning as we gain more and more facts about reality we are able to do more. From the invention of the hammer to the nail-gun. To the apparent invention of simply building houses without humans. What we know now about our reality through science is only concrete until we find better understandings about reality.
“I don’t, Peter Fresco does for Z4, TVP does for their motion picture film, the fat elf does to buy a new computer, and Matt, the famous Zeitard OWS star ask for money too when he goes outside:” Then they’re all in for a shock when we find out there isn’t enough money to save the planet. As zeitgeist itself says there is a scarce amount of money in supply and all loans must be repaid with interest meaning bankruptcy is inevitable.
“That is funny, they say flags represent patriotic racism, but practice the opposite and you call critics racist lol.”
A flag is just a picture, some red and white lines with a blue square with stars in it. It means nothing. A flag should represent something that actually reflects reality, you get nothing from some random patterns arranged into a picture printed onto a flag.
The following post I wrote without being at the library, more food for thought.
Addressing “Cancer rates decreasing:” again, zeitgeist actually claims “world cancer toll is on the rise, says research” in Joseph Merola Peter’s lecture “From Consequences to Solutions” at a townhall meeting. “World Health Organisation reports 7.5m annual death toll around the world is on the rise as populations increase.” (at about 20 minutes and 3 seconds in).
But any article that interferes too much with your beliefs is unworthy of review because it must be tainted by zeitgeist right?
I want to bring this topic into the conversation; Monetary economics is apparently reffered to as a branch of social sciences. Now when I think of the term “social science” I would say the meaning of that term would be the study of human interaction. What is and what isn’t healthy human interaction and what surroundings enable healthy human interaction, but is monetary economics concerned with human beings interacting in a healthy manner?
Monetary economics is concerned with the buying and selling of goods and services based on the assumption that buying and selling makes people happy. If this is not the assumption why is a social system in place that isn’t concerned whether or not people are happy?
From my perspective, buying and selling goods and services doesn’t make me happy making me an exception to the belief put forth by monetary economics.
There’s a part in “the Legend of Zelda – Ocarina of Time” which I think demonstrates the belief system of the free market perfectly. There’s a ghost shop in the game where there’s a freak with a red eye who buys and sells evil ghosts. The first time you see him in the game he proclaims that he “only hopes the world will get worse” so his evil ghost business will improve.
There’s a similar part in the movie “Lord of War” where the gun salesman is complaining about the peace talks happening that will consequently prevent his customers from buying more of his guns. A disregard for life in favour of money.
“Learning history and science fuckin’ wait, knowing that, will that put food on my plate?” Insane clown possie.
I hope you feel uncomfortable with the fact that I see value in you. You need to put a lot of energy into the belief that the zeitgeist movement is a group full of evil people, including myself. Do you believe I’m deliberately evil? (this is my interpretation of the way critics label TZM as a cult. Why else would critics label TZM a cult?) Do you believe scientologists are evil at heart? If you don’t believe TZM members are deliberately evil, why would you want to be evil to them? I’m talking of course about the most savage insults from critcs such as the slogan of this website; “we’re going to bash the zeitgeist movement in the public arena and this is just the start of it.” Having fun hating cults yet? How can you tell if someone is lying when they say they’re okay with giving hate to a group of people? Well you take a measurement of their health, if it’s bad for a person’s health to give hate to any group, then it should be possible to test that possibility in a medical examination of a person’s body. Is the CEO of a large gun corporation mentally healthy knowing they’re selling a product that kills?
Out of all the volunteer organisations out there that advocate sustainability is TZM the most threatening to you because it advocates social values based on science? I’m assuming TZM is still threatening to critics even after it’s supposedly dead according to crtics. If I’ve been suckered in by TZM, can you prove why social values that are based on science is a bad idea? Yes we have scientists in the monetary system yet does that mean our current global social activity is scientific in all approaches? (science being the approach of testing to find out how we should organise society). To me the current social values are a hybrid of falsehood and truth. When we get paid employment for example, we have accepted a lie by our employer because we didn’t investigate what value is. We were told and believed what value is by whoever paid us instead.
One final thing, part of the critcism of a resource-based economy is the supposed absence of meat production in an RBE because of how many resources are required to obtain meat. Well there’s an interesting part in “The reality of me” in a video called “health” in the section called “Ideas – Situations created – Perpetuated”. At 6mins and 50secs in it starts talking about how we are beginning to be able to create the conditions in a lab that enable the growth of flesh, bones and organs. Why not use that understanding to grow meat if the current methods of harvesting meat require a lot of resources?
more concerns are still welcome.
“they want to carry out the apparent tradition”
Zeitards like traditions too:
http://t.co/AoLw14MM
“yet the tradition does not reflect reality since God doesn’t care what we do.”
Marriage would still exist since it’s still defined in many ways now.
“I was talking from the dictionary meaning’s perspective, not people’s meanings of words.”
The dictionary didn’t write itself.
“We addressed the label rich-fag before do we need to go through it again?”
I just didn’t think you provided a sincere example.
“I think it’d deluded into many different directions.”
I think bias people against those directions try to delude it.
“People who think marriage is holy or perfect are in for wake up calls.”
If it’s rushed, I agree.
“Why should people show guilt for “cheating”?
Because they are lying to themselves if they are in a relationship with someone.
“(let me download that video and I’ll respond to it).”
I didn’t think you would want to argue “technological unemployment” with me, I’ll wait then.
“Maybe more organisations should come together to push positivity.”
I think organizations work together too.
“Yet do they address the positive monetary conditions that are gains from damaging human health?”
No they talk about the positive monetary conditions when recycling, you get some money from doing that and helps the environment, which should improve other people’s health, I thought.
“emergent society means “evolution of knowledge”
Which happens today, values change and we learn new things without a RBE.
“From the invention of the hammer to the nail-gun.”
RBE wasn’t needed for that.
“To the apparent invention of simply building houses without humans.”
I was watching Dexter and people were still building houses with hammers and shit.
“As zeitgeist itself says there is a scarce amount of money in supply and all loans must be repaid with interest meaning bankruptcy is inevitable.”
Lets see if all banks fail this year as Zeitgeist: Addendum says then:
“A flag should represent something that actually reflects reality”
TZM reflects utopia and random racism doesn’t make sense.
“But any article that interferes too much with your beliefs”
It wasn’t a belief lol. If it was, I wouldn’t sourced anything and when Joseph Merola Peter talks about statistics, he usually refers to the USA.
“is unworthy of review because it must be tainted by zeitgeist right?”
Well I’m sure the population was going up from the article I linked you, so when it says “annual death toll around the world is on the rise as populations increase” as if that’s a definite correlation, that makes me question your source. Oh and excuse me for not watching anything from the Townhall Meetings [hosted by Joseph Merola Peter] that were decreasing in attendance as there were more of them.
“Monetary economics is concerned with the buying and selling of goods and services based on the assumption that buying and selling makes people happy.”
If people only rely on selling and buying things to make them happy, then I think that’s sad.
“There’s a similar part in the movie “Lord of War” where the gun salesman is complaining about the peace talks happening that will consequently prevent his customers from buying more of his guns. A disregard for life in favour of money.”
That’s stupid, instead of hoping for “evil” things to happen, looking into a different business where there is more business would make more sense to me. I agree that people shouldn’t rely on one thing to do for the rest of their lives, there should always be a plan B, and even C, to not set up those plans is setting yourself up for failure.
“I hope you feel uncomfortable with the fact that I see value in you.”
I don’t see why I should.
“You need to put a lot of energy into the belief that the zeitgeist movement is a group full of evil people”
I think it’s a group of people that are easily misled by crazy assholes that end up defending them no matter what stupid shit they say or do and I don’t put a lot of energy into giving criticism now days, so what if I did ? I would need that energy if I’m arguing with 500,000 of you supposedly lol.
“Do you believe I’m deliberately evil?”
Maybe bipolar.
“this is my interpretation of the way critics label TZM as a cult.”
Every critic of TZM has their own angle looking at the Zeitgeist Movement.
“Why else would critics label TZM a cult?”
Because it acts like one and you call it that as well.
“Do you believe scientologists are evil at heart?”
I didn’t know you were a Scientologist too.
“If you don’t believe TZM members are deliberately evil, why would you want to be evil to them?”
Wow now I’m evil lol.
“I’m talking of course about the most savage insults from critcs such as the slogan of this website; “we’re going to bash the zeitgeist movement in the public arena and this is just the start of it.”
It’s not my site and the slogan isn’t that savage lol.
“Having fun hating cults yet?”
I didn’t know I was suppose to do that.
“Is the CEO of a large gun corporation mentally healthy knowing they’re selling a product that kills?”
I guess they feel healthy knowing they are selling something that can protect people.
“Out of all the volunteer organisations out there that advocate sustainability is TZM the most threatening to you because it advocates social values based on science?”
It’s disguised that way but doesn’t do anything scientific, also, with the reminders of Douglas Mallette, yeah, kind of threatening.
“I’m assuming TZM is still threatening to critics even after it’s supposedly dead according to crtics.”
With all the things going on with certain cult members [just the people] for TZM, I still haven’t felt like blogging or making videos. But to be honest, I’m waiting for that last show by Joseph Merola Peter where he shows proof that critics are paid to expose the Zeitgeist Movement from his lecture series.
“Yes we have scientists in the monetary system yet does that mean our current global social activity is scientific in all approaches?”
Yes we have all kinds of scientists.
“(science being the approach of testing to find out how we should organise society)”
No test city still.
“When we get paid employment for example, we have accepted a lie by our employer because we didn’t investigate what value is.”
Ask for a raise then.
“One final thing, part of the critcism of a resource-based economy is the supposed absence of meat production in an RBE because of how many resources are required to obtain meat. Well there’s an interesting part in “The reality of me” in a video called “health” in the section called “Ideas – Situations created – Perpetuated”. At 6mins and 50secs in it starts talking about how we are beginning to be able to create the conditions in a lab that enable the growth of flesh, bones and organs. Why not use that understanding to grow meat if the current methods of harvesting meat require a lot of resources?”
If TZM is against GE crops, this method of creating food would be a contradiction if endorsed.
The following is overflow that wasn’t typed here at the library.
“IT TURNS OUT WORKING WITH ZEITGEIST MAY COST YOU MONEY AS WELL” No shit, everything in a monetary system costs money.
“you call critics racist lol.”
I’m talking about the use of the term “zeit-tard”. it’s an obvious reference to the word “retard”. If someone says something stupid how does insulting them by calling them retarded help? Being insulting never helps. How does “you’re wrong but I want to help you” sound in comparison to “you’re a stupid fuck”? It’s just like communists calling americans “filthy american pigs” or people calling Japanese people “Nips” or calling black people “Niggers”.
These insulting labels do not help and they’re designed to cause a division for whatever reason. I mean if you can insult someone by calling them “zeit-tard” or “retard” then you can claim to have the upperhand in any conversation with anyone who says they’re a member of TZM, of course this creates someone with an authority ego. Without the conversation being a successful intellectual dialogue. I admit, it’s just like when I spouted the term “rich-fag” and we addressed that previously.
“we didn’t see the new jobs that we have now and I think we’ll experience the same thing in the next half of century”
Something that zeitgeist proposes is that computers and automation are becoming better than humans to such a degree that it’s now inefficient to keep the income for labour game going. The orientation guide talks about how people need to keep inventing new industries to keep the idea of working for money going because other industries have been touched by automation. Do we need to keep inventing new jobs? What is the function of say a wall street investor in terms of maintaining good social operation?
If technology has become better than the physical and mental labour of humans then the beliefs in the marketplace will be challenged. Do you fear people thinking technology is better than human labour?
Responding to the video;
Ray_Kurzweil_Debunks_Zeitgeist_Neo-Luddites_on_Google_Zeitgeist.flv
“That silly technological unemployment myth” How is a technological unemployment a myth? If computers and technology makes things easier in terms of removing drudgery how does that make more jobs?
If you don’t like the benefits of technology or the idea of technology replacing the hard labour the marketplace demands from people then smash computers! smash calculators, smash cell phones, smash cars, smash light globes, smash pencils, and smash your hands since I argue that even your hands are a form of biological technology because you use your hands to solve problems. That’ll create harder jobs, and working hard is a good thing right?
Technology (Noun)
2. The discipline dealing with the art or science of applying scientific knowledge to practical problems.
How does say installing a self-serve check out create a job? How does automating a production line create jobs? The argument I’ve heard is that it creates a job for a technician to maintain the machinery, but what about the job that the machine is now doing? How can that job be on the market if it has been replaced by a machine?
I can’t read those facebook posts because the version I got is in the lowest resoultion available for download. I get a very limited time on the net, I shouldn’t have to download the highest quality youtube video just to get the message they’re trying to commnicate in this video. Read out the facebook posts you’re referencing if they’re important.
Anyway continuing…
Now I’ve seen this confusion before, people confuse the word “job” with the word “employment”. Both are similar yet they’re different words. I don’t believe machines are going to completely take over our lives and do all of our thinking and labour for us.
But if we picture machines replacing the drudgery jobs that existed in medieval times, then how can we realistically picture a girl working at McDonalds in a technologically advanced society? (try to refrain from thinking of the fifth element).
What technology will do to human beings in the future is focus our thinking in new ways which we thought were impossible before. In the 2001 a space odyssey series there’s a book called 3001 the final odyssey, I admit I haven’t even read 3001 the final odyssey but the ideas expressed in that book are relevant here.
The book apparently goes on about how the black monoliths were actually a race of beings that merged with their technology to such an extent that they gave up any sort of pride that they had in their appearance to gain an almost infinite amount of wisdom from the cosmos. And of course in 2001 a space odyssey, a monolith revealed that wisdom to Dave.
I’m just expressing the idea that there will be jobs in the future because people will want to do things, yet I think we will be standing on the shoulders of our technology. Like right now, this conversation has been enabled be the ingenuity of many different people to simply have this conversation over the internet. (Forget video conferencing, the ingenuity that text conversations needs to be enabled is still incredible).
But the time of employment is going to run out if computers are better at the drudgery jobs the marketplace demands people to do. (unless we refuse to install advanced technology that would render drudgery jobs obsolete which apparently does not happen because employing a machine is cheaper than employing a human in the longrun).
You might be asking why I value you, James Kush, KeithTruth, and the other major critics of the zeitgeist movement. Well according to zeitgeist movement members, zeitgeist critics are not critics at all they’re all apparently trolls. Which is a one dimensional viewpoint which I don’t share. Yet the thing is I think trolling is a deviation from rational thought. Meaning the trolls that are on the internet, and yes even in the zeitgeist movement (the good example you brought up was the boxing video) are only trolling themselves. Yet according to the youtube video I’ve linked below the personality of the troll is someone who wants to be hated. So if you can accept the fact that I actually value you, then I think we’re getting somewhere. My response isn’t to ignore the apparent trolls, it’s to value them. If someone wants to be hated by me it’s tough shit, I value them.
http://www.youtube.com/user/philhellenes
Anymore concerns?
“I’m talking about the use of the term “zeit-tard”. it’s an obvious reference to the word “retard”
I didn’t know a “retard” can only exist in one race.
“I mean if you can insult someone by calling them “zeit-tard” or “retard” then you can claim to have the upperhand in any conversation with anyone who says they’re a member of TZM”
Zeitards think they have the upperhand by calling someone troll as that’s suppose to dismiss everything the so-called troll said, it doesn’t.
“Do we need to keep inventing new jobs?”
I think so, I disagree with Z3 when it says 75% percent of labor can be automated with last year’s technology, or today’s technology, I don’t think technology is that advanced.
“Ray_Kurzweil_Debunks_Zeitgeist_Neo-Luddites_on_Google_Zeitgeist.flv”
I think watching it with the annotations would have been better.
“What is the function of say a wall street investor in terms of maintaining good social operation?”
I guess you have to ask Joseph Merola Peter since he still engages in the market as he told Joe Rogan.
“Do you fear people thinking technology is better than human labour?”
I don’t fear calculators, calculators don’t operate by themselves, humans still press buttons to make it work, if not, it does nothing by itself.
“How is a technological unemployment a myth?”
Because more different jobs are always created.
“If computers and technology makes things easier in terms of removing drudgery how does that make more jobs?”
Less “drudgery” jobs are created.
“I argue that even your hands are a form of biological technology”
So everyone is a technician if no one with real credentials can support a RBE.
“Technology (Noun)”
Uh oh, copy and pasting online dictionary tactic.
“How does say installing a self-serve check out create a job?”
You mean in stores ? I see those come and go, people like interacting with people, I don’t think you can ever eliminate customer service, in that sense.
“I can’t read those facebook posts because the version I got is in the lowest resoultion available for download. I get a very limited time on the net, I shouldn’t have to download the highest quality youtube video just to get the message they’re trying to commnicate in this video.”
You shouldn’t use library computers to fool around, I thought those computers were meant for those trying to actually do their school work, the student that needs to use a computer for school shit and sees you on this site must think you’re an asshole.
“I don’t believe machines are going to completely take over our lives and do all of our thinking and labour for us.”
Whew.
“The book apparently goes on about how the black monoliths were actually a race of beings”
Blah blah blah, you watched a movie so it’s possible, yes, go on and reference Jack Nicholson praising Venusians in Easy Rider and Rael going on another planet [so he says] where there was no such thing as a job as well lol. You sure do sound like you wish machines could do everything for you.
“I’m just expressing the idea that there will be jobs in the future because people will want to do things”
Those are called careers.
“When I say tradition I’m talking about actions that have no point at all such as prayer.”
Then there’s no point in that tradition if they want to avoid being called a movie movement.
“What am I meant to reference?”
Whatever you want. I just thought you thought dictionaries wrote themselves.
“you know The advertisements you see where they almost tell you that products bring all the happiness in the world?”
I haven’t seen those commercials.
“I’m only against the directions if what we are told about marriage is in fact not true.”
Oh you’re not against it completely, that’s good, white dresses women wear, to me, represents a value shift, maybe one day, they both will wear white representing their purity to each other in marriage to show equality. But if colors doesn’t mean shit to you and you want to marry someone you want to spend the rest of your life with, then I say go for it.
“a relationship or marriage cannot be perfect because with time everything decays and builds in a fluxuation.”
But make up sex is the best sex.
“Since the real God of this world doesn’t care what we do, what’s the matter with multiple relationships?”
If the original partner is fine with that, then so be it, if not, then he or she needs to end that relationship, it doesn’t make sense to lie to yourself and the one you’re with pretending your relationship is great if it’s now not what you want.
“Such as a cigarette corporation making money from selling cigarettes to people killing them slowly, that is a postive monetary condition based on killing people slowly.
I’m not defending them.
“How come love still costs money then?”
Because people spend all their time with prostitutes.
“Or do you think society can maintain itself in a social system that does not change no matter how many technological changes happen.”
I said it could and you ranted about love costing money.
“(as mentioned in moving forward, no don’t go watch the whole of moving forward again)”
I watched Z3, it was just 3D shit, I didn’t see this happen in real life.
“That’ll be interesting won’t it?”
That would be his collapse porn fantasy coming true. Tho, I don’t think waiting for the collapse to happen will make a test city more possible.
“The picture I referenced tried to make some flags that actually reflect reality.”
No I don’t think the whole planet doesn’t glow green and blue like that from space radio actively and I think that would be strange to put on a flag to be proud of if you’re against pollution and etc.
“Random racism has a source”
If you’re pointing at the flags because the way the stars and stripes, etc. are, then that’s funny.
“a person must be treated badly for them to engage in hateful behaviour.”
I bet when people go to the UN and see all those flags, they all suddenly become pissed at each other lol.
“What matters is if or not the information being commnicated is true or not, not attendance numbers.”
With the world, I think we have to figure out which countries are the most polluted that is making the average cancer rates rise globally and ask them what the fuck is going on. I agree, pollution is bad, smoking is bad, but it doesn’t mean there should be a RBE, you’re just setting up a non sequitur.
“Totally agree with you there, but it’s what advertised to me all the time and I’m getting fed up to the back teeth with it.”
I change the station or channel when commercials come on, don’t mess up your teeth.
“To me business is evil because you’re forced to tell people what is value.”
It wouldn’t be a business if everything was free, of course products have prices on them.
“What does that say about the public then?”
The public is smart for not joining a cult, assuming you’re talking about the rest of the population on this planet.
“There would have to be a benchmark, considering if you listen to scientology critics they cloud around the same kinds of logical criticism.”
I’ll take that as an admission that the critics of TZM have logical criticism.
“I’m not you made that assumption.”
You seem defensive, okay, just checking.
“There’s a difference between doing evil actions and a person actually being evil.”
I thought the person has to be evil to do evil.
“That’s interesting, how is “bashing” not that savage?”
I can think of worse words, but you take things too literally.
“You said you can’t have love in you heart for cults”
Yes.
“are you talking about the people or the doctrine? I find see you doing both.”
According to you, if it’s both, I don’t heart cults and assholes, but I don’t hate people or cults, hating leads to extreme shit.
“There’s a difference between a person FEELING healthy”
I thought you were talking about mental health, in that regard, I thought it was feeling.
“a scientific test that proves if or not it is healthy.”
I’m sure guns protected people before and still do.
“Disguised that way? can you prove if it’s disguised that way?”
“Doesn’t do anything scientific either?”
3D shit is art, not scientific.
“So me advocating social values based on science is not scientific? Whoa.”
Exactly, just verbal masturbation.
“So scientists CAN’T be corrupted by money?”
I don’t consider them to be politicians.
“LOL! OH MY GOD!”
Now you’re religious lol.
“Look at the meaning of the word value and valuable, do you kiss you money?”
No lol.
“Zeitards like traditions too:” Checked the link I’ll read more, from what I gather they’re trying to come up with another way of spreading informative films by calling it whatever label they can come up with. When I say tradition I’m talking about actions that have no point at all such as prayer.
“Marriage would still exist since it’s still defined in many ways now.”
In sense of tradition I don’t think so, In the sense of the meaning of people wanting to be together yes.
“The dictionary didn’t write itself.”
Good point, but we should have some kind of reference for the words we use otherwise every single person could be speaking a different language. What am I meant to reference?
“I just didn’t think you provided a sincere example.” The Rich of this social system are victims of a society with social values that do not reflect reality. you know The advertisements you see where they almost tell you that products bring all the happiness in the world? The rich have been suckered in by those adverts completely, in the movie “inside-job” it talks about rich wall-street investors owning so much yet having mental problems and massive ego problems too.
“I think bias people against those directions try to delude it.” I’m only against the directions if what we are told about marriage is in fact not true. I mentioned the bible verse that says a woman must be a virgin otherwise she should be killed. I mean does it say in the bible that a man must be a virgin too otherwise he’ll be killed or only the woman?
“If it’s rushed, I agree.”
Rushed or not, a relationship or marriage cannot be perfect because with time everything decays and builds in a fluxuation.
“Because they are lying to themselves if they are in a relationship with someone.”
Since the real God of this world doesn’t care what we do, what’s the matter with multiple relationships?
“I didn’t think you would want to argue “technological unemployment” with me” This is addressed later in this post.
“I think organizations work together too.”
If the conditions force us to work together for the sake of humanity’s survival it will be natural for more people or organisations to attempt to work together.
“No they talk about the positive monetary conditions when recycling, you get some money from doing that and helps the environment, which should improve other people’s health, I thought.”
Even though there might be some postive environmental conditions gained from the monetary system, what cannot be ignored because of the positive is the negative. Such as a cigarette corporation making money from selling cigarettes to people killing them slowly, that is a postive monetary condition based on killing people slowly.
“Which happens today, values change and we learn new things without a RBE.”
Values change? Seriously? How come love still costs money then? They’re not changing in a way I like if love costs money.
“RBE wasn’t needed for that.”
I was talking about the emergent nature of reality there because you asked about it, I think all social systems should be treated as stepping stones to the next social system. Just like the hammer to the nail-gun example. Or do you think society can maintain itself in a social system that does not change no matter how many technological changes happen.
“were still building houses with hammers and shit.”
Part of the nature of the marketplace is to keep people employed even if the technology is there for that job to be not needed.
(as mentioned in moving forward, no don’t go watch the whole of moving forward again)
http://www.contourcrafting.org/
“Lets see if all banks fail this year as Zeitgeist: Addendum says then:”
That’ll be interesting won’t it? Well according to zeitgeist every single piece of money must be paid back with a little extra meaning that little extra isn’t there in the supply. It’s like society is hovering over a black hole.
“TZM reflects utopia and random racism doesn’t make sense.”
The picture I referenced tried to make some flags that actually reflect reality. A flag for maths, a flag for a tree, and a flag to symbolise love. Those things are real even if utopia is not. Random racism has a source, a person must be treated badly for them to engage in hateful behaviour.
“he usually refers to the USA.” Even though the USA is refered to in statistics, it’s the patterns or the trends that need to be understood.
“that were decreasing in attendance” What matters is if or not the information being commnicated is true or not, not attendance numbers. Considering anyone can download that video and sit and watch that lecture as if they were there (that’s wahy it was recorded proving it’s not a secret club)
“If people only rely on selling and buying things to make them happy, then I think that’s sad.”
Totally agree with you there, but it’s what advertised to me all the time and I’m getting fed up to the back teeth with it.
“looking into a different business where there is more business would make more sense to me.” To me business is evil because you’re forced to tell people what is value.
“I don’t see why I should.” This is addressed later too.
“I think it’s a group of people that are easily misled”
What does that say about the public then?
“Every critic of TZM has their own angle looking at the Zeitgeist Movement.” There would have to be a benchmark, considering if you listen to scientology critics they cloud around the same kinds of logical criticism. I reccomend the film “the bridge”
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8543311612176767287#
“I didn’t know you were a Scientologist too.”
I’m not you made that assumption.
“Wow now I’m evil lol.”
There’s a difference between doing evil actions and a person actually being evil.
“It’s not my site and the slogan isn’t that savage lol.” That’s interesting, how is “bashing” not that savage?
“I didn’t know I was suppose to do that.”
You said you can’t have love in you heart for cults, are you talking about the people or the doctrine? I find see you doing both.
“I guess they feel healthy knowing they are selling something that can protect people.”
There’s a difference between a person FEELING healthy and a scientific test that proves if or not it is healthy.
“It’s disguised that way but doesn’t do anything scientific”
Disguised that way? can you prove if it’s disguised that way? Since I’m a member I’m unable to see into the secret doctrines that you are apparently accessing of TZM.
Doesn’t do anything scientific either? So me advocating social values based on science is not scientific? Whoa.
“he shows proof that critics are paid to expose” To me what’s important is the validity of the information critics provide. I find both TZM and its critics useful. To have an open mind you listen to both sides, and attempt to assess what information relates to the real world.
“Yes we have all kinds of scientists.”
So scientists CAN’T be corrupted by money?
“No test city still.”
I know, I haven’t managed to build one for you yet can you forgive me for that? but still what’s wrong with the statement; “science being the approach of testing to find out how we should organise society”. That is a scientific social value I advocate.
“Ask for a raise then.”
LOL! OH MY GOD! I don’t know where to begin on that statement. Look at the meaning of the word value and valuable, do you kiss you money?
“If TZM is against GE crops, this method of creating food would be a contradiction if endorsed.”
I’m not against GE if the GE food has been proven to be healthy for the body and is not damaging to the land, but in this case I advocate those cylinder farms mentioned before.
The following is overflow that wasn’t typed here at the library.
“IT TURNS OUT WORKING WITH ZEITGEIST MAY COST YOU MONEY AS WELL” No shit, everything in a monetary system costs money.
“you call critics racist lol.”
I’m talking about the use of the term “zeit-tard”. it’s an obvious reference to the word “retard”. If someone says something stupid how does insulting them by calling them retarded help? Being insulting never helps. How does “you’re wrong but I want to help you” sound in comparison to “you’re a stupid fuck”? It’s just like communists calling americans “filthy american pigs” or people calling Japanese people “Nips” or calling black people “Niggers”.
These insulting labels do not help and they’re designed to cause a division for whatever reason. I mean if you can insult someone by calling them “zeit-tard” or “retard” then you can claim to have the upperhand in any conversation with anyone who says they’re a member of TZM, of course this creates someone with an authority ego. Without the conversation being a successful intellectual dialogue. I admit, it’s just like when I spouted the term “rich-fag” and we addressed that previously.
“we didn’t see the new jobs that we have now and I think we’ll experience the same thing in the next half of century”
Something that zeitgeist proposes is that computers and automation are becoming better than humans to such a degree that it’s now inefficient to keep the income for labour game going. The orientation guide talks about how people need to keep inventing new industries to keep the idea of working for money going because other industries have been touched by automation. Do we need to keep inventing new jobs? What is the function of say a wall street investor in terms of maintaining good social operation?
If technology has become better than the physical and mental labour of humans then the beliefs in the marketplace will be challenged. Do you fear people thinking technology is better than human labour?
Responding to the video;
Ray_Kurzweil_Debunks_Zeitgeist_Neo-Luddites_on_Google_Zeitgeist.flv
“That silly technological unemployment myth” How is a technological unemployment a myth? If computers and technology makes things easier in terms of removing drudgery how does that make more jobs?
If you don’t like the benefits of technology or the idea of technology replacing the hard labour the marketplace demands from people then smash computers! smash calculators, smash cell phones, smash cars, smash light globes, smash pencils, and smash your hands since I argue that even your hands are a form of biological technology because you use your hands to solve problems. That’ll create harder jobs, and working hard is a good thing right?
Technology (Noun)
2. The discipline dealing with the art or science of applying scientific knowledge to practical problems.
How does say installing a self-serve check out create a job? How does automating a production line create jobs? The argument I’ve heard is that it creates a job for a technician to maintain the machinery, but what about the job that the machine is now doing? How can that job be on the market if it has been replaced by a machine?
I can’t read those facebook posts because the version I got is in the lowest resoultion available for download. I get a very limited time on the net, I shouldn’t have to download the highest quality youtube video just to get the message they’re trying to commnicate in this video. Read out the facebook posts you’re referencing if they’re important.
Anyway continuing…
Now I’ve seen this confusion before, people confuse the word “job” with the word “employment”. Both are similar yet they’re different words. I don’t believe machines are going to completely take over our lives and do all of our thinking and labour for us.
But if we picture machines replacing the drudgery jobs that existed in medieval times, then how can we realistically picture a girl working at McDonalds in a technologically advanced society? (try to refrain from thinking of the fifth element).
What technology will do to human beings in the future is focus our thinking in new ways which we thought were impossible before. In the 2001 a space odyssey series there’s a book called 3001 the final odyssey, I admit I haven’t even read 3001 the final odyssey but the ideas expressed in that book are relevant here.
The book apparently goes on about how the black monoliths were actually a race of beings that merged with their technology to such an extent that they gave up any sort of pride that they had in their appearance to gain an almost infinite amount of wisdom from the cosmos. And of course in 2001 a space odyssey, a monolith revealed that wisdom to Dave.
I’m just expressing the idea that there will be jobs in the future because people will want to do things, yet I think we will be standing on the shoulders of our technology. Like right now, this conversation has been enabled be the ingenuity of many different people to simply have this conversation over the internet. (Forget video conferencing, the ingenuity that text conversations needs to be enabled is still incredible).
But the time of employment is going to run out if computers are better at the drudgery jobs the marketplace demands people to do. (unless we refuse to install advanced technology that would render drudgery jobs obsolete which apparently does not happen because employing a machine is cheaper than employing a human in the longrun).
You might be asking why I value you, James Kush, KeithTruth, and the other major critics of the zeitgeist movement. Well according to zeitgeist movement members, zeitgeist critics are not critics at all they’re all apparently trolls. Which is a one dimensional viewpoint which I don’t share. Yet the thing is I think trolling is a deviation from rational thought. Meaning the trolls that are on the internet, and yes even in the zeitgeist movement (the good example you brought up was the boxing video) are only trolling themselves. Yet according to the youtube video I’ve linked below the personality of the troll is someone who wants to be hated. So if you can accept the fact that I actually value you, then I think we’re getting somewhere. My response isn’t to ignore the apparent trolls, it’s to value them. If someone wants to be hated by me it’s tough shit, I value them.
http://www.youtube.com/user/philhellenes
Anymore concerns?
Make a double post of my last post, sorry about that.
“I didn’t know a “retard” can only exist in one race.”
How am I meant to get anything from that statement? I’m talking about the use of words.
“it doesn’t.”
In that sentence I did not say that. I’m talking about the reverse, just like a “zeit-tard” can claim the upperhand by calling someone a troll, a critic can claim the upperhand by calling a member a “zeit-tard”.
“I think so, I disagree with Z3 when it says 75% percent of labor can be automated with last year’s technology, or today’s technology, I don’t think technology is that advanced.”
You don’t think technology is that advanced or you know if technology is advanced? There’s a difference between what your opinion is and the reality.
Why do we need to keep inventing new jobs? Do you think people like selling their labour in the marketplace?
“I think watching it with the annotations would have been better.” The creator of the video didn’t deem it important enough for them to be read out even at least by Microsoft Sam.
“I guess you have to ask Joseph Merola Peter” I was asking YOU that question not Joseph Merola Peter. We already know his opinion on that subject through Moving Forward, investors contribute apparently nothing to society.
“I don’t fear calculators, calculators don’t operate by themselves, humans still press buttons to make it work, if not, it does nothing by itself.”
I said technology, I didn’t say calculators, calculators are a technology, yet technology is all invention. What about computers that self-run after being put into motion?
“Because more different jobs are always created.”
Why does the marketplace have to bother creating jobs for me to do? I can create jobs for myself. It’s called “self actualisation”.
http://theskooloflife.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/maslows-hierarchy.gif
“Less “drudgery” jobs are created.”
What if I don’t value what the employer tells is value (money).
So everyone is a technician if no one with real credentials can support a RBE.
Do “real credentials” make you better than other people?
“online dictionary tactic.” Offline dictionary actually, and what’s wrong with that “tactic”?
“I don’t think you can ever eliminate customer service, in that sense.” Time will tell.
“computers to fool around” You’re making assumptions on nothing. did I say before I get a TIME LIMIT?
“must think you’re an asshole.” Making assumptions on nothing, what you don’t want to talk to a member of TZM, just sit a be a critic without talking to them? I’ve seen scientology critics openly WANT to talk to members of sceintology.
“Whew.” Yep!
“Blah blah blah, you watched a movie so it’s possible” I was communicating an idea, I didn’t say it reflected reality!!
“You sure do sound like you wish machines could do everything for you.” That’s an assumption, I want technology used to HELP humanity, as I said before. “I don’t believe machines are going to completely take over our lives and do all of our thinking and labour for us.”
“Those are called careers.” They’re also called hobbies.
“Then there’s no point in that tradition if they want to avoid being called a movie movement.” I agreed with you when you said they are a movie movement remember? How do you educate people? through informative film, yet not just informative film through discussion too. Like the one we are engaging in. I see the danger of just relying on film and not having discussion, you create people that may want to just rely on film.
“I just thought you thought dictionaries wrote themselves.” I don’t, people had to write the dictionary.
“I haven’t seen those commercials.” I have.
http://www.ourbreathingplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/consumerism-beginners.jpg
“Oh you’re not against it completely” I’m only against the traditonal elements of marriage. If people want to have a celebration wearing whatever colours they want I’m fine with that. I’m not fine with the idea of say a preist holding the right to give the okay in terms of allowing two people to love.
“But make up sex is the best sex.”
I’m sure that’ll fix all relationship problems, REALL sure.
“If the original partner is fine with that, then so be it, if not, then he or she needs to end that relationship, it doesn’t make sense to lie to yourself and the one you’re with pretending your relationship is great if it’s now not what you want.” Agreement here.
“I’m not defending them.” That’s good, because I’ve seen advertisements that attempt to.
“Because people spend all their time with prostitutes.” prostitution is good business if there’s a scarce amount of love around. (the following I’m joking;) I better ring up one of those phone sex services and pay 2 dollars and 60cents per min while I fuck a prostitute.
“I said it could” We’ll see if that hold up then, remember that reality does not bend to your will.
“I watched Z3, it was just 3D shit, I didn’t see this happen in real life.” So people doing sceince on computers isn’t real? Well actually it was there, there was short segment where they showed the machine doing the construction. I guess you missed that.
“That would be his collapse porn fantasy coming true. Tho, I don’t think waiting for the collapse to happen will make a test city more possible.”
The “collapse” is probably going to be slow process, do you expect the whole world to go instantly bankrupt like a holly-wood film even if that is the equation that the monetary system is running under? Principal + Interest required = bankruptcy
“No I don’t think the whole planet doesn’t glow green and blue like that from space radio actively and I think that would be strange to put on a flag to be proud of if you’re against pollution and etc.”
At the end of some Peter Merloa Fresco lecture he had a picture of a flag with just the regular picture of Earth, not the strange green glowing one. It was a recent one where he talked about flat land from Carl Sagan’s Cosmos in reference to the way people can think.
“If you’re pointing at the flags because the way the stars and stripes, etc. are, then that’s funny.” No I’m not, racism comes from social indoctrination not flags that’s silly.
“I bet when people go to the UN and see all those flags, they all suddenly become pissed at each other lol.”
lol, It’s good that people want to make kind of expression that says that they want to work together even if the system is based on competition.
“With the world, I think we have to figure out which countries are the most polluted that is making the average cancer rates rise globally and ask them what the fuck is going on. I agree, pollution is bad, smoking is bad, but it doesn’t mean there should be a RBE, you’re just setting up a non sequitur.”
It’s a matter of perspective, one part of the zeitgeist argument is that smoking is good, and pollution is good from a monetary perspective, not a health perspective. If you cause people to have cancer for example, that’s good for a cancer business that wants to service people’s treatments. If you sell smokes to people that might cause you to have health problems, indirectly causing more business.
Why is pollution good? well if it’s cheaper to pollute than to arrange for a proper disposal to save money there is a motivation to try to get away with that action. Will a corporation get away with that action? maybe and maybe not but the devilish motivation is there.
“I don’t think I ever suggested that.” Part of the term cult implies secret club to me because sceintology makes videos for it’s own members not the public.
“I change the station or channel when commercials come on” changing the station doesn’t make them not exist anymore or take away the motivation to make more of those adverts. Adverts are on all channels all the time, ever heard of product placement? A woman might be drinking a soft-drink in a holly-wood movie for example.
“It wouldn’t be a business if everything was free, of course products have prices on them.” To tell people what is value without people figuring out what is value and what is not is a form of facism.
“The public is smart for not joining a cult” Have fun.
“I’ll take that as an admission that the critics of TZM have logical criticism.” If and only if they’re not saying things like “you’re a waste of space”.
“okay, just checking.” Right o!
damn there’s still more lol.
“I thought the person has to be evil to do evil.” Moving Forward suggests that the pre-set condition for the human being is love in part 1 human nature. Of course if that is a scientific fact you don’t need to watch moving forward to find that out.
“I can think of worse words, but you take things too literally.” I could say the choice of words could have been nicer.
“hating leads to extreme shit.” Agree here, but I think there’s a difference between the human being and the asshole actions a person can do. Is a person simply the actions that they do and that’s it? Or is there something more behind the asshole actions the person commits. Like revenge a person has to do have done something to them first.
“3D shit is art, not scientific.”
Well I would disagree with that, people making 3D models of things is useful to science. Say you take a 3D scan of your body to check if there’s something wrong with it.
“Exactly, just verbal masturbation.”
Is there anyway to check if or not the social values that I advocate is scientific and not simply “verbal masturbation.” (That’s science by the way a form of testing to test if the values I advocate hold up to the real world).
“I don’t consider them to be politicians.”
Wow sceintists are perfect.
“Now you’re religious lol.”
I don’t think I am no.
“No lol.”
I was asking because you just said to ask for a pay rise when I said employers are simply TELLING you what value is by paying you with money. What is value? Is air, food and water more valuable than the money you use to buy what you need to live?
The following is overflow.
I missed your bipolar comment, sorry about that.
Bipolar (Adjective)
1. Of or relating to manic depressive illness
2. Of, pertaining to, or occurring in both polar regions
3. Having two poles
Well to an extent I’m depressed or unhappy with the current social situation, but I’m not “affected with or marked by frenzy or mania uncontrolled by reason”. To have bipolar it sounds like you need to be wild or completely out of self control because there would be currently something wrong with the brain. Afflicted by environmental stimulus of course. Is that right?
At least I think I’m not, although some of my grammar and spelling might be shit-house I think you can still understand what I’m saying to the extent that you should be able to figure out if I’m experiencing bipolar or not without needing to say “you MIGHT have bipolar”.
You might be wondering why I value someone who wants to be hated, well firstly because they want to be hated so I refuse to give them what they want. But mainly because it’s the human being I value. I don’t think the thought process of a person that wants to be hated is rational. So then do I hate people who legitimately want to be loved? No of course not that’s silly.
Anymore concerns?
“How am I meant to get anything from that statement?
You can come off harsh at times, I can too, I don’t know what you’re expecting to happen when you lecture me on about how I should talk to people.
“In that sentence I did not say that. I’m talking about the reverse”
It doesn’t matter, if someone for TZM calls me a troll, I call them a Zeitard.
“There’s a difference between what your opinion is and the reality.”
I give both.
“Do you think people like selling their labour in the marketplace?”
If it’s what they like doing, sure.
“I was asking YOU”
http://www.bigfatpurse.com/2011/09/what-value-do-traders-and-investors-contribute
But if Peter Joseph Merola thinks investors contribute nothing and does the same shit that says does nothing, then that makes him a hypocrite.
“I said technology”
If I feared technology, I would be living in the woods, not even communicating with you.
“Why does the marketplace have to bother creating jobs for me to do?”
I think we will always find ways of monitoring technology in different ways when new technology comes into place that create those jobs.
“I can create jobs for myself.”
If you run a business, sure, fine, debunk “technological unemployment” too lol.
“What if I don’t value what the employer tells is value (money).”
Ask for a raise or find another job.
“Do “real credentials” make you better than other people?”
It makes them more trustworthy, it’s good to try to avoid con artists and shit.
“Offline dictionary actually, and what’s wrong with that “tactic”?”
If you seriously didn’t know what the word “technology” meant, then I don’t understand how someone can really advocate a society based on Science.
“Time will tell.”
If you thought it was cheaper to install a self-serve check out service for the employer instead of him or her hiring people with cashier jobs and the employer stops using that automation, I think that speaks volumes, it may have been cheaper, but something wasn’t working, unless you are saying now the employer is really stupid and is deliberately creating jobs over denial of “technological unemployement” and wants to lose more money. No something else has to be going on, like, people feel more comfortable stealing shit with less people around, dialing incorrect numbers and people being overcharged by accident, those are the first things that come to my mind on why something like that wouldn’t work.
“did I say before I get a TIME LIMIT?”
Still I’m sure you must feel like an asshole if someone else actually needs to use it for school work, I would, even feel embarrassed.
“what you don’t want to talk to a member of TZM”
You’re not the first. I can talk to other Zeitards that aren’t being library assholes. When you complain about not being able to download something as if library computers are meant for you personally to fool around with, then yes, that gets on my nerves as you complain about your computer quality, if you link shit to me, I’m linking shit back to you, if you link videos to me, I’m linking videos to you, so I don’t care if you complain about downloading when the purpose of that previous link that you complained about was to just read the text of what was said.
“I’ve seen scientology critics openly WANT to talk to members of sceintology.”
Do it from your parents’ house then.
“I was communicating an idea, I didn’t say it reflected reality!!”
I have my doubts.
“They’re also called hobbies.”
That’s something you come home to after work.
“How do you educate people?”
http://www.khanacademy.org
“I have.”
That’s not a commercial and in text there’s no mention of bringing all “happiness in the world”.
“I’m not fine with the idea of say a preist holding the right to give the okay in terms of allowing two people to love.”
From an atheist perspective, I agree, if both in the couple were atheists I suppose. Come on tho, priests are cool:
I mean reverends.
“I’m sure that’ll fix all relationship problems, REALL sure.”
Actually little arguments in relationships makes the relationship stronger, without those arguments, things can build up and shit can get bad.
“So people doing sceince on computers isn’t real?”
It’s only real if it’s tangible.
“Well actually it was there, there was short segment where they showed the machine doing the construction. I guess you missed that.”
I guess I did. I wonder why I don’t hear more about that part of the film outside from watching Z3.
“The “collapse” is probably going to be slow process, do you expect the whole world to go instantly bankrupt like a holly-wood film even if that is the equation that the monetary system is running under?”
That’s what I think Zeitards expect, another Great Depression, even worse I think, Peter Joseph Merola [the name game was fun] said in Z3 opening screening or whatever that there will be an economic collapse, energy collapse, all kinds of collapses, so he’s really has his heart on the collapse porn.
“At the end of some Peter Merloa Fresco lecture he had a picture of a flag with just the regular picture of Earth”
The flag shit again lol. They should change logos then, because to me, Zeitards like the planet being radio-active.
“It’s a matter of perspective, one part of the zeitgeist argument is that smoking is good, and pollution is good from a monetary perspective, not a health perspective.”
If that is the Zeitgeist argument, then they should recycle and not buy cigarettes, make those evil corporations lose profit, but I doubt everyone for TZM is that principled.
“If you cause people to have cancer for example”
I don’t think corporations know they are deliberately giving people cancer, some countries have high rates of cancer and some don’t [I doubt the USA is the only one] and I don’t know which countries are rising more and all the countries decreasing more and there’s always that fluxuation we can’t really find a correlation to.
Damn spell check, I think I’m spelling that word right anyways, I think you are too.
“that’s good for a cancer business that wants to service people’s treatments.”
No I don’t think cancer hospitals and corporations hi5 each other secretly.
“Why is pollution good?”
It isn’t.
“well if it’s cheaper to pollute than to arrange for a proper disposal”
I think it’s lazier, like littering.
“Will a corporation get away with that action?”
I don’t know how a corporation can prevent someone from recycling and getting money from doing so.
“Part of the term cult implies secret club to me because sceintology makes videos for it’s own members not the public.”
When the TZM site was up with the forums, the old design, I remember them talking about open teams and closed teams. I still think those closed teams exist.
“changing the station doesn’t make them not exist anymore or take away the motivation to make more of those adverts.”
Well that’s how people get more business, but if it’s business that I’m not interested in, then I change the channel or station.
“Adverts are on all channels all the time”
I call bullshit. People don’t buy TVs to watch advertisements.
“A woman might be drinking a soft-drink in a holly-wood movie for example.”
I guess everything is product placement in real life then unless everyone was naked and starved to death, but it’s what the woman bought, real life or not, not what I bought.
“To tell people what is value without people figuring out what is value and what is not is a form of facism.”
Then there are other stores if people feel that way they can go to.
“If and only if they’re not saying things like “you’re a waste of space”.
I rather have someone say that, then say you’re a “useless waste of skin”, that implies someone wanting to kill you, waste of space, that implies someone thinking you shouldn’t be wasting their time on the internet.
“Is a person simply the actions that they do and that’s it?”
That’s it when it comes to first impressions.
“Or is there something more behind the asshole actions the person commits. Like revenge a person has to do have done something to them first.”
I think there is more to the person of course, like you apologizing for the double posting and posting on wrong articles. Also, thanx for recognizing me as valuable when I provided the boxing hypocrisy of TZM.
“Well I would disagree with that, people making 3D models of things is useful to science.”
So do people making movies, I don’t call movie making Science.
“Wow sceintists are perfect.”
Better than politicians.
“What is value? Is air, food and water more valuable than the money you use to buy what you need to live?
I would say they are equally valuable, you need money for food and water. There has to be some equilibrium or else everyone would hoard everything and hurt other people’s lives. But air is everywhere.
“Well to an extent I’m depressed or unhappy with the current social situation, but I’m not “affected with or marked by frenzy or mania uncontrolled by reason”.
Lets cross our fingers.
“Is that right?”
I remember saying “maybe” when saying “bipolar” when you asked me if I thought you were “evil”.
“You might be wondering why I value someone who wants to be hated”
I didn’t know critics wanted to be hated, shit, everyone online is a critic now, I don’t think that means everyone is hateful, it just means everyone has an opinion, oh, that’s right, people for TZM believes no one should have a right to their own opinion, only Zeitards can.
“well firstly because they want to be hated so I refuse to give them what they want.”
I thought your trolling was showing your hatred to us where you admit to trolling so called trolls on the fat elf’s forum.
“how I should talk to people.”
Take what value you can get what I say and disregard the rest. Talk to people in a nice manner, look up on the internet how to talk to people in a nicer manner.
“if someone for TZM calls me a troll, I call them a Zeitard.”
It’s a matter of degree of course, there can be trolling statements in conversations but it’s important to remain on topic. I call you a critic not troll.
I’ll download the article but to attempt to answer the question
“Do traders and investors add value to the society, or at least the financial ecosystem?” I’d say the financial ecosystem only. Money in itself is not natural it’s human made, when you allocate a money value on something the value of the money does not exceed the value of what you’re using to value it.
“then that makes him a hypocrite.” If the marketplace is detrimental to our global culture we’re all hypocrites.
“If I feared technology, I would be living in the woods, not even communicating with you.” lol good point.
“I think we will always find ways of monitoring technology in different ways when new technology comes into place that create those jobs.”
Well you have to seperate the word jobs and the word employment otherwise I agre with you. Because if computers and automation exceed the expectations of human beings there won’t be employment.
“If you run a business, sure, fine, debunk “technological unemployment” too lol.”
When I say I can create myself a job, I don’t mean employment. technological unemployment? Well are we sill doing the really awful jobs that used to be done in medieval times? Remember even a toilet is technology, someone would have done a job to do with that sort of thing for a king without that invention.
“Ask for a raise or find another job.”
LOL. I’m talking about any employer that tells me money is valuable. What if I do not accept the employer telling me money as value. No matter what the amount or raise.
“It makes them more trustworthy, it’s good to try to avoid con artists and shit.”
So there can’t be a con-artist with “real credentials”? I mean people can claim “real credentials” in anything. Scientologists claim real credentials in their Scientology Tech.
“If you thought it was cheaper to install a self-serve check out…”
Well apparently it is, the catch of course is what’s termed the contradiction of capitalism. Meaning coporations know to an extent that removing all their staff with machines will give the coporation a bad image even if it reduces the amount they have to pay to their employees. Yet if greed is the overshadowing part of the monetary system the temptation might become too much.
“deliberately creating jobs over denial of “technological unemployement”” That isn’t impossible is it?
“I would, even feel embarrassed.” You get a booking, mostly the computers are free for use here.
“Zeitards that aren’t being library assholes.” Sorry for not paying for over-priced internet.
“not being able to download” I’m able to download mostly anything, just not massive stuff. It sould be able to b enough for conversation.
“gets on my nerves as you complain about your computer quality” Not my fault.
“if you link shit to me, I’m linking shit back to you, if you link videos to me, I’m linking videos to you” That’s the why this conversation is going to work it’s awesome!
“Do it from your parents’ house then.” No internet at home.
“I have my doubts.” Well not completely reflecting reality I don’t think we’re going to look like black monoliths in the future. But I think if technology acn upgrade our actual bodies in the future won’t that be interesting?
“That’s something you come home to after work.”
So work is not meant to be fun?
“http://www.khanacademy.org”
From what I saw, looks like a good site. We are anonymous, Information is free.
“That’s not a commercial and in text there’s no mention of bringing all “happiness in the world”.”
I can’t point to an advertisement and say it’s promising all the happiness in the world. It’s an implication through the way products are advertised. Also the use of people are sexual messages in advertising.
“From an atheist perspective, I agree” Great, and downloading video.
“Actually little arguments in relationships makes the relationship stronger, without those arguments, things can build up and shit can get bad.”
Agree here, but the source of argument should be always identified to prevent argument. It’s a never-ending process to attempt to prevent argument.
“It’s only real if it’s tangible.”
you have to have an ability to see if it’s potentially tangible or not. How feasible is it based on other technology that is known to work?
“I guess I did.” It’s good that it’s there even if it’s only a small segment. I would have wanted a longer one, but other advanced automation is shown working throughout certain parts of the film. Yet forget moving forward you can look up automation videos on youtube too probably.
“That’s what I think Zeitards expect,” Well I try not to because that’s expecting the negative. You need to do something if there is going to be a collapse. Since I think it’s going to be a slow one, it gives me a chance to promote postive shit such as the posters I’ve put up recently “make love not money”. Make it anymore complex and people are not going to stand there and read posters all day.
“really has his heart on the collapse porn.”
If the collapses are going to happen they are going to be slow not an instant orgasim of collapses.
“They should change logos then, because to me, Zeitards like the planet being radio-active.”
fair comment, I disregard their logo and try to promote something more sensiable then.
“then they should recycle” If recycling itself is bad for business that is difficult considering business might want to stop that, but it should be promoted anyway.
“I don’t think corporations know they are purposely giving people cancer” If they are it’s through indirect action.
“hi5 each other secretly.” The profit books hi5 eachother then.
“I don’t know how a corporation can prevent someone from recycling and getting money from doing so.”
Make items that are difficult to recycle.
“I still think those closed teams exist.”
They can hide in their closed teams, least I’m here talking to you.
“I call bullshit. People don’t buy TVs to watch advertisements.” What about the TV’s logo itself, even though your eye is looking at the screen there’s still the logo of the company that made the screen around the screen. Also what’s common is for a station to put their logo in a water-mark at the bottom right of the screen. These are adverts that are there yet the video itself that you’re viewing might not be a complete advertisement. Just so you know you’re watching “channel 666″ or whatever.
“I guess everything is product placement in real life then unless everyone was naked and starved to death, but it’s what the woman bought, real life or not, not what I bought.”
That sounds like a line out the movie “the coporation”. product placement in real life or on the TV just as long as your brain is filled with advertisng messages. So you trust a certain type of brand for life.
“Then there are other stores if people feel that way they can go to.”
If it doesn’t use money it isn’t a “store”.
“shouldn’t be wasting their time on the internet.” It maybe that a person might make such a comment because it might be something they do not want to hear. “It’s a waste of time to hear about how I may be wrong” for example.
“recognizing me as valuable when I provided the boxing hypocrisy of TZM.” No problem, the value of this conversation needs to be here so there’s a gateway between critics and members I think.
“I don’t call movie making Science.” Well there would be a science to making good movies, but it also depends how scientific you are in what you’re saying in your movie.
“I would say they are equally valuable, you need money for food and water. There has to be some equilibrium or else everyone would hoard everything and hurt other people’s lives. But air is everywhere.”
There’s a movie called “CUBE” and there’s a movie called “127 hours”. Both go through the sudden change the humans have to go through to realise that money is no good where they are now. 10min to go can I make it!
“Lets cross our fingers.” will do.
“if I thought you were “evil”.” would someone who has bipolar ask that question?
“a right to their own opinion, only Zeitards can.” Well I don’t want an opinion, guess I can’t be a Zeitard.
“I thought your trolling was showing your hatred to us where you admit to trolling so called trolls on the fat elf’s forum”
After a time, you loose energy for hate completely. At least that’s my experiance.
the following is overflow.
Responding to youtube video “The_Venus_Project_Is_All_Promises.flv”
(Quoting it)
“My latest innovation will change all that” “I believe the respectable term is marketing” “to finance a fleet of mobile towers right but we don’t actually build any.” “So the extra revenue becomes pure profit” “but would people want to see some towers?” “we allow that fancy model every now and then” “some eye candy to gawp at” “Meanwhile the project is officially in development” “I seem very taken by the new towers sir” “it’s the oldest trick in the book” “dazzle them with a pretty picture” “they haven’t even built the mobiles yet have they? it’s all promise” “you know what happens to promises”
Response:
So you think the zeitgeist movement or the venus project is a business that insults money and claims that there isn’t enough money to save the planet while in fact they only want to make money? Seriously? You seem to be pessimist on anything that’s too interfering with money. Are you against open source? Open source ruins business because there’s no business in open source. “Open source social system” to me is another way of saying “Resource-based economy.”
“Hey hey Mars my man help a brother out huh?” “Grow up kid” -Moving Forward
What’s with promoting the idea that there isn’t enough money to save the planet while apparently being a corporation? Where’s the monetary gain in doing that? The logic is crazy.
All those activists that have taken the message on board that there isn’t enough money to save the planet yet they want to make money for the zeitgeist business? that’s a major contradiction. They’re all under hypnosis are they, slaving away wanting to just make money for Fresco Merola Peter? I find that very hard to swallow, even with the donation box gimmick TZM pulled that you found out about.
I doubt the zeitgeist business is going to become as big as the big corporations out there (considering the big players in the game want to shut down competition like the game monopoly) if the goal of zeitgeist is to encourage a different set of social values that do not support money. How can you become a big corporation if your goal is to encourage social values that do not support money? You could make that claim of any organisation that is trying to do good, “Hey did you hear about organisation X? Y? or Z? they’re just really in it for the money you know” besides whether or not they are. You need more proof of this otherwise it’s just pure assumption which is what that youtube video is.
Where’s the secret zeitgeist doctrines that advocates what you’re saying? For example although scientology critics might have made assumptions about the workings of sceintology, they actually obtained their secret doctrines to create a more compounding case for the criticisms they had of scientology. If you look around the internet you can probably find the secret doctrines of scientology on the internet in PDF form.
I remember critics once re-packaged a video that was released online by Peter Jorola Fresco on TZM’s youtube channel and claimed that zeitgeist didn’t want people to see the video. Re-packaging video is not releasing secret zeitgeist videos. Are cult experts interested in zeitgeist? (not aspiring cult experts). I’m not interested in credentials I’m interested in experience and knowledge. For example Xenu.net (a credential is a piece of paper). Here’s a challenge for you, infiltrate the zeitgeist movement with cult experts, hidden cameras and then post it online. I welcome that. I recommend a great youtube video where they did that to Scientology I’ll try to link it here. Scientology critics show no fear towards scientology.
Scientology_Inside_the_Cult_.flv
I don’t know about the whole zeitgeist movement, but my goal isn’t to make fat stacks of cash. My goal is to encourage people to reassess value and for people to realise that love is more valuable than money. When I say “realise” I mean if love is more valuable than money then it should be provable to the indivdual, not simply my opinion. Of course I’m very interested in an explanation as to what is wrong with my goal if anything. So why not use zeitgeist for my goal? (I’m talking about the make love not money posters I put up recently).
Here’s a question, why would the monetary system allow itself to be replaced by a social system based on science? (Or am I not even allowed to use the term “social system based on science”?) Apparently marketplace doctrine has religious inclinations in it (was it “the wealth of nations”?). How does the marketplace come into equilibrium in terms of supply equalling demand? It’s led by the invisible hand or the all knowing God of the market. I lol’d when I considered that’s what economists have thought or still think, that the economy is being led by a divine god.
Say a group of people advocated the use of green energy instead of the current methods of obtaining energy. Do you think the oil corporations will just roll over and say “Hey it’s been proven by science that we’re now obsolete, better shut down our multi-billion dollar corporation”? Or are they going to dig their feet into the ground and develop self-preservation strategies?
I remember briefly once on the crap-a-vison (televison) that a shepherd (pastor) from a church admitted he didn’t like the use of the modern gadgets available and wanted to get his sheeple back into the church (that’s an example of a poor self-preservation strategy since gadgets are more fun than someone telling you that you’re going to burn in hell.)
The idea behind a social system based on science is to put priority or value on the well being of humans. At the moment this is not the case, since it’s a beneficial condition for industry for people to be sick, unhappy or unfulfilled. For example the Rich, you can never fill a need for love with buying products, therefore the rich have been suckered in. They keep buying stuff because the stuff doesn’t fill their void, but that’s good business for the corporations that are selling those private jets to them.
While reading what I say do you think I’m in it for the money? Are there key signs to look for to know if someone’s in it for the money or not? Because technically if you think TZM is in it for the money that means (jokingly) that all the members kiss their money goodnight. Almost everyone in TZM would have to be impossibly two-faced.
“The only way to predict the future is to create it.”
Anymore concerns about TZM?
By the way here’s a picture of my time limit, you get 60mins at one time.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/gjsx.jpg/
“Talk to people in a nice manner”
I do already to those who are already polite with me.
“I’ll download the article but to attempt to answer the question”
You have to download an article ?
“I’d say the financial ecosystem only.”
That’s all I would expect from traders and investors myself, I leave the environment to the environmentalists.
“Remember even a toilet is technology, someone would have done a job to do with that sort of thing for a king without that invention.”
In a RBE, I don’t know who would want to do that for free.
“I’m talking about any employer that tells me money is valuable.”
If it wasn’t valuable to you in the first place, then I don’t understand why you would have looked for a job.
“So there can’t be a con-artist with “real credentials”?
No I don’t think people with real credentials need to lie about their background.
“I mean people can claim “real credentials” in anything.”
I don’t think it’s that easy.
“Scientologists claim real credentials in their Scientology Tech.”
I don’t think Scientologists even need a resume if they are working for a Scientology Company, the same logic can be applied for the Zeitgeist Movement.
“Meaning coporations know to an extent that removing all their staff with machines will give the coporation a bad image”
I don’t understand how it would give them a bad image, workers being displaced is not a new thing.
“Yet if greed is the overshadowing part of the monetary system the temptation might become too much.”
I wouldn’t call the employer greedy for wanting her or his business to survive.
Self-serve check out scenario:
If the employer is greedy, he’ll remove workers and put in machines defending your “technological unemployment” argument, strange, because you would want employers to be greedy for your argument to show validity.
If the employer isn’t greedy, he’ll or she’ll recruit the workers over the machines after it doesn’t work out and actually listens to the customers [or view if they even like the new machines] since the customers are always right, but people for TZM will think he or she is somehow still greedy when he or she is not showing corrupt behavior.
I think jobs that require skilled labor to plan, organize, develop, critical think won’t be easily replaceable compared to jobs in the past, especially jobs now that are based more on human interaction.
“No internet at home.”
Go to a friend’s house then.
“But I think if technology acn upgrade our actual bodies in the future won’t that be interesting?”
It’s already being done now for those who need new body parts:
“So work is not meant to be fun?”
I thought careers were more fun.
“I can’t point to an advertisement and say it’s promising all the happiness in the world.”
Maaaaannnnn!
“It’s an implication through the way products are advertised.”
No just to you as you make the purchase.
“Also the use of people are sexual messages in advertising.”
I guess for condom commercials.
“Agree here, but the source of argument should be always identified to prevent argument.”
That can be done in small arguments. You can’t read people’s minds.
“you have to have an ability to see if it’s potentially tangible or not.”
Then comes testing.
“It’s good that it’s there even if it’s only a small segment.”
I’ll look into that tho. I honestly did forget that part and thought to myself, I don’t think the Habitat for Humanity has that type of technology.
“Well I try not to because that’s expecting the negative. You need to do something if there is going to be a collapse.”
If you thought there would be a collapse coming, no matter how fast it comes at you, you would think making a test city would be priority number 1, not more advertisement, that you hate.
“fair comment, I disregard their logo and try to promote something more sensiable then.”
I would just do away with the flag period.
“Make items that are difficult to recycle.”
I don’t see how that makes them more profit since they are already recyclable unless you’re telling garbage men thank corporations for giving them more trash and pays them for it. Another secret hi5ing I doubt happens.
“Just so you know you’re watching “channel 666″ or whatever.”
I thought you wasn’t religious.
“What about the TV’s logo itself, even though your eye is looking at the screen there’s still the logo of the company that made the screen around the screen.”
I don’t think it’s in the way.
“Also what’s common is for a station to put their logo in a water-mark at the bottom right of the screen.”
I don’t see it.
“If it doesn’t use money it isn’t a “store”.”
Okay then you can barter.
“It maybe that a person might make such a comment because it might be something they do not want to hear.”
Like a non sequitur.
“Well there would be a science to making good movies”
If you replaced the word “Science” with “Creativity”, then I would agree.
“but it also depends how scientific you are in what you’re saying in your movie.”
I wouldn’t call filmmakers scientists, if you mean research, then that makes them a good researcher.
“would someone who has bipolar ask that question?”
Using the E word ? Yes.
“So you think the zeitgeist movement or the venus project is a business that insults money and claims that there isn’t enough money to save the planet while in fact they only want to make money? Seriously?”
The Venus Project is a for-profit company and I think Douglas Mallette, the head of TZM Tech, or whatever runs a for-profit business too, there’s no need to be surprised about their hypocrisy.
“You seem to be pessimist”
On the RBE idea, yes, see once upon a time, I thought some people wanted to prove me wrong and do a test city, but no, no.
“Are you against open source?”
No, I like money and don’t mind if TZM and TVP asking for it transparently for a test city, but it’s not that, I’m a pessimist because I think people are being taken advantage of.
“For example although scientology critics might have made assumptions about the workings of sceintology”
Maybe one day, something about the closed teams will leak out as more people get pissed off about how TZM is being ran.
“I remember critics once re-packaged a video that was released online by Peter Jorola Fresco on TZM’s youtube channel and claimed that zeitgeist didn’t want people to see the video.”
Oh that’s what happens when TZM censors on youtube.
“Are cult experts interested in zeitgeist?”
If you’re not interested in credentials, or aspiring cult experts, I’m not sure why you would ask that question.
“Here’s a challenge for you”
That challenge would be impossible, TZM only exist online, mainly, and people have collected screenshots and quotes based on the fat elf abuse and worship of Peter Joseph Merola and Jacque Fresco and Rick Ross [cult expert] dismissed them as benign fringe group with a star trek cult following. If more crazier shit happens with TZM, I’m sure we’ll blog about it, but I think it’s dead for the most part.
“Scientology_Inside_the_Cult_.flv”
The last part reminded me of someone wanting to commit suicide after thinking the Venus Project was scamming him.
“My goal is to encourage people to reassess value and for people to realise that love is more valuable than money.”
I think the world knows that already, but money is still used as a tool like anything else.
“So why not use zeitgeist for my goal?”
If you want the Zeitgeist Movement to be reduced to that being their goal, then that’s fine.
“How does the marketplace come into equilibrium in terms of supply equalling demand?”
You answered your own question, kind of.
“Say a group of people advocated the use of green energy instead of the current methods of obtaining energy.”
Then that’s great, people should be able to be self-sufficient on their own, the only real barrier would be saving money, a Zeitard [I tried to not say it lol] on facebook got mad at me because I told him he should save money to be self-sufficient, I mean, TZM day dream on transitions but bitch about saving money to be self-sufficient ? This is why the Zeitgeist Movement gets laughed at, they expect shit to fall on their laps and do nothing on their own, it’s retarded.
“I remember briefly once on the crap-a-vison (televison) that a shepherd (pastor) from a church admitted he didn’t like the use of the modern gadgets available and wanted to get his sheeple back into the church (that’s an example of a poor self-preservation strategy”
If you’re watching that pastor on TV, then I assume he still had the same packed audience when he said that, not because he was losing people, maybe he saw that we as a society are becoming tech-junkies and are always on games, internet, tv, etc and didn’t think that brought about good values, like, people being anti-social, etc. I don’t think that was a self-preservation strategy, I think that was just a reminder that we’re human beings and need to be around each other more and give love, to value love more as your goal is and for people not to be isolated all the time with electronics. I doubt religious people only say that too. No wonder why you had a problem with that pastor.
“For example the Rich, you can never fill a need for love with buying products”
I think a man would if he put a ring on it. I’m joking. But seriously, I think people feel love when people buy gifts for others and vice versa.
“They keep buying stuff because the stuff doesn’t fill their void”
Hoarders do that too and they are not rich, so I’m not sure if hoarding will stop in a RBE either.
“While reading what I say do you think I’m in it for the money?”
Of course not.
“I do already to those who are already polite with me.”
So you can’t be polite to bullies? Do you realise that the way to maintain a bully is to bully them?
“You have to download an article ?”
Do you want me to respond to you or use my time to read an article?
“That’s all I would expect from traders and investors myself, I leave the environment to the environmentalists.”
This leaves some people wanting to make the world rotten and others wanting to maintain it.
“In a RBE, I don’t know who would want to do that for free.”
The zeitgeist argument is that the process of invention creation is the reward in itself and not the money you get from inventing the item. People do open-source projects for free.
“If it wasn’t valuable to you in the first place, then I don’t understand why you would have looked for a job.”
The common religion of this culture is that money is valuable even if I do not value it. Forcing me to go along with the faith in money. It’s like trying to maintain muslim beliefs when born into a christian family.
“No I don’t think people with real credentials need to lie about their background.”
The credential itself is a lie because it does not prove experience, it’s a piece of paper.
“I don’t think it’s that easy.” It’s not impossible.
“I don’t think Scientologists even need a resume if they are working for a Scientology Company, the same logic can be applied for the Zeitgeist Movement.”
The zeitgeist movement has no credentials at all. Yet when you move up in Scientology you get credentials.
“I don’t understand how it would give them a bad image, workers being displaced is not a new thing.”
a principal of the marketplace when they say they need to create jobs, they mean people using their labour to get money. If machines replace that why would that not make a corporation or the marketplace itself look bad? If people cannot be employed because a machine has replaced their job they can not get money so they can not get what they need to live.
“I wouldn’t call the employer greedy for wanting her or his business to survive.”
Money temps people into becoming greedy money there is a scarce amount of money in the supply. As a business you want to hoard it all for yourself therefore winning the marketplace game. If you can get all the money you win.
“because you would want employers to be greedy for your argument to show validity.”
If the situation has greed as a byproduct that’s not me wanting employers to be greedy.
“the customers are always right”
The profit books are always right, fuck the people. If the human health was the concern they would produce no products that are harmful to human beings.
“somehow still greedy” The human behaviour is altered by the situation if the markplace allows for such greedy employer scenario.
“I think jobs that require skilled labor to plan, organize, develop, critical think won’t be easily replaceable compared to jobs in the past, especially jobs now that are based more on human interaction.”
Require skill, well part of the zeitgeist argument is the mundane jobs are being replaced by technology not the ones that require a lot of skill. Part of the zeitgeist argument is that the mundane jobs keep people in ignorance too. To quote the movie CUBE “keep your head down and keep it simple, no-one wants to see the full picture! life’s too complicated!”
“Go to a friend’s house then.” I go to the library more frequently to use the net than friend’s houses.
“It’s already being done now for those who need new body parts:”
Isn’t that awesome (download video)
“I thought careers were more fun.”
Well not for people who say they hate their careers but love their hobbies. If careers are not interesting to the human being as in the design of the job is boring to mostly all humans then something is wrong.
“I guess for condom commercials.”
So sexual messages are not in coke advertisements? The use of pretty girls to advertise products is everwhere! There’s bascially a pornographic advertisement I recently saw for one of those weight loss reality TV shows! It’s not just for advertising condoms. The use of nice looking people in advertising is used in many products. But the implications are typically when they have solgans like “you need this” or “the product you know they’ll love” Implying love for products over people. It’s not said directly “you will love this product more than your lover” No way would they say that.
“You can’t read people’s minds.” You can read body language which is close enough.
“Then comes testing.” Yep!
“I’ll look into that tho” All good!
“making a test city would be priority number 1, not more advertisement, that you hate.”
I don’t have the money to build a test city, I don’t hate advertising I hate what is advertised or how advertising techniques are used. In order to have a different social system we need to have different social values that support a new social system. In other words I don’t like monetary system cities at all. So I don’t want to see a venus project city built with the monetary system social values.
“I would just do away with the flag period.”
I should make a new picture again soon that symbolises project earth and promotes open source. Using a new earth logo and not the radio active one lol.
“I don’t see how that makes them more profit since they are already recyclable unless you’re telling garbage men thank corporations for giving them more trash and pays them for it. Another secret hi5ing I doubt happens.”
If you make products that are difficult to recycle that makes more of a scarcity forcing people to buy the same items again. Only the most corrupt secretly hi5 each other for doing the most destructive actions. There might be a thrill a person getings from doing the most destructive actions possible yet people who do corrupt actions in the end only hurt us and themselves.
“I don’t think it’s in the way.” If you look at the TV not the screen, you see their brand name, bam you’ve been advertised to.
“I don’t see it.” Can you see all channels around the planet?
“Okay then you can barter.” Barter sucks.
“non sequitur – illogical statements.” They might think they’re completely logical and no-one can provide anything new to them.
“If you replaced the word “Science” with “Creativity”, then I would agree.” science is creativity
“then that makes them a good researcher.” As viewers it’s our job to analyse good or bad research. and see how much of it holds up to the real world.
“Using the E word ? Yes.” Well I still don’t feel manic now.
“The Venus Project is a for-profit company and I think Douglas Mallette, the head of TZM Tech, or whatever runs a for-profit business too, there’s no need to be surprised about their hypocrisy.”
The major contradiction of course is that there isn’t enough money in the supply to save the planet. Yet this is what the system is the system is business. I’ve heard the argument that every JOHN SMITH is a corporation too.
“people wanted to prove me wrong and do a test city, but no, no.” What if people can prove that the current social values are not scientific?
“because I think people are being taken advantage of.” This is the nature of the marketplace!
“transparently for a test city” Of course you can’t sell love, therefore a the idea of a social system giving free love would not be popular towards the marketplace. Therefore you would have people stealing patents. I fucking hate copyright.
“something about the closed teams will leak out” I hope so too. It’s meant to a holographic movement. Have you ever seen the movie “FIGHT CLUB”? near the end of the film the guy who starts project mayhem has no control over it as a leader. As the anonymous take over the continue operations without the leader completely.
“Oh that’s what happens when TZM censors on youtube.” I agree with critics there, nothing should be censored. Yet I think it’s still on TZM’s youtube channel. I think the critic video is still on youtube as well because I was able to get it. On the introduction it just says that TZM does not want you to see this video.
“I’m not sure why you would ask that question.”
So there’s no cult experts with experience and knowledge just credentials?
“but I think it’s dead for the most part.” Time will tell, it’s not the zeitgeist movement exactly though it’s basically people that encourage open-source in anything that damages business. When politics says “freedom” do they mean “open-source”?
“commit suicide after thinking the Venus Project was scamming him.” Money is a scam.
“but money is still used as a tool like anything else.” If this tool makes people feel stress though debt then it isn’t good for your health
I’ll have to respond to the rest later here’s the overflow.
The following is overflow I wrote at home.
“License_to_Wed.flv” lol’d at trailer – thanx for that.
I want to respond to this statement again.
“I would say they are equally valuable, you need money for food and water. There has to be some equilibrium or else everyone would hoard everything and hurt other people’s lives. But air is everywhere.”
If there is an abundance of what people need to live you cannot hoard it because of the abundance. You can’t hoard air because if its abundance, yet we need to respect the machinery of nature so to speak that allows our current abundant supply of air to exist. We need to understand what mechanisms allow our air to be replenished and ensure we do not interfere with what allows the our air to be replenished. This train of thought should be placed on everything that a human being needs to live to guarantee humanity’s survival. Anything that allows detrimental actions to human health should be seen as a problem. Humanity should start valuing human life and what allows human life, it’s only logical. Right now money is a form of insanity because the value of money is seen as more valuable than human life.
The social values of a social system based on science that allows abundance rather than scarcity would train people to think that hoarding is not needed.
hoarding is a learned behaviour, and it would learned if the situation requires it to be learned. Any possibility that a hoarding behaviour would happen even if the situation didn’t require it would be overcome with education. Society will never be perfect so we can only try to educate while hoping people choose to become more logical. Yet a person might want to keep insane values because they have seen that the insane values that they’ve had for so long have worked in the past for them, so the assumption is that they will work in the future too. The reason our social values must constantly change to more logical ones is because of the exponential improvement our technology potentially has. (Metaphorically speaking; our path to divinity will make us more powerful than the Gods that have been imagined.)
Also I want to propose a goal for us, but before I mention the goal I want to mention what I think I know about the brain (I trust you to look up more information about the brain). Apparently the brain has levels of sophistication and a person’s personality I argue will depend on which levels of the brain the person is using.
You have the most basic level known as the reptilian brain, the lowest level functions are anger, selfishness, territorial instinct, acting without thinking involuntarily etc. In other words anger is built into us and its function is to maintain out existence. To feel the action for action to live.
The next level is more emotional, our ability to have more complex feelings than hate.
There might be other levels, but the most outer layer is used for the most complex forms of thought. What’s termed “critical thinking”. But what apparently can happen is the reptilian brain can cloud the outer layer; reason and common sense. The use of terrorism propaganda can ignite a person’s reptilian brain, so they can’t use complex thought and ask questions about the state of affairs.
Considering if this is the way our brains work, what we need to learn to do is ensure our reptilian brain does not cloud our most complex forms of thought. Why? Only using the most complex forms of thought will do if our goal is to make our world a better place. politicians, and the religious are more ruled by the lower levels of brain function. So when they say something stupid, it’s because of the way their environment has geared them into using their brain.
So we have to ask big questions and we need big answers to those questions, that way our most outer layers will be stimulated. What makes a healthy human being? What makes an unhealthy human being? Does our reality have destiny built into it or do we have to make up our destiny? Why do people lie? Why do some people get a thrill out of telling a lie?
Giving our hate to the world will not make us feel good. We must give our love to the world in order for our lives to be joyful. If that’s true then our destiny is to give our love to the world to avoid giving ourselves pain.
“So you can’t be polite to bullies?”
No.
“Do you realise that the way to maintain a bully is to bully them?”
That sounds like it would lead to hate.
“Do you want me to respond to you or use my time to read an article?”
I thought you were responding to me, I’ll post some more links, and a video too.
“This leaves some people wanting to make the world rotten and others wanting to maintain it.”
The rotten can go to jail and those who want to maintain this system will be RBE-free.
“The zeitgeist argument is that the process of invention creation is the reward in itself and not the money you get from inventing the item.”
I’m not sure if you’re going to find a janitor that will want to clean bathrooms for free based on the creation of.. cleanness.
“The common religion of this culture is that money is valuable even if I do not value it.”
I don’t see why the world has to revolve around you.
“The credential itself is a lie because it does not prove experience, it’s a piece of paper.”
I think it’s a lie to say that people get no experience at all before they get their “piece of paper”.
“The zeitgeist movement has no credentials at all. Yet when you move up in Scientology you get credentials.”
When you move up in TZM, studying it’s ideology, I wonder when you’re told that you’re values have changed so that you can live in a RBE:
“If machines replace that why would that not make a corporation or the marketplace itself look bad?”
Because customers don’t get fired.
“Money temps people into becoming greedy money there is a scarce amount of money in the supply.”
If it was scarce, I’m not sure why people would even bother, because there would be a limit to how rich you could be.
“If the situation has greed as a byproduct that’s not me wanting employers to be greedy.”
I guess greed can be found as a byproduct everywhere if people still hoard rather they are rich or poor.
“The profit books are always right, fuck the people.”
Customers are people.
“If the human health was the concern they would produce no products that are harmful to human beings.”
The secret hi5 argument again lol.
“well part of the zeitgeist argument is the mundane jobs are being replaced by technology not the ones that require a lot of skill.”
What’s mundane to you may require a lot skill if it’s the type of job you don’t like. But I think if anyone works the same job for a long time, it would probably seem mundane to them as well, it doesn’t mean that the job is completely useless, it just means it’s getting boring, even if it’s a job that person always wanted.
“I go to the library more frequently to use the net than friend’s houses.”
Have fun hoarding computer time that students need.
“Well not for people who say they hate their careers but love their hobbies.”
I never met that type of person.
“So sexual messages are not in coke advertisements?”
Lets see.
“The use of pretty girls to advertise products is everwhere!”
Dr. Pepper is changing that up, but it’s getting sexist, well, yeah, here’s another video:
“There’s bascially a pornographic advertisement I recently saw for one of those weight loss reality TV shows!”
Let those people brag, they deserve too, the people that lost weight of course.
“The use of nice looking people in advertising is used in many products.”
To be nice looking isn’t sexual, I think there’s a difference between the two.
“You can read body language which is close enough.”
Reading body language doesn’t stop small arguments, but it does mentally prepare you for them.
“If you look at the TV not the screen, you see their brand name, bam you’ve been advertised to.”
I don’t buy TVs to read the brand.
“Can you see all channels around the planet?”
No.
“Barter sucks.”
You want their to be a value shift, but no transitional value shift, that makes sense.
“They might think they’re completely logical and no-one can provide anything new to them.”
Annoying people isn’t providing anything new.
“science is creativity”
I thought Science was discovery.
“As viewers it’s our job to analyse good or bad research. and see how much of it holds up to the real world.”
A researcher we must review, and its movie, I agree.
“I’ve heard the argument that every JOHN SMITH is a corporation too.”
That sounds like a pseudolegal theory:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Strawman_theory
“What if people can prove that the current social values are not scientific?”
You can’t, everyone in this system is a specialist, which means, this system is more scientific then a RBE where people think they know everything when they just show interest in everything, like a person can’t do that today.
“This is the nature of the marketplace!”
It’s the nature of scams.
“Have you ever seen the movie “FIGHT CLUB”? near the end of the film the guy who starts project mayhem has no control over it as a leader. As the anonymous take over the continue operations without the leader completely.”
I’m not sure how that’s suppose to give TZM a good image.
“Time will tell”
Time has told.
“it’s not the zeitgeist movement exactly though”
So it is dead.
“it’s basically people that encourage open-source in anything that damages business.”
If they had open teams only, I would have believed you.
“When politics says “freedom” do they mean “open-source”?”
They mean transparency, if they used those words.
“Money is a scam.”
Apparently profits hi5 each other too, secretly.
“If this tool makes people feel stress though debt then it isn’t good for your health.”
They should get out of debt then.
“If there is an abundance of what people need to live you cannot hoard it because of the abundance.”
People who hoard live in abundance, everything is everywhere in their houses and still hoard.
“hoarding is a learned behaviour, and it would learned if the situation requires it to be learned.”
I never heard hoarders say they learned hoarding from their parents.
“Any possibility that a hoarding behaviour would happen even if the situation didn’t require it would be overcome with education.”
But still would be a problem.
“Society will never be perfect so we can only try to educate while hoping people choose to become more logical.”
Faith vs. Faith, I don’t see how a RBE is better, Science based my ass.
“What makes a healthy human being?”
Not being in a cult.
“What makes an unhealthy human being?”
Being in a cult.
“Does our reality have destiny built into it or do we have to make up our destiny?”
You do your best with the hand life gives you.
“Why do people lie?”
Now that’s a big one.
“Why do some people get a thrill out of telling a lie?”
Google.
So you can’t be polite to bullies? No. Well If I’m right then you’ll find out that your actions create bullies.
“The rotten can go to jail and those who want to maintain this system will be RBE-free.”
Jails create more decay. Think of the prison guards that are forced to become bullies. Maintaining the montary system ensures death for humanity.
“I’m not sure if you’re going to find a janitor that will want to clean bathrooms for free based on the creation of.. cleanness.”
I was talking before about how the mundane jobs are aimed towards being replaced by technology remember?
“I don’t see why the world has to revolve around you.”
You’re telling me to shut up if I’m legitimately unhappy? How compassionate!
“get no experience at all before they get their “piece of paper”.”
The experience is corrupted through people being under threat by debt.
” I wonder when you’re told that you’re values have changed so that you can live in a RBE:”
It’s not individual it’s collective. Tell me when zeitgeist starts passing out pieces of paper to say you’ve learned something. (downloading vid)
“Because customers don’t get fired.”
Customers are “fired” from being customers when they don’t have any money to use.
“because there would be a limit to how rich you could be.”
The rich don’t think like that, they think their consumerism can go on indefinitely.
“I guess greed can be found a byproduct everywhere if people still hoard rather they are rich or poor.”
This is a sickness of the monetary-market.
“The secret hi5 argument again lol.” Of course since to you it’s impossible it must not be happening.
“What’s mundane to you” for example pressing a red button all day would not be considered mundane by all?
“even if it’s a job that person always wanted.” Change is required in activity for the human being to make life interesting. Before I only did pictures for TZM now I’m trying to have intelligent conversations a critic.
“I never met that type of person.” So they must not exist? Hi there I’m someone who hates pretty much all the careers that are advertised by I like my hobbies.
“Dr. Pepper is changing that up” Of course they’re going to change it up, but from where I stand the use of people and misleading slogans sell products.
“Let those people brag, they deserve too, the people that lost weight of course.”
It’s before the season started, it was a picture of one of those trainers completely in the nudeyet sitting in a way to cover herself. Is there anything wrong with a pretty nude girl not really, but when it’s used to sell a reality TV show then I’m suspect.
“To be nice looking isn’t sexual, I think there’s a difference between the two.”
I play the joke on my friends all the time that what they’re selling is people and not products when they use people to advertise products.
“but no transitional value shift” Suggest effective ways for a transitional value shift please.
“Science was discovery.” If you don’t use science in new creative ways you go around in an insanity loop.
“You can’t” I can’t because you don’t want to be proven wrong.
“more scientific then a RBE” I feel unhappy in a monetary system, have fun not caring if or not people are happy.
“It’s the nature of scams.” employment is fraud, money is a scam.
“I’m not sure how that’s suppose to give TZM a good image.”
I’m not talking about good or bad images, I’m talking about how groups start to function on their own.
“Time has told.” Then you don’t have to do anything, you win.
“If they had open teams only, I would have believed you.”
What stops a person from doing things that advocate the zeitgeist movement’s views? To be a scientologist for example YOU NEED TO PAY FOR THEIR COURSES. In the zeitgeist movement, you look at the videos for free online.
“Apparently profits hi5 each other too, secretly.” Am I allowed to speak using metaphor?
“They should get out of debt then.” How can you have a monetary system without debt???
“learned hoarding” It must be impossible then to learn behaviour because of an environemtal situation.
“But still would be a problem.” Problems are here to be solved.
“Not being in a cult.” you’re very black and white.
“Now that’s a big one.” Use your big brain then.
“Google.” lol’d.
Anything I missed? Anymore concerns?
The following is overflow.
Before I respond to the last youtube video you linked me, if I say something that triggers good questions out of you yet I’m unable to give you satisfactory answers, please try to look for people who aren’t smart alecks that can answer you. Thanks in advance.
Smart aleck (noun)
1. An upstart who makes conceited, sardonic, insolent comments (see image)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/gtyk.jpg/
“Venus Project activist Put up or Shut the fuck up!.flv”
Firstly before I even watch the video, the name needs to be highlighted as being intimidating itself. The best way to maintain a bully is to bully them <– please prove me wrong on that single statement, because sometimes I hope I'm wrong
There's nothing wrong with "Emergency" as I understand it being described. TVP like TZM talks about the mechanisms of the marketplace as holding humanity back in the longrun. The argument is we will never be a peaceful, civilised, and technologically advanced if the marketplace is allowed to remain in operation because it's based on people fighting with each other for money.
"There is a major consequence of the monetary-market system, and it runs throughout its entire operation; inequality" -Moving Forward
Yet "Emergency" is still a business, every entity in this system is a business! You can't call any organisation moral since every organisation is a business in a monetary system. There's only going to be immoral groups at varying degrees.
"It wouldn't work if I were ethical (in the market), so your system's not designed to meet the wellbeing of people" -Zeitgeist:Addendum
"Realistic" in terms of what can be done in the monetary system. Since there's only a limited amount of money available in supply to spend on helping they can only do so much. Culturally it's more popular to spend money on war than it is on helping people.
"God has a hard-on for marines, because we kill everything we see" -Full metal jacket
"Ask them, what they hell they have done?" The way the question is asked is antagonistic, but I'll answer it for you (because I like our conversations). I want you to feel appreciative if I respond with intelligence.
The image it shows is of activism when the question is asked, people who support "Emergency". Not everyone is majoring in sophisticated fields of science to help people in need of help.
People who support TVP or TZM support the idea of all people majoring in sophisticated fields of science to help people. Yet this can't be done in a monetary system since all people can't afford such expensive university courses because of the scarcity nature of money (inflation). University education is threating. Why? Under the scenario of both passing and failing you have to cough up mega stacks of cash to afford the courses. Under threat I suggest people don't gain knowledge as well.
He even says "Sorry for my expressive nature here but…" Because he knows he's being a bully.
"When they've done absoultely nothing" Attempting to talk to you in an intelligent manner without completely relying on video should be appreciated by you. I want to take sides of both zeitgeist critics and zeitgiest members. Being on the side of Love means you take everyone's side in terms of what has been scientifically proven to be good for people.
Calling people "fools" is acting like a bully. Trying to make people angry over the internet doesn't help at all, that action will not help humanity.
"Fantasy" We've discussed this before. Analyse the feasibility of a "fantasy" based on the surrounding technology and then test it in reality. If we were in caveman times and someone was drawing ar circular city on a wall then we would call him a dreamer, yet we have to recognise that we're now in the information age.
First there was the agricultural revolution, then the industrial revolution, and now we're in the information age. What comes next? the Cybernated or Cybernetics age?
Yet the question is does the limited supply of money in an economy hinder possible testing that might make the marketplace obsolete? Will the marketplace church allow open-source heresy?
The following statement from that user is just plain intimidating.
"well do your research, and listen to them, listen to them, listen to them, Well I'll tell you what, you do your research, in fact better than that "do your research", get off your arses and go and help somebody. Go to the third world, go to a war torn place. Get your fucking checkbooks out, build something worth something to humanity. Don't be all talk. Don't be all text. do something or shut the fuck up."
The design of the marketplace is to take advantage of people's ignorance. Period. You make money from people being unhappy and foolish.
"Let me send you the free miracle spring water." -Reverend Peter Popoff
Are you going to tell me that mechanisms that allow Peter Popoff's religious business to exist, do not exist?
Please look up how the brain functions in order to understand my response better. The character of the reptilian brain is to act with anger and without thought. "Enough chatter, time for action!". This can cloud the upper levels of the brain concerned with more complex forms of thought what people call "critical thinking".
The more you "do your research" the more humanity will know how to proceed in terms of making good decisions. Good decisions meaning, how do we end war? how do we end religion? If the people who engage in war and religion are unfortunately unintelligent, then we need to be able to outsmart them by using education so we can maintain humanity. They're going to kill humanity if we don't think and act.
This video is a classic example of someone who wants to ignite the reptilian brain in people. Also metaphorically speaking it sounds like he's telling me to go burn in hell. I don't want the third world or war torn places to exist, the effort spent on war should be spent on improving those circumstances. I don't have a checkbook large enough to cover that and collectively we don't either. There's not enough money to save the planet. Am I all talk? Well with enough talk and enough thinking we can come up with intelligent ways to act to convince all people that a global society based on love is the way to go. The reptilian brain doesn't offer what the cortex gives us, the reptilian brain can't love. It's more of a challenge to speak with intelligence than to become the slave of our reptilian brain.
End of response. the following is more overflow.
Here's a right to copy logo I made instead of copyright. (I hope you like it)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/rights.jpg/
I want to quote Zeitgeist: Requiem For One.
"I believe that the more time we spend choosing to run the deep inner peace circuitry of our right hemispheres, the more peace we will project into the world. And the more peaceful our planet will be."
So it's a matter of how we use our brains. Do we want to figure out how to create a peaceful world? Or do we want to continue the current world of havoc that includes bullies, war, poverty, murder, immoral or corrupt behaviour, rape, thievery, and all the other disturbances that we keep hearing about on the news. The easiest choice of course is to do nothing, it's up to us. Yet if we do choose to do something about the havoc on this planet, then we have to work together. It's like what anonymous said in the youtube video; Greetings world we are anonymous; "It's important that when we do act we should all act as one" of course to maximise effectiveness.
I think it's funny how the news is called the news because it doesn't offer anything new. It only offers insanity because it doesn't offer any solutions to the disturbances they report. It's almost as if they want to report disturbances like the police seem to want criminals to exist. "No one escapes the law" seems to be the motto of the police and journalists yet I'm escaping the law right now. I break copyright law all the time.
Here's a challenge you might be up for then since the other one (right now) is impossible. From my interpretation it seems that one of the main problems critics have with TZM is that TZM is not building anything correct? Well we have to know what exactly the ultimate goal of TZM is. Is TZM's goal what critics assert? That they just want to build those nice looking circular cities so they can gawp at them?
From my experience here's what I suggest TZM's goal is. TZM's ultimate goal is to figure out a set of social values based on science that don't support the use of money, barter, or anything else that resembles any form of marketplace. The goal isn't exactly to build circular cities.
The challenge is to ask members of TZM what they personally think the goal of TZM is.
After you ask them what they think TZM's goal is, tell them the goal for TZM I just layed out and then ask them if they think that's what TZM's goal is.
That way I can know if or not I'm really a member of TZM. I'd be interested in knowing the results of such an investigation because I never talk to other members of TZM.
If you think we're going to just go in a loop then record this conversation yet let's not continue it because continuing a loop coversation has no meaning.
“Well If I’m right then you’ll find out that your actions create bullies.”
I didn’t know someone that’s not a bully can create bullies.
“Jails create more decay.”
I guess those people shouldn’t have been assholes, but seriously, people in prison are able to get an education too and get pieces of papers, read books, lift weights, and therapy to talk about how they ended up where they are now to kill time that’s given to them to reform themselves, shit, if they are that good, their time can be shorter. If jails are decaying, then there should be jails, better jails I think will make people a little less.. aberrant. I would to see money being spent that way instead of on wars. I also think it’s horrible that non-violent offenders [drug addicts] are in prison for decades, that’s fucking stupid. You might think I defend the status quo, but I don’t.
“Think of the prison guards that are forced to become bullies.”
The crooked ones
“Maintaining the montary system ensures death for humanity.”
The population I think is still going up.
“I was talking before about how the mundane jobs are aimed towards being replaced by technology remember?”
But there are still janitors.
“You’re telling me to shut up if I’m legitimately unhappy?”
I didn’t tell you to shut up, if you expect the world to revolve around you, you’re in for some major disappointment.
“The experience is corrupted through people being under threat by debt.”
They still get experience and people get out of debt when they get those jobs [which pay more] with the piece of paper that they came out of school with.
“It’s not individual it’s collective.”
But I heard Peter Joseph Merola say to Joe Rogan that everyone is in the Zeitgeist Movement rather the like it or not, so the collective is there, to him, I guess, no more excuses.
“Tell me when zeitgeist starts passing out pieces of paper to say you’ve learned something.”
I wonder if they do from that Zeitgeist Academy website lol.
“Customers are “fired” from being customers when they don’t have any money to use.”
They don’t stop having money permanently.
“The rich don’t think like that, they think their consumerism can go on indefinitely.”
Well then money isn’t scarce then if they actually keep getting more money.
“for example pressing a red button all day would not be considered mundane by all?”
I don’t think jobs like that exist, ever existed.
“Change is required in activity for the human being to make life interesting.”
Which is why they have hobbies.
“So they must not exist?”
I think it’s very rare.
“Hi there I’m someone who hates pretty much all the careers that are advertised by I like my hobbies.”
What’s related to your hobbies is something I think you can find as a career, like I told arcticfishes, there are job fairs too. I think I told him.
“Of course they’re going to change it up, but from where I stand the use of people and misleading slogans sell products.”
That Dr. Pepper commercial was straight forward, it’s not for women lol. Shit’s sexist tho.
“It’s before the season started”
I wonder what show that is. The way it’s being promoted doesn’t make sense to me.
“I play the joke on my friends all the time that what they’re selling is people and not products when they use people to advertise products.”
People buy products, not people.
“If you don’t use science in new creative ways you go around in an insanity loop.”
You’re discrediting the Scientific method lol.
“I can’t because you don’t want to be proven wrong.”
But you skip the specialist argument.
“I feel unhappy in a monetary system, have fun not caring if or not people are happy.”
Like I told arcticfishes, compared to 100 years ago to now, we have way more programs now to help people, I think the monetary system does care about people.
“employment is fraud”
Without machines being able to replace everyone, employment is reality, people need incentive [money] if you want them to do something for you and why I think a RBE is impossible.
“I’m talking about how groups start to function on their own.”
No I think Peter Joseph Merola is still the “global coordinator”.
“Then you don’t have to do anything”
I just reply, that’s it now days.
“What stops a person from doing things that advocate the zeitgeist movement’s views?”
People in closed teams talking shit about ex-members, infighting I think caused TZM to start failing from the beginning.
“To be a scientologist for example YOU NEED TO PAY FOR THEIR COURSES.”
Peter Joseph Merola came close wanting to charge people to be forum members, at first I thought he was trying to be funny, but I think he was being serious too.
“In the zeitgeist movement, you look at the videos for free online.”
About the video shit, Peter Joseph Merola did upload a video to explain why he advocated his cult and then took it down, then it was uploaded by others, that you can’t find on the TZM channel or the Zeitgeist Movie channel which is probably why people stop making those type of videos.
“Am I allowed to speak using metaphor?”
So you resorted to repeating yourself metaphorically as I said that cancer hospitals and corporations don’t secretly hi5 each other working together to kill people thru pollution, no, that doesn’t make sense.
“How can you have a monetary system without debt???”
I was talking about the individual, you advocate the strawman theory, unless you suddenly just dropped that theory, btw, I was ignoring that because I never seen anyone in the Zeitgeist Movement promote that shit even being in love with Jordan Maxwell, the guy that exposed Peter Joseph’s last name on Coast to Coast in 2008 before any critic started saying Merola.
“It must be impossible then to learn behaviour because of an environemtal situation.”
But this is happening and I don’t think people before they become hoarders learn from hoarders to hoard and I’m sure how they would learn to hoard from the environment if the environment they were in was not a hoarded one, but I doubt this is the case, to me, it looks natural to be greedy.
“you’re very black and white.”
I don’t think it was that big of a question.
“Use your big brain then.”
There are many reasons for it, so many reasons that I think people do it for thrills and do it for not thrills.
“Smart aleck (noun)”
LOL
If you want to assimilate yourself, you can, personally, I don’t see the need for it if transhumanism to Peter Joseph Merola is wearing glasses, using a wheelchair, cane, etc which I think he disagrees with Jacque Fresco on where he thinks people in the future will have an extra eye in the back of their head. If you’re asking where I heard that from, it was from Q&A videos from the TZM youtube channel, that disappeared as well, all of them, this was brought to my attention when James Kush couldn’t find the video where Peter Joseph Merola tries to pretend he’s not in love with Manly P. Hall.
“It wouldn’t work if I were ethical (in the market), so your system’s not designed to meet the wellbeing of people” -Zeitgeist:Addendum”
I think people do what they can to get more customers by lowering rates for whatever, that’s why you won’t see people working for a company pointing to another company saying they have better prices than them. I remember that scene you’re talking about in Zeitgeist: Addendum and I still think competition isn’t going anywhere.
“Under the scenario of both passing and failing you have to cough up mega stacks of cash to afford the courses.”
People don’t have to take a shitload of courses in one semester, they save money and reduce stress.
“He even says “Sorry for my expressive nature here but…” Because he knows he’s being a bully.”
I think he’s trying not to be as he expressed how annoyed he was with people for TZM.
“Attempting to talk to you in an intelligent manner without completely relying on video should be appreciated by you.”
People speaking to you with thought stopping cliches is not talking with an intelligent manner.
“Calling people “fools” is acting like a bully.”
You should be thankful he said that instead of Zeitard.
“how do we end religion?”
That’s fucked up, you want to end religion over a pastor that was giving truth about how we’re not close to each other like we use to be because technology [being around it too much] making people fat and anti-social, that’s not love, stop going reptilian on me lol.
“Do we want to figure out how to create a peaceful world?”
I think we’re getting there, I never got a response from on the Steven Pinker video about violence declining since the beginning of time.
“I think it’s funny how the news is called the news because it doesn’t offer anything new.”
New current events happen, so it’s news.
‘The goal isn’t exactly to build circular cities.”
I expect they would practice RBE in their test city too.
“The challenge is to ask members of TZM what they personally think the goal of TZM is.”
Advertising was priority number 1 the last time I checked on their facebook page, from the poll thing.
“After you ask them what they think TZM’s goal is, tell them the goal for TZM I just layed out and then ask them if they think that’s what TZM’s goal is.”
They will probably disagree and say make more films.
http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/
“I didn’t know someone that’s not a bully can create bullies.”
you’re ignorant of the effects of your own actions. Bully actions create bullies, not being polite to certain people.
“I guess those people shouldn’t have been assholes”
Perfect example of a bully statement
“a better jail I think will make people a little less.. aberrant”
True there.
“I also think it’s horrible that non-violent offenders [drug addicts] are in prison for decades, that’s fucking stupid”
You agree with something zeitgiest says!
“You might think I defend the status quo, but I don’t.”
I hope you do not, I can’t know for sure.
“The population I think is still going up.”
If the resources do not support that going up population, what will happen to that population?
“But there are still janitors.”
The soild belief is that humans ONLY deserve to live if they have employment. Under what we know now about technology can we introduce a self-cleaning bathroom? The only way to know is the analyse the technology we have not “I don’t think we do”.
Yet there is not a motivation to do this because of the marketplace’s beliefs about human beings.
“if you expect the world to revolve around you, you’re in for some major disappointment.”
If society does not start giving love to itself then we’re in for a world of pain
“They still get experience and people get out of debt when they get those jobs [which pay more] with the piece of paper that they came out of school with.”
Not everyone can do this because of the scarce supply of money in the system, if all debts were repaid there would be no money in society.
Someone has to go into debt for there to be a money supply, the money does not magically come into existence from some unknown source.
“But I heard Peter Joseph Merola say to Joe Rogan that everyone is in the Zeitgeist Movement rather the like it or not, so the collective is there, to him, I guess, no more excuses.”
He’s talking about the meaning of the word ZEITGEIST, we are all a part of the social climate and we create that social climate with our attitudes thoughts and use of technology.
“They don’t stop having money permanently.”
temporarily can make you feel like a social outcast, as in it’s offensive to some people for you not to have money on you.
By the way, please say if or not you enjoy our conversations.
“Well then money isn’t scarce then if they actually keep getting more money.”
Apparently the system will implode for two reasons, resources limit, and the massive weight of debt will be too much to be ensured anymore.
“I don’t think jobs like that exist, ever existed.”
I was being metaphorical, I can only work with what I’ve got.
“I think you can find as a career”
Haven’t found anything. the marketplace does not offer love or compassion for payment for any service I could do. It only offers money as payment. That’s not my incentive.
“Shit’s sexist tho.”
Glad you recognise “sexist” as something not very good. The division of male vs. female is getting old.
“I wonder what show that is. The way it’s being promoted doesn’t make sense to me.”
Hah! that sounds like what advertisers want! you want to wonder what it is but not understand advertising techniques.
“You’re discrediting the Scientific method lol.”
Scientific method as I understand it allows for change by constantly updating data, marketplace beliefs can’t deal with change.
“People buy products, not people.”
That’s the joke! It’s what it looks like.
“But you skip the specialist argument.”
Please repeat it, concerning specialists, the zeitgeist movement or TVP advocates generalists not specialists so they can put mopre pieces of the puzzle together.
“I think the monetary system does care about people.”
There’s nothing wrong with a friendly reminder that we must experiment new ways of managing society to potenitally gain a better way of doing things. I don’t like the marketplace beliefs, if this was a democracy marketplace beliefs would be discussed if they themselves have value. But they are not, Marketplace beliefs to me seem to be assumed as the word of God (METAPHORICALLY SPEAKING).
“Without machines being able to replace everyone, employment is reality”
Is there enough money is suppy to test new machines that might replace employment? Or is it a system that tries to maintain itself in this way?
“No I think Peter Joseph Merola is still the “global coordinator”.”
You have to seperate the meanings of “global coordinator” and “Nazi dictator” I don’t get Nazi commands from master Joseph Merola Peter.
“I just reply, that’s it now days.”
it’s good you see value in conversations then. Yet if someone is still the “global coordinator” then zeitgeist can’t be dead. It might be DYING to you. But there’s a difference between DEAD and DYING. Still there’s the matter of the name-less movement that advocates open-source – this hurts business.
“infighting”
I agree this is not productive.
“probably why people stop making those type of videos.”
I looked up some of the videos that advocate the zeitgeist movements and some of them sounded like very warm and intelligent people. If people want to make videos that say why they support zeitgeist Peter Fresco can’t stop them with magic mind control powers!
“So you resorted to repeating yourself metaphorically as I said that cancer hospitals and corporations don’t secretly hi5 each other working together to kill people thru pollution, no, that doesn’t make sense.”
The actions of working to together to kill people through pollution CAN ONLY HAPPEN through indirect action. No I don’t think people are happy about doing those sorts of actions, they would be ashamed of themselves. Yet this is what the system is, and like insanity you just repeat the same actions without looking at what you’re doing to course the problem.
“I was talking about the individual, you advocate the strawman theory, unless you suddenly just dropped that theory”
I get into the strawman document you linked me later, I look forward to your response to it.
“But this is happening and I don’t think people before they become hoarders learn from hoarders to hoard and I’m sure how they would learn to hoard from the environment if the environment they were in was not a hoarded one, but I doubt this is the case, to me, it looks natural to be greedy.”
hoarders learn from hoarders? you know that for a fact? It looks natural to be greedy? I could say it looks natural for a girl to learn how to act like a dog from dogs! There’s no such thing as “it looks natural” there is only learned behaviour, and we must assess the behaviour as being healthy or not to the survival of the human race.
“I don’t think it was that big of a question.” What makes people healthy is not a big question? You must know EVERYTHING about the human being.
“There are many reasons for it, so many reasons that I think people do it for thrills and do it for not thrills.”
You would have to find out if or not people get a thrill out of lying, for example, I’m really a big business owner and I fuck all my sexy women staff.
Running out of time, the following is overflow I’ve copied the rest of your post. Cya.
“RationalWiki – strawman theory”
Can you prove I have a name? If you tell me that I have this name “JOHN SMITH” and I must believe that I have that name, that is fascist. What if I don’t hold a belief in having a name? who would not want to “allowing one to escape their debts and responsibilities”? Why do I have to be responsibe for paying a debt to a bank if the value of the money is based on “confidence” according to “modern money mechanics”? Are you saying someone’s going to force me to have “confidence” in money? I remember hearing once that a person exclaimed that they didn’t believe in identity and they were arrested for just saying that.
“5000$ fine if you use it on your tax return” The only way to get people to do things they do not want to do is to force them. If I don’t pay the “5000$” are you going to drag me to jail? There isn’t enough money to save myself let alone the planet. What a loving social system, do you think this page would convince me to support the monetary system lol?
the “debunking” section is fascism, you should be able to see this.
“there is a difference between what is known as a ‘natural person’ and that of a corporate person” Yes…but…
“They have never recognised a right to distance oneself from ones person”
What they’re saying is you don’t have the right to be anonymous, you must comply or call yourself a name. Real free country isn’t it? Why don’t I have the right to distance myself from my corporate person? According to this I break the law every time I post anonymously on this site. Because this social system is a business, you must be a corporation.
They must instill a whole lot of fear into you to make you think using force is moral. For example, you won’t give me your credit card password because it’s a untrusting society. All law is just ink on paper, the only way to make it real is through force. You can write laws all day, it doesn’t mean shit without force.
If you thought this document was correct you wouldn’t distance yourself from your corporate person and call yourself “Mario Brotha”. You’re proving that document wrong by not calling yourself your corporate person name in this conversation. In fact a lot of people are distancing themselves from their corporate person on the ineternet, seems like they had to make calling yourself your corporate person name cool again so they invented FACEBOOK – I’m not saying that’s 100% true I’m only suggesting an idea. The law only applies if people obey it, our reality has no taboos. This is why scientifically defined morals need to be established, so the value of law is worth more than it is currently.
“If a court can establish your identity, regardless of your consent or cooperation, then they are free to engage in proceedings and sanctions against you.”
What the courts are engaging in is fascist, fraud, and forceful, wow all F words. ultimately you have no identity. Your identity has to be invented when you’re born (birth certificate) and to use that made up identity against you is fraud. If someone sent me a letter claiming I needed to go to court I can dismiss that as; return to sender mail fraud. Why? Because you can only open the letter with your fingers if you believe you’re “JOHN SMITH”.
A court can potentially send you a letter claiming you’ve broken any law, you should notice how it’s YOU that must defend your innocence, not the court’s. Yet finding people guilty of actions doesn’t help since the courts justify torturing people by sending them to jail. An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. Torture by sending people to jail spreads misery and not happiness. Jails are not correctional institutions, they are TORTURE FACILITIES!
“They have never recognised a right” What? are they going to magically appear in my house and stop me from writing “RETURN TO SENDER: MAIL FRAUD” on the letter and posting it in the mail? lol reminds me of the idea of the “thought police”. The best way to prove law wrong is through science. The best way to get someone to obey the law is to convince them to force themselves to obey it. Like the new internet “Soopa” law, under threat website owners must become more like cyber police. This conversation might be considered a threat to national security by the hyper-sensitive because we’re discussing matters that involve the foundations of society.
Remember the picture I linked you? “KNOW YOUR PLACE, SHUT YOUR FACE – a Message from the Office of Homeland Security” Makes me wonder why “Homeland Security” would allow the internet to exist if they didn’t want people to talk to each other, maybe they will shut down the internet then.
the following is more overflow.
If zeitgeist was not threatening to you, you wouldn’t post any comments about the cult at all. You wouldn’t care what they do at all. It can’t be dead enough! People making apparently critical comments or videos of the zeitgeist movement is a sign that they really find love offensive, why? because they’re almost always in a negative or pessimistic light. It’s what is constantly referenced implying you want to spread general pessimism like a cancer.
If they were dead and critics knew it, they would claim complete victory by ceasing any criticism because the goal had been achieved. Remember that dead horse picture that was on this site awhile ago? It can’t be too dead if there were articles posted after that one. You can’t get more dead than dead.
If people promote open-source projects (that’s what the RBE is) there’s going to be people that will oppose open-source because they believe in business. Do you understand how open-source is bad for business?
If you keep any secrets about what you do, you’re like what you claim the zeitgeist movement is like. Unless everyone’s going to start sharing all their youtube passwords with each other lol.
“Zeitgeist_-_People_Are_Not_Ready_for_a_RBE.flv”
“Not ready” If critics are saying “fuck you” and things like that, no we’re not ready for a civilised society at all. Bullies would make the venus project into havoc.
Notice how he doesn’t say WHY people say we’re not ready for an RBE. He takes it as an implication that we’re saying “you’re not good enough”.
“Make people ready” you make yourself ready by educating yourself. Discover how our reality works. For example if I’m right, and bullying people creates bullies then your attitude of refusing to be polite to bullies will ensure an uncivilised society to continue. Having fun wallowing in hate?
It’s not about making cities it’s about changing social values to enable better cities to be built. I think you want to misinterpret zeitgeist because people loving each other without money is offensive to you, just the very idea.
bullies are not ready to be caring. He thinks money equals success LOL!
If the zeitgeist movement is such a non-issue to this person I can’t understand why this video was even made in the first place.
If we can prove something is immoral then that will make a person feel uncomfortable to continue to engage in that activity. Whether you can do it or not. The person might have to desperately reassure themselves that what they’re doing is moral even when they’re a bully.
Don’t get to tell us we’re not ready? Well this person listened to what they said, and was offended though! Then they’re advertising zeitgeist be mentioning that they listened to it. They have told you that you’re not ready! It’s simple! Don’t go onto the internet if you don’t want to hear anything zeitgeist has to say if it’s only an internet movemet. It’s your choice to listen and to criticise anything they have to say. There are other places around the internet a person could go other than engaging in zeitgeist stuff if zeitgeist is such a non-issue. A bunch of people who apparently sit and do nothing seem to be threatening to some youtube users, isn’t that interesting?? They can’t be sitting and doing nothing if people are threatened by them or has society gone completely insane to think people doing nothing is a threat? By the way do you have any proof that ALL the zeitgeist members are going to become killers yet? Or is assumption all you have?
Critics publicise zeitgeist by mentioning it, in a negative or positive light. It’s possible some critics only want their point of view about zeitgeist to be heard meaning they’ll leave some things out in a systematic derogatory form of propaganda to paint a picture of what they think zeitgeist is proposing. He doesn’t want peace, he’s insulting people.
Bullies are their own worst enemies I pity them.
The big problem I see commonly with zeitgeist critics though is that they mainly seem to be pessimistic about the world.
The guy who made the video “the last word on utopia” was right, he’s going to be unpopular because of his own pessimistic thinking. He evidently knows his own contradiction to an extent, yet you’re delusional if you think you can create a postive world through your pessimistic thinking and insolent comments. People don’t like insolent comments. That’s why I gave you a link to the show DEATH NOTE, where the protagonist attempts to create a loving world through killing people, it’s impossible.
I could go on debunking these sorts of videos for you, but they won’t be debunked according to you because I suspect critics want to maintain their pessimistic thinking because they would have to admit to themselves they might be wrong to change their thinking. These videos to you, can’t be debunked because it would affect your beliefs too much. Having fun being offended by the idea of people loving each other without money in a global social system? This pattern was observed in KeithTruth’s criticism of the zeitgeist movement.
“That alone is enough to expose zeitgeist’s goal’s, a one world system, that’s what we’re supposed to be fighting as the truth movement” -KeithTruth
The encouragment of fighting instead of global cooperation is pessimism. Can there be global cooperation without corporate globalisation?
I suspected the youtube user below to be correct, but I feel it was important for me to prove it to myself.
http://www.youtube.com/user/philhellenes
You’re only going to give yourself a world of pain if you don’t give love to the world. Can you bring mostly positivity to the table? If you can’t you won’t be considered as valuable by people in terms of what you think except for other pessimists. Your audience is mainly going to be pessimists if you’re a pessimists.
I suggest when TZM members give the generic line “well, what’s your soultion??” what they mean is they want you to be more positive and they don’t like your pessimism. Generally I don’t believe people like pessimists, so you can’t expect zeitgeist members to accept you. I think it’s natural for humans to want to avoid pessimism. I’m assuming the goal is to reach zeitgeist members with reason and logic? Well you won’t be able to if zeitgeist critics rely on pessimism. Because pessimism is irrational and uncreative.
So all I can say to you is to try to stop being such a pessimist if you are one. If as a critic that is your strategy, it will fail to have any kind of positive effect.
“you’re ignorant of the effects of your own actions.”
I think I use to “maintain” bullies in TZM, but since it’s dead, I don’t anymore, but holding a mirror to someone to me isn’t bullying.
“Perfect example of a bully statement”
Right after that, I said “but seriously”.
“You agree with something zeitgiest says!”
I don’t think I ever heard a critic say they do a shitty job pointing out problems.
“If the resources do not support that going up population, what will happen to that population?”
If resources run out, you can’t have a Resource-Based Economy without.. resources.
“The soild belief is that humans ONLY deserve to live if they have employment.”
I don’t think it’s illegal to be a bum in the monetary system and you’re arrested and you’re put in the electric chair.
“Under what we know now about technology can we introduce a self-cleaning bathroom?”
According to Z3 it does, but to me, no, too bad there’s no source guide for Moving Forward, supposedly people for TZM is suppose to be scientific and not follow shit blindly, pffffffft.
“if all debts were repaid there would be no money in society.”
There’s debt forgiveness.
“He’s talking about the meaning of the word ZEITGEIST”
I still disagree, the world isn’t dead, just TZM.
“as in it’s offensive to some people for you not to have money on you.”
Companies don’t send you angry letters for not continuing to buy what they have lol.
“By the way, please say if or not you enjoy our conversations.”
I do, I thought about making a Q&A page on my site on what I agree with and what I disagree with from TZM, the movies, etc before we even started debating, so since I stopped blogging, that may be in the works soon, I can’t let this go to waste and I think I haven’t touched on so much stuff ever with anyone criticizing or defending it, I can’t let any comment I made here, other site, facebook, youtube, etc go to waste, sure, I can blog and blog, but I think if I can make something centralized, it will be helpful for a lot of people interested in Zeitgeist in some way.
“I was being metaphorical, I can only work with what I’ve got.”
I can’t tell sometimes.
“the marketplace does not offer love or compassion for payment for any service I could do.”
Be a therapist, a school counselor, etc.
“It only offers money as payment. That’s not my incentive.”
It’s a win win and you can move out of your parents’ house.
“Hah! that sounds like what advertisers want! you want to wonder what it is but not understand advertising techniques.”
Just like Z4, ambiguity, what a hypocrite Peter Joseph Merola is.
“the zeitgeist movement or TVP advocates generalists not specialists so they can put mopre pieces of the puzzle together.”
That leaves room for more people to bullshit about themselves, in a RBE even, to fit in, as you say, to not feel like social outcasts in their minds, well, I think the monetary system tries to prevent that.
“But they are not, Marketplace beliefs to me seem to be assumed as the word of God (METAPHORICALLY SPEAKING).
The invisible hand was a metaphor by Adam Smith which is based on Science, not an assumption:
“Yet if someone is still the “global coordinator” then zeitgeist can’t be dead.”
He thinks he’s the dictator of the world, he’s delusional, those damn logos got to him.
“The actions of working to together to kill people through pollution CAN ONLY HAPPEN through indirect action.”
If it’s indirect, they are not working together, not even secretly.
“I could say it looks natural for a girl to learn how to act like a dog from dogs!”
I haven’t found one hoarder that says they started hoarding because they saw someone else do it, or an animal, if we’re talking about environment.
“What makes people healthy is not a big question?”
No.
“I’m really a big business owner and I fuck all my sexy women staff.”
I can’t recognize if someone is a hypocrite or lying to be funny, I’m trying to figure out if that is in the thrill category.
“Can you prove I have a name?”
The chances of you being a feral child are.. no, you wouldn’t be this good using a computer.
“What if I don’t hold a belief in having a name?”
Then I guess you can’t drive, drink, smoke, your life is going to suck.
“Why do I have to be responsibe for paying a debt to a bank if the value of the money is based on “confidence” according to “modern money mechanics”?”
Because they charge interest for the loan you asked for.
“I remember hearing once that a person exclaimed that they didn’t believe in identity and they were arrested for just saying that.”
Cops don’t have time for smart alecs.
“If I don’t pay the “5000$” are you going to drag me to jail?”
The FBI would it looks like.
“What a loving social system, do you think this page would convince me to support the monetary system lol?
No just the theory itself doesn’t make much sense.
“What they’re saying is you don’t have the right to be anonymous, you must comply or call yourself a name.”
That’s called accepting responsibility for your actions.
“According to this I break the law every time I post anonymously on this site.”
I didn’t know courts existed online.
“For example, you won’t give me your credit card password because it’s a untrusting society.”
I’ve never knew courts or officers ask for that type of information.
“All law is just ink on paper, the only way to make it real is through force.”
Laws aren’t randomly made up to be just “ink on paper”.
“If you thought this document was correct you wouldn’t distance yourself from your corporate person and call yourself “Mario Brotha”.”
I’m not against aliases.
“so they invented FACEBOOK – I’m not saying that’s 100% true I’m only suggesting an idea.”
If they are asking for your driver’s license to reactivate an account on facebook that was yours because a Zeitard couldn’t handle a debate, then I can choose to not comply and still be on facebook, by creating another account, however, I don’t think facebook purposely puts your name in CAPS.
“Your identity has to be invented when you’re born (birth certificate) and to use that made up identity against you is fraud.”
I think parents name their children so they don’t say to them “Hey you!” That right there doesn’t show love and make the person feel he or she has any individuality.
“If someone sent me a letter claiming I needed to go to court I can dismiss that as; return to sender mail fraud. Why? Because you can only open the letter with your fingers if you believe you’re “JOHN SMITH”.
Well they got your address, good luck.
“A court can potentially send you a letter claiming you’ve broken any law, you should notice how it’s YOU that must defend your innocence, not the court’s.”
The court didn’t break the law.
“Yet finding people guilty of actions doesn’t help since the courts justify torturing people by sending them to jail.”
I thought you were innocent until proven guilty.
“Makes me wonder why “Homeland Security” would allow the internet”
The internet came first I thought.
“People making apparently critical comments or videos of the zeitgeist movement is a sign that they really find love offensive, why?”
I lol’d.
“Do you understand how open-source is bad for business?”
Not a lot of people like creating their own shit even if instructions or formulas were given to them for free, even then, they would still have to buy material to make whatever they are making from businesses. So no, I don’t see how it’s actually bad for business if you have to go and buy shit to make shit unless you’re telling me people that do open source projects magically have material to make the products and will actually want to invest in so much time. So it can’t be a RBE if you’re still a consumer. However, open source projects are cool.
“Unless everyone’s going to start sharing all their youtube passwords with each other lol.”
I thought you were against fascism.
“If critics are saying “fuck you” and things like that”
I think he’s a supporter actually.
“Notice how he doesn’t say WHY people say we’re not ready for an RBE.”
The WHY is lame, which is why he says “fuck you”.
“It’s not about making cities it’s about changing social values to enable better cities to be built.”
To pretend to have moral authority doesn’t change values.
“Don’t go onto the internet if you don’t want to hear anything zeitgeist has to say if it’s only an internet movemet.”
I go on the internet for other things, but if people ask me questions and still want to debate me about TZM, then I won’t ignore them, ignoring them gives them the impression I’m dumb, a troll and what they say makes sense.
“A bunch of people who apparently sit and do nothing seem to be threatening to some youtube users, isn’t that interesting??”
I haven’t seen any new anti-TZM videos lately.
“By the way do you have any proof that ALL the zeitgeist members are going to become killers yet? Or is assumption all you have?”
Not killers, but lose their insanity more for sure [maybe another killer, maybe another guy sending fake bomb death threats, maybe another person talking about wanting to kill 1,000 people, maybe more vandalism by people who can't spell Zeitgeist, maybe just more angry youtubers going off talking about hitting people with different things, etc.] as more people stop supporting it which I think is happening.
“It’s possible some critics only want their point of view about zeitgeist to be heard meaning they’ll leave some things out in a systematic derogatory form of propaganda to paint a picture of what they think zeitgeist is proposing.”
But everyone comments on the critics’ stuff, however, if you’re a critic and post on their shit, it’s guaranteed your shit is getting deleted.
“The guy who made the video “the last word on utopia” was right, he’s going to be unpopular because of his own pessimistic thinking.”
Popular enough for you to mention.
“I could go on debunking these sorts of videos for you”
By only saying they are pessimistic doesn’t debunk what they say, if this is the “zeitgeist argument” as well, not recognizing utopia, then they shouldn’t be so shitty to the critics, because to me, when they are, they are proving that it is a utopia and actually contradicting themselves.
“Can there be global cooperation without corporate globalisation?”
They’re called chapters, every organization has one.
“I don’t see the need for it if transhumanism”
Are you going to stop people from using technology to improve their bodies?
I can’t comment on conditions of the TZM youtube channel because you’re on it more than me, but you already know my position on that, I disagree with censorship. When transparency is feared it implies you’re doing conspiracy.
“that’s why you won’t see people working for a company pointing to another company”
The case is a corporation proposes itself to be simply better than any other coporation because it’s a competiton based economy. Not a collaborative based economy.
“I still think competition isn’t going anywhere.”
Comptition is people fighting with each other for money, only if people get tried of this social system you might see it go. This means we have to imagine a better social system and bring it into reality.
“People don’t have to take a shitload of courses in one semester, they save money and reduce stress.”
the accumulation of the courses required to say you’re a “this and this” would be expensive, that’s why people can’t become generalists. Stress from debt has to be prevalent somewhere in society if the money supply comes from taking out loans.
“he’s trying not to be”
He identified himself as being a bully EVEN IF he’s not trying to be one. In that video he didn’t try hard enough.
“cliches” point them out.
“That’s fucked up, you want to end religion over a pastor that was giving truth about how we’re not close to each other like we use to be because technology [being around it too much] making people fat and anti-social, that’s not love, stop going reptilian on me lol.”
You’re putting together an argument that I never said! People being in a religion is being more seperate from eachother (MENTALLY) because religion deviates from rational thought! You’re going to burn in hell if you do actions X, Y, or Z. With no explanation as to why doing sinful actions is bad, just hell, that’s it.
“being around it too much”
Stop going on your computer, stop using your fridge, stop using anything that can be called a tool, because tools are technology. Don’t use any item that can be used to solve problems – that’s what technology is.
“making people fat” Technology doesn’t make people fat, it’s the poor social relations that make sick minded people. Blaming technology is a cop-out.
“anti-social” Technology doesn’t make people anti-social, why would a person want to talk to people if they consecutively encounter bullies, why would they want to open up? Like myself, I generally don’t like talking to people at all because of the amount of bullies I’ve encountered throughout my life. The internet I admit gives me the chance to talk to people in a less of a confrontational way.
There’s no way I can prove some of the outrageous claims made in “zeitgeist: the movie” But there’s a segment in part 1: The greatest story ever told, which rings very true to me and is relevant here.
Quote:
“Christianity, along with all other theistic belief systems, is the fraud of the age. It serves to detach the species from the natural world, and likewise, each other. It supports blind submission to authority. It reduces human responsibility to the effect that “God” controls everything, and in turn awful crimes can be justified in the name of the Divine Pursuit. And most importantly, it empowers those who know the truth but use the myth to manipulate and control societies. The religious myth is the most powerful device ever created, and serves as the psychological soil upon which other myths can flourish”
“Religion can never reform mankind because religion is (intellectual) slavery.”
Robert G. Ingersoll 1833-1899
“A myth is an idea that while widely believed, is false. In a deeper sense, in the religious sense, a myth serves as an orienting and mobilising story for a people. There focus is not on the story’s relationship to reality but on its function. A story cannot function unless it is believed to be true in the community or the nation. It is not a matter of debate, if some people have the bad taste to raise the question of the truth of the sacred story, the keepers of the faith do not enter into debate with them. They ignore them or denounce them as blasphemers.” End quote.
So, for example, people who hold sacred their beliefs in the free market will denounce anyone who promotes open-source as “blasphemers”. I’ve heard the rants of free market believers, when confronted with open-source they say “HOW WILL PEOPLE MAKE MONEY” so disconnected from reality they think it’s impossible for humans to get what they need to live without money.
I urge you to look up information on how religious people become zealots when they find out atheist billboards have been put up. They say stuff like; “In the name of JESUS we’re gonna take this atheist billboard down!”
“I don’t take JF or PJM seriously”
Well it depends on the statements for example; “where logic and new information is rejected in favour of traditional outdated beliefs” -zeigeist addendum.
This is the case against strongly held beliefs, which is what the zeitgeist movement is about. Replacing the social values that aren’t based on reality. whether it’s belief in the marketplace, or belief in Christ or God. The difference between the open-source social system (RBE) is we want to TEST what works and what does not, yet we can’t test it with the current social values in place. There needs to be an accepted transition out of them because of how strict our current beliefs are.
To simply say “I think the monetary works” is not science, because it’s what you’re guessing without experiment. It’s not working because I’m legitimately unhappy and I’m part of the system. so what can I do? All I can do is express that unhappiness through art form.
The most irrational critics of course are the most religious, where they claim the people who have put forth inspirational ideas are under the influence of the mythical being Satan. This is typically the strategy religion uses to preserve itself. This of course is nonsense, please go to Youtube and search for “Why Scientists Don’t Fear Hell”.
“I think we’re getting there” We can’t get there without a lot of people pushing for peace in favour of the present push to engage in war.
“New current events happen”
They aren’t really new if they’re the basically the same events again as if it’s a re-run.
“I expect they would practice RBE in their test city too.”
Practice RBE social values? I expect people would try to after establishing the test city. This is to test the feasibility of the RBE.
“Advertising was priority number 1″ then you know it’s not to go BUILD SOMETHING as some critics claim the goal of TZM to be. If critics want to try to go build something with the current social values in place they’re quite welcome to attempt to. Telling TZM to go build something is a deviation from TZM’s goals. Instead of telling TZM’s goal’s are wrong because they’re not building something, prove them wrong. If you prove that they’re wrong and their goals are unachievable (changing the social values to scientific ones before we start building green cities) NO-ONE should be threatened by them, ALL the critics should be able to sit back and watch them fail with a big gut laugh. However, the joke is on the critics if TZM successful and people see the value in changing the social values first before constructing the green cities.
“They will PROBABLY disagree and say make more films.”
The only way to know for sure is to do an investigation, if you’re satisfied with your guess, then that’s not science. Here’s the scientific method as I understand it.
-Make a guess or prediction of the results of experiment.
-Carry out the experiment.
-Record the data from the experiment, and attempt to make a conclusion from the experiment.
-Repeat the process in a new creative way to avoid insanity.
Anymore concerns about TZM?
“Are you going to stop people from using technology to improve their bodies?”
I already told you that I’m for Emergency, if people want to assimilate themselves tho when not needing to, that’s their choice, I just think it’s a big jump from people for TZM watching the first film being scared of the RFID chips to now welcoming it. However, I should be the one asking what are you going to do with the people that reject your transhumanism obsession.
“Not a collaborative based economy.”
I still don’t see competition going anywhere.
“He identified himself as being a bully EVEN IF he’s not trying to be one.”
Someone not trying is a bully.
“Stop going on your computer”
I didn’t say at all, I said too much, this is what I’m talking about:
“Christianity, along with all other theistic belief systems, is the fraud of the age. It serves to detach the species from the natural world”
I lol’d when I read that, since we know people for TZM are really detached from the real world since its a dead movement online.
“It supports blind submission to authority.”
I don’t think everyone that reads the bible reads it blindly without examining the stories shared in it or have questions.
“It reduces human responsibility to the effect that “God” controls everything”
That would make the 10 commandments seem pointless then.
“And most importantly, it empowers those who know the truth but use the myth to manipulate and control societies.”
I don’t think going to church is dictated as a society, or else we wouldn’t have atheists.
“The religious myth is the most powerful device ever created, and serves as the psychological soil upon which other myths can flourish”
Correlation does not imply causation.
“Religion can never reform mankind because religion is (intellectual) slavery.”
I don’t think going to church reduces your IQ.
“A myth is an idea that while widely believed, is false.”
Like a RBE working.
“I urge you to look up information on how religious people become zealots when they find out atheist billboards have been put up. They say stuff like; “In the name of JESUS we’re gonna take this atheist billboard down!”
That’s fucked up. I think there can be religious billboards and atheist billboards.
“They aren’t really new if they’re the basically the same events again as if it’s a re-run.”
I would agree if you’re stuck in a time machine that keeps you stuck on the same day.
“Telling TZM to go build something is a deviation from TZM’s goals.”
No it’s just telling you to put the Scientific method to the test, not just talk about it and pretend to be scientific.
“I already told you that I’m for Emergency, if people want to assimilate themselves tho when not needing to, that’s their choice, I just think it’s a big jump from people for TZM watching the first film being scared of the RFID chips to now welcoming it. However, I should be the one asking what are you going to do with the people that reject your transhumanism obsession.”
We have to ask the question is the application of technology to humanity ALWAYS BAD? This is mentioned in Ben Mcleish’s new lecture. We need to invent technologies that will improve human life, WHAT IS THE POINT of inventing technology that makes life harder or less joyful?
“I still don’t see competition going anywhere.”
competition means war.
“Someone not trying is a bully.”
When you are a bully I’d say it’s difficult to impossible to try to not be one.
“I didn’t say at all, I said too much, like this guy:”
(downloading vid)
“we know people for TZM are really detached from the real world since its a dead movement online.”
So all the people who promote open-source now do not exist?
You have to define “the real world”. I think bankers kissing their money goodnight is delusional (METAPHORICALLY).
“I don’t think everyone that reads the bible reads it blindly without examining the stories shared in it or have questions.”
Religious extremists now don’t exist?? It’s about having blind faith, you must pray or believe otherwise you’re going to hell. This is their view.
“That would make the 10 commandments seem pointless then.”
There are plenty of contradictions in religious doctrine, for example. you only need two people to believe in christ and god will do ANYTHING, this means churches do not need to exist according to the bible.
“I don’t think going to church is dictated as a society, or else we wouldn’t have atheists.”
So pastors don’t control their flocks at all?
“Correlation does not imply causation.”
If you have people believing is magical crap from a young age, what’s to say that they won’t be more gullible later in life?
“I don’t think going to church reduces your IQ.”
WHAT?
http://www.molecularstation.com/molecular-biology-images/data/500/DarkAges.gif
“Like a RBE working.”
Science is PROVING what works and what does not, if you’ve PROVEN the RBE wrong, it’s of no threat.
“That’s fucked up. I think there can be religious billboards and atheist billboards.”
Obviously not, religion can’t handle the existence of atheists because that affects their FAITH too much.
“keeps you stuck on the same day.”
(METAPHORICALLY) that’s what it feels like.
“pretend to be scientific.”
So I need all the university degrees to even talk science? What scientific degrees do critics have?
Anymore concerns about TZM? the following is overflow!
“love offensive” lol’d”
It’s because they’re not critical instead they’re negative. I understand it’s important not to be over positive, yet to engage in pessimism isn’t productive.
“So no, I don’t see how it’s actually bad for business”
Firstly we must figure out why people “don’t like creating their own shit”. Is it normal for humans to not want to create?
“they would still have to buy material”
That’s because we don’t live in a completely open-source world, we have business and open-source activity going on. The reason why making, programming code, instructions, music, video in public domain is bad for business is because it discourages or decreases the movement of money around the economy. To have a monetary-market system you have to have money moving around it.
This current economy apparently demands monetary transfer or consumerism to actually increase. This cultural attitube has been extrapolated into movies such as “Idiocracy” and “GAMER”. Where the consumerism values have become so horrible they’re cringe worthy. “They’re hot, they’re rich, and they’re spoiled, America’s number one show is back!” -Moving Forward
You still have to buy material yes, but open-source exists in the realms of music, programming code, and instructions right now. In fact it’s frowned upon when things are made more openly available by crack webistes and serial websites, these websites engage in breaking copyright protection on software and are seen by corporations as (metaphorically) evil, because they destroy their future profit prospects. Yet what’s interesting is I once heard that Microsoft apparently would rather you pirate windows than use LINUX. I can’t forget websites like the pirate bay either, these websites break copy protection because they make hollywood films available for free download. Do people still buy films? The ones who have been conditioned to think buying films makes you look cool. I gave away all the music CDs I owned, owning music CDs didn’t make me feel cool anymore. I imagine .MIDI files are frowned upon by music corporations. Music files that tell you how a song has been written for free.
Copyright is a major part of the markplace beliefs and internet piracy and open-source highly interferes with that belief. It is assumed that everything a person makes must become their “intellectual property”. Which is why the pirate bay and other similar sites are seen as criminal websites. The most outrageous intellectual property claim I’ve seen is still the idea of a business owning the colour blue. What’s next? Someone’s going to claim they own shapes like the square too? Or basic 3D polygons?
There’s a tonne of information out there out on the internet. Which before the internet, you would have to buy that information. The venus project or zeitgeist not only suggests open-source of all information, but of all resources too. Of course the public would have to learn how to be wise and scientific concerning the use of the resources to use them effectively for projects that would help humanity.
Information is free is anonymous’s motto and maybe one day it will be Resources are free.
“I think he’s a supporter actually.”
He can’t be a supporter of a civilised society because rudeness is not civilised.
“The WHY is lame”
Shows people’s inability to listen.
“To pretend to have moral authority doesn’t change values.”
Did I mention before that I wish to see scientifically defined morals? Reminds me of the quote in “zeitgeist: the movie” “It must be difficult for those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority”
How do we find out “scientifically defined morals”? Well have have to know what’s good and what’s bad for the body, and that’s complex. What foods are good for the body? how should people treat each other? Is ownership or sharing better for a society’s psychology?
“ignoring them gives them the impression I’m dumb, a troll and what they say makes sense.”
If you know zeitgeist is wrong, then you shouldn’t care what impression you give to members of zeitgeist.
“Scientists aren’t here to get along with people, they tell people what their findings are” -Moving Forward
People who are wrong and propagate lies are typically desperate. Lies crumble, while the truth stands on its own without prayer. Have you ever seen the Scientology orientation video leak for example? It’s an extremely desperate video because a lot of the video relies on testimony, including celebrity testimony.
You have to admit, at least TZM orientation video doesn’t rely on celebrity testimony like the Scientology orientation video.
“I haven’t seen any new anti-TZM videos lately.”
(Just my opinion) pessimism takes more energy to actualise than films that encourage positivity.
Positivity (noun)
3. The quality of being encouraging or promising of a successful outcome
Of course it’s we that must create or ensure a successful outcome through science, not simply promise one to ourselves.
“Not killers, but lose their insanity more for sure”
Are these signs of a unhealthy society? Or do you blame TZM completely? Of course you have to ask the question why do people engage is terrorism if you wish to stop terrorism, or we could continue what we currently do, believe terrorists are completely evil (metaphorically) and just put them in prison.
“as more people stop supporting it which I think is happening.”
If this current social system crumbles and we need alternative social system options, remember those crazy zeitgeisters. As long as people support open-source knowledge, then these people directly or indirectly support the beginings of the venus project philosophy. I imagine corporations might think the existence of LINUX is an abomination. I’ve heard the idea that corporations use LINUX to make new operating systems consequently making an open-source project into a commercial one.
“But everyone comments on the critics’ stuff, however, if you’re a critic and post on their shit, it’s guaranteed your shit is getting deleted.”
That’s censorship, in a way there’s no such thing as “their shit” because a website can be accessed by anyone on the internet! Making it public knowledge. (whoever owns this site could choose to censor absolutely everything I say, or everything zeitgeist members have to say creating a completely one sided view). Also a website can be backed up and re-posted onto the internet in the event it’s taken down. There’s a blog website on subliminal messages for example that says at the beginning of the site a request for you to backup their website.
There’s a video called “why scientists don’t fear hell” and the creator of the video claimed that it was taken down by religious flaggers who didn’t like the argument put forth and it was labelled as “hate speech”.
Of course it’s still on youtube now, but I’m trying to give you an example of where logic and reason can be censored in favour of people maintaining erroneous beliefs about the world.
“By only saying they are pessimistic doesn’t debunk what they say”
How? Pessimism isn’t good for people. You could take any form of positive attitude about life and try to change it into a negative form of thinking. Pessimistic thinking can warp the truth. For example; people who say life should be filled with joy don’t know that life is about being miserable. Of course the cosmos doesn’t give a shit what we think so it’s up to us to judge if that form of thinking is healthy.
Pessimistic (adjective)
1. “Expecting the worst in this worst of all possible worlds” – Would you say that that’s a healthy way to look at the world? should I take people who present completely pessimistic thinking seriously?
Zeitgeist: Moving Forward in some ways is pessimistic near the end of the film. It talks about oil production coming to a close and if we continue the current path of assuming infinite growth/consumerism then we’re in for trouble.
I want to encourage people to make positive choices. I want people to prove to themselves that love is more valuable than money if that is a built in attribute of this reality. All facts we can find out already exist so they can be discovered by us.
“Popular enough for you to mention.”
It’s on topic, when he says “unpopular” to me he says; My thinking is going to be disliked because I’m being pessimistic.
“they shouldn’t be so shitty to the critics”
I agree. But it’s DIFFICULT not to be “shitty” with critics if they’re being pessimistic, people might choose to ignore pessimistic critics because they create an atmosphere of depression. Who wants to be depressed?
“They’re called chapters, every organization has one.”
sub-groups that make up a whole group. “A one world system” as KeithTruth calls zeitgeist basically propagates that zeitgeist is encouraging something harmful, and members intentionally or have been fooled to carry out the orders of Peter Fresco.
This is an example of a nonsense conspiracy idea of what TZM is. Science is concerned with finding out what our reality is, looking at our reality as the authority rather than a person such as Peter Fresco.
Since we’re so used to the idea of people looking at people as authority figures instead of looking at scientific facts as the authority it’s not difficult to understand how someone could make the misinterpretation that zeitgeist has a leader.
Responding to
“Adam_Smiths_Invisible_Hand..flv”
“the market is a genuinly cooperative society”
That’s ridiculous, if this was true how come I don’t feel happy? the cop-out statement would be that there’s something wrong with me, but the free market system is fine.
There’s a scarce amount of money in the supply and the belief is you need to go out into the market and earn money by selling your labour. how is this not a form of competition? There’s also claims that some corporations are better than other corporations in the world of advertising. A base example is given in zeitgeist: addendum; “sticks better than any other band-aid”.
People slagging each other isn’t cooperative unless your definition of “cooperative” is different from its dictionary meaning.
“Each person specialises in the task for which he is best fitted”
lol, sounds like he’s describing an RBE not the marketplace. This statement is false and here’s why. Each person cannot afford an education into the task that they want to do because of the scarce supply of money in the economy.
“and each serves his fellow men”
Is this person taking into account the fact that technology serves men (and women) too?
“In an exchange”
the money you’re being paid is not as valuable as love, therefore you’re being lied to.
“each person by producing for exchange cooperates with his fellow men voluntary”
Does this person have a dark sense of humour? Money isn’t cooperation, it’s competition. (The following is an analogy), let’s say we’re the only two people in the economy, and there’s only a $10 note in the economy. This $10 can afford a decent meal, yet only 1 of us can buy the meal and sharing isn’t assumed in the market because YOU BUY WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Therefore we are going to compete for that money even if some guy says it’s “cooperation”.
It’s not voluntary, I didn’t volunteer to be a part of the monetary system, I was born into it without my consent. I can’t get out of the monetary system because it’s really a global marketplace. Unless I go live on one of Jupiter’s moons
You don’t volunteer to work, you have to work for money, then you use the money to get what you need to live, that’s a competition. There’s elements of competitions everywhere in the marketplace as a byproduct of its belief system, ever heard of Casinos? or gambling?
The quote from Robert De Niro is relevant here.
“It’s all been arranged just for us to get your money” -Casino
There’s also the claim that there’s an infinite amount of money in the economy too, which is rubbish because it’s impossible.
“and without coercion”
That’s a cruel joke. I’ve been intimidated by employment consultants telling me to get a job.
“Leaves each person free to benefit himself in the market”
Do I need to reference the “MONEY IS WAR” poster I made again?? Benefit yourself in the market how? By taking advantage of the ignorant. “I’LL NEVER BE BROKE ANOTHER DAY IN MY LIFE” -Reverend Peter Popoff “Let me send you the free miracle spring water” -Reverend Peter Popoff. Has this person ever heard of peter popoff’s free miracle spring water?
“And as a consequence to benefit others in the market as well”
How the heck does producing false values benefit me? Does this person ignore the fact that money can’t love?
“Regardless of the motives”
Oh please!!! LOOK UP WHAT REVEREND PETER POPOFF’S MOTIVE IS!
“Of those involved in exchange”
equal exchange is the cruel joke, why? Because the exchange does not bring happiness. Money can’t love, does this person kiss his money goodnight?
Barter on its own still doesn’t bring happiness because material items do not bring happiness. Creative activity and Love bring happiness, not money or items.
“Even though he may be indifferent to”
BAM! he admits it himself. INDIFFERENCE IS NOT LOVE.
“the other participants are benefitted by his actions”
Is he going to ignore the prospect of “participants” being damaged by the actions of sellers? Such as people who sell guns, cigarettes, and other damaging or deluding products or services.
Mind reader
1. Someone with the power of communicating thoughts directly
2. A magician who seems to discern the thoughts of another person (usually by clever signals from an accomplice)
Now some people believe in the services of mind readers, yet in fact the service is a complete scam. There’s a difference between someone being able to read body language and someone who says they’re a mind reader or astrologer. Plus the market enables people to invent services that people think they need. He hasn’t heard of scientology.
There’s these places I often walk past where there’s caucasian women getting their nails done by immigrants. What a shameful social system. It’s like this old disney cartoon I once saw where there was a fantasy animal made to look like a black woman shining the hooves of a white fantasy animal.
“Pursuing his own benefit also benefits others.”
I recommend the movie “LORD OF WAR” that movie truly highlights the phrase “What goes around comes around”.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0399295/
It’s about a gun salesman and basically what happens is because he engages in such a negative business, (selling guns so people can use those guns to kill people) he ends up with his brother being killed, and his family disowning him.
Of course the movie is a hypothetical, but it’s based on the logic of the phrase “What goes around comes around”.
The market enables people to delude people while they think they’re being benefitted. Money does not love, and goods and services only make people happy up to a certain point. After that point, emptiness follows.
“It almost seemed was directing the proceedings!”
LOL! You can “almost seem” as much as you like, it still won’t make something true. The invisible hand is invisible because it doesn’t exist, that’s not science. I suggest Adam Smith was religious so he threw in the line where he thought that’s what has been guding the marketplace. The reality is that haphazardness has been guiding the marketplace. There’s no plan at all. Why is there no plan? It’s because God doesn’t make plans for human beings, God is simply physics, math, and chemistry. The cold and strict laws that hold this reality together. Numbers do not love. If you don’t make a plan you plan to fail.
Destiny is a human invention, we must make the plan, we can’t leave it up to God anymore.
Let me quote the movie “CUBE” (or go watch the movie CUBE).
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0123755/
Quote
“Then help me please I need to know!” “This maybe hard for you to understand, but there is no conspiracy. Nobody is in charge, it’s a headless blunder operating under the delusion of a master plan. Can you grasp that!? Big Brother is not watching you.” “what kind of fuckin’ explanation is that?” “It’s the best you’re going to get, I looked and the only conclusion I could come to is that there is nobody up there.” “SOMEBODY HAD TO SAY YES TO THIS THING!”
“If this place ever had a purpose then they got mis-communicated. This is an accident, a forgotten perpetual public works project. Do you think anybody wants to ask questions? All they want is a clear conscience and a fat paycheck. I leaned on my shovel for months on this one! This was a great job!” “Why put people in it?” “Because it’s here, you have to use it or admit it’s pointless” “But it is pointless!” “Quentin that’s my point.” “What have we come to, it’s so much worse than I thought.”
“Not really, just more pathetic” “You make my sick Worth!” “I make me sick too!” “We’re both part of the system, I draw a box, you walk a beat. It’s like you said Quentin, is keep your head down, keep it simple, just look at what’s in front of you. I mean nobody wants to see the big picture. Life’s too complicated. I mean let’s face it, the reason we’re here is that it’s out of control.”
“This is how we ruined the world?” “Well duhh! have you been on glue all your lives? I felt guilty for ruining the world since I was like seven! God! If you need someone to blame throw a rock!” End quote.
What’s interesting about religion, is religion attempts to blur the line between the metaphorical and the literal, it’s because when religion was made we had to make up band-aid explanations for how the world works to comfort ourselves. With our current understandings these beliefs are showing cracks.
I highly doubt Adam Smith was being scientific when he said “the market is being guided by a hand”. That’s a religious assumption, it even says on money IN GOD WE TRUST. Who wrote “IN GOD WE TRUST” on money if the current system as you claim is scientific? Money itself is religious because you need to have faith or confidence in money for it to be valuable otherwise it’s bits of paper not a “medium of exchange”. Yet love is more valuable than money by default, proving the faith is flawed. Love is outside the boundaries of trade.
“The fact that the market provides for the welfare of each individual participating in it is a conclusion based on scientific analysis.”
This is dark humour! My needs are not met, and starving people, what? they simply don’t exist anymore? Did they all starve to death? He says “each individual”! How can the needs of all people be met if the theory is based on having a scarce amount of money in supply? “in inflation everything gets more valuable except money” -dictionary
Unless he’s denying the rich even exist, to have the rich, you must have the poor. This is the product of unfair resource distribution. If you have millionaires owning 100 room mansions while you have poor people living in trailer parks, what does that say about the workings of the social system or even the antisocial system?
It tells us that it works well for the rich but it doesn’t work well for the poor and only the uncompassionate would justify the negative effects of the marketplace. The marketplace is not science, the marketplace is not loving. It’s a complete fantasy to say that the marketplace is a loving social system. It’s indifferent and callous, the worst of human qualities
When it comes to religious people it’s very hard to tell when they’re being metaphorical Vs. literal. This is because magical impossible stories are taken as literal history. Was Adam Smith being metaphorical or literal when he said the market was guided by a hand? If metaphorical what the truth was he trying to communicate? The only way to know is to weigh what’s the most probable conclusion to be correct. Since rich and poor exist yet he claims “provides for the welfare of each individual”, I would say Adam Smith thought the market would magically provide for people. Provides for people how? We have homeless and the rich apparently have psychological problems, it’s disturbing. I would enjoy seeing seeing him debunk this response I’m doing to his youtube video in a youtube video.
“Used in commenting on this process and its results”
I remember John McMurty commented on what he’s saying here! (paraphrased) “See how wise God is? God kills the poor! That’s how he maintains equilibrium in the market.”
He’s desperately trying to rationalise an insane doctrine. The only way to rationalise this situation is to ignore the massive class division between the rich and the poor. In Moving Forward it shows clear images of the rich’s lifestyle and the poor’s lifestyle. Winners Vs. Losers, what rubbish.
I recommend you search for the lyrics of a song called “Every Home a Prison” by “Coldcut”, on their album “Let Us Play”. I’ll try to search youtube for it and link it below.
youtubevid
“Ending welfare as we know it, means third world crime as we know it, so why is it all these young people today misbehave?” -Coldcut – Every Home a Prison
Anymore concerns about TZM?
“This is mentioned in Ben Mcleish’s new lecture.”
I don’t know who he is.
“competition means war.”
I lol’d.
“So all the people who promote open-source now do not exist?”
I thought you dropped TZM for the people who are for open-source.
“I think bankers kissing their money goodnight is delusional (METAPHORICALLY).”
Yeah lets assume every bank employee makes more money than everyone else.
“Religious extremists now don’t exist??”
I don’t think every religious person is an extremist.
“So pastors don’t control their flocks at all?”
No.
“WHAT?”
Yeah.
“Science is PROVING what works and what does not”
Presenting toy models isn’t Science.
“(METAPHORICALLY)”
The parentheses and that word helps.
“Is it normal for humans to not want to create?”
People rely on specialists to create their goods for them, but yes, I think anyone can be creative, but most of the time, it isn’t convenient.
“The reason why making, programming code, instructions, music, video in public domain is bad for business is because it discourages or decreases the movement of money around the economy.”
But when you find open source programs, people ask for donations, so no, it’s not a RBE.
“This cultural attitube has been extrapolated into movies such as “Idiocracy” and “GAMER”.
The culture attitude that you want shows people will be fat and lazy and this is extrapolated into a movie called “Wall-E”.
“They’re hot, they’re rich, and they’re spoiled, America’s number one show is back!” -Moving Forward
In a RBE, everyone will be ugly, that sucks, but seriously, RBE promotes extreme spoiled behavior.
“You still have to buy material yes, but open-source exists in the realms of music, programming code, and instructions right now.”
I buy music, buy products that come with instructions with them and.. I’m not a programmer, I don’t know anything about that. But buying products support the companies and artists and to not do that would be stealing, if RBE is stealing, then I’m not sure how this is suppose to change my values and turn me into a better person.
“Do people still buy films?”
Sure.
“The most outrageous intellectual property claim I’ve seen is still the idea of a business owning the colour blue.”
LOL
“There’s a tonne of information out there out on the internet. Which before the internet, you would have to buy that information.”
You still do have to pay for the internet at home, I doubt people get free internet service at home, even when you’re at the Library, the library is paying for the internet there for it to be used by anyone who comes there to use it.
“Did I mention before that I wish to see scientifically defined morals?”
Yeah and I’m not impressed from what you’re saying.
“If you know zeitgeist is wrong, then you shouldn’t care what impression you give to members of zeitgeist.”
I know I mentioned that I don’t blog or make videos anymore. But still, people for TZM doesn’t own the internet and can’t tell me what to do, also, it goes against the whole common heritage thing. You can’t go around and judge people and say they aren’t civilised because of their rudeness and when you’re more rude and thru that rudeness being a bully, which you also seem to be against, bullies.
“Lies crumble, while the truth stands on its own without prayer.”
Those who pray are going to hell obviously, you know, bearing false witness.
“Have you ever seen the Scientology orientation video leak for example? It’s an extremely desperate video because a lot of the video relies on testimony, including celebrity testimony.”
Oh like the advocate cult campaign, also, I think I can still find those here with a shitload of testimonies:
http://www.youtube.com/user/churchofscientology
No I haven’t caught the leak, but their plans still moved forward. The people look nice and all in those videos, but, it’s still a cult, luckily, TZM is a dead online benign cult.
“You have to admit, at least TZM orientation video doesn’t rely on celebrity testimony”
The main Zeitgeist Media Festival proved the opposite actually and that shit was desperate on Peter Joseph Merola’s part, and, it flopped.
“(Just my opinion) pessimism takes more energy to actualise than films that encourage positivity.”
If pessimism existed, by your opinion, I would see more anti-TZM videos, but I don’t.
“Are these signs of a unhealthy society?”
There signs of being in a cult, which I said before, is unhealthy.
“If this current social system crumbles and we need alternative social system options, remember those crazy zeitgeisters.”
No thanx.
“That’s censorship, in a way there’s no such thing as “their shit” because a website can be accessed by anyone on the internet!”
No one is passing out passwords to have access to people’s channels, see, TZM is against property, but even they aren’t crazy enough to do shit like that, or give people the key to their house, car, etc. Oops, I forgot about Voice of Racism.
“(whoever owns this site could choose to censor absolutely everything I say, or everything zeitgeist members have to say creating a completely one sided view).”
So the critics are more moral than the people for TZM.
“should I take people who present completely pessimistic thinking seriously?
When it comes to utopias, yes, if you don’t believe in imaginary people, then the same can be applied to the final frontier, which, btw, a RBE is, seriously, nothing can beat a RBE, I can’t think of anything next after a moneyless society that provides everything for you by magical robots, I don’t think anyone can, people are pessimistic because they want to avoid being gullible and Zeitards are dishonest when they ask for better solutions if it doesn’t involve reform of the monetary system.
“It talks about oil production coming to a close and if we continue the current path of assuming infinite growth/consumerism then we’re in for trouble.”
Fearmongering about oil being scarce isn’t new.
“people might choose to ignore pessimistic critics because they create an atmosphere of depression. Who wants to be depressed?”
Ignoring pessimists keep people optimistic I thought.
“A one world system” as KeithTruth calls zeitgeist basically propagates that zeitgeist is encouraging something harmful, and members intentionally or have been fooled to carry out the orders of Peter Fresco.”
The parallel government shit helps his argument, see, Peter Joseph Merola gives the impression that his idea could be used for monetary reform, but I think it’s obvious that he wants to be sneaky and use that idea for global RBE and can be considered harmful for those tricked into it if they don’t want it which I assume the majority of OWS don’t by either recognizing it as bullshit or never heard of it.
“Since we’re so used to the idea of people looking at people as authority figures instead of looking at scientific facts”
That’s enforced, if someone goes out and try to attempt a RBE, Jacque Fresco will be telling someone else they know nothing and when he dies, it’ll be Roxanne, when she dies, it’ll be someone else from the Venus Project, unless you’re going to tell me now where RBE came from has no Science at all.
“That’s ridiculous, if this was true how come I don’t feel happy?”
Because you still live your parents.
“lol, sounds like he’s describing an RBE not the marketplace.”
He didn’t say generalise.
“Is this person taking into account the fact that technology serves men (and women) too?
That people operate with, yes, women too, I agree.
“Money isn’t cooperation, it’s competition.”
I think there can be both.
“It’s not voluntary, I didn’t volunteer to be a part of the monetary system”
Actually it is, people can choose to be bums and expect everything to be handed to them.
“The quote from Robert De Niro is relevant here.”
That’s if you think seriously there are no winners and everyone loses their money.
“I’ve been intimidated by employment consultants telling me to get a job.”
I didn’t know you could be coerced into getting a job.
“Barter on its own still doesn’t bring happiness because material items do not bring happiness.”
It comes close, you communicate with your neighbors more which create or better relationships.
“Creative activity and Love bring happiness”
Being able to help someone brings that too.
“There’s these places I often walk past where there’s caucasian women getting their nails done by immigrants. What a shameful social system. It’s like this old disney cartoon I once saw where there was a fantasy animal made to look like a black woman shining the hooves of a white fantasy animal.”
But if you’re assuming people doing a white woman’s nails are immigrants, then I think that makes you a racist.
“LOL! You can “almost seem” as much as you like, it still won’t make something true.”
I want you to explain to me how spontaneous order works then.
“If you don’t make a plan you plan to fail.”
TZM hates religion, but when it comes to planning the economy, they want to play God ? Hypocrisy:
“go watch the movie”
I don’t want to buy a movie in order to debate you, I buy movies to enjoy.
“That’s a religious assumption, it even says on money IN GOD WE TRUST.”
Well people say “one nation under GOD” and “GOD bless America” too.
“starving people, what? they simply don’t exist anymore? Did they all starve to death? He says “each individual”!
I blame gambling!
“It’s a complete fantasy to say that the marketplace is a loving social system.”
I didn’t know things was suppose to love people.
“Do you understand how the opinion of politics can be affected by bribery?”
There’s transparency for that:
http://www.opensecrets.org
Do you understand how the opinion of politics can be affected by bribery? (see image)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/201/twted.jpg/
“I don’t know who he is.”
“competition means war.”
So you think us competing for a scarce amount of money in an economy is not competition? wtf. If you many money abundant inflation happens. I’m wondering if you know how money works.
“Yeah lets assume every bank employee makes more money than everyone else.”
If every dollar is a loan that must be paid back with interest, that means collectively we owe the bank the whole money supply.
“So pastors don’t control their flocks at all?” no.
So you’re saying people can’t make influencing suggestions to gulliable people? That’s laughable. I imagine you’re suggested to by other pessimists.
“WHAT?” Yeah.
What do you mean “yeah”? are you saying the dark ages did not happen? Religion makes people stupid.
“Presenting toy models isn’t Science.”
Actually it is, presenting good ideas IS science. Do you know what science is? To be scientific you suggest good ideas. This is why members are annoyied with critics and say “WHERE’S YOUR GOOD IDEAS” because only criticising ideas without offering better ideas yourself isn’t attractive.
“The parentheses and that word helps.”
Thanks!
“People rely on specialists to create their goods for them, but yes, I think anyone can be creative, but most of the time, it isn’t convenient.”
Maybe people should not just rely on specialists to create everything for them. Some of the time people like being creative, what ever makes creativity inconvenient isn’t good.
“But when you find open source programs, people ask for donations, so no, it’s not a RBE.”
AS I SAID BEFORE; That’s because we do not live in a completely open-source world, we live in a world with both business and open-source going on. We’re FORCED to do business it is not by consent.
“The culture attitube that you want shows people will be fat and lazy and this is extrapolated into a movie called “Wall-E”.”
You’re telling me what I want? I want people to ask questions, if technology makes people fat and lazy then we need to destroy all computers.
“RBE promotes extreme spoiled behavior.”
Getting your basic human needs met is “spoiled behaviour”?
“Do people still buy films?” Sure.
I encourage people not to.
“I buy music, buy products that come with instructions with them and.. I’m not a programmer, I don’t know anything about that. But buying products support the companies and artists and to not do that would be stealing, if RBE is stealing, then I’m not sure how this is suppose to change my values and turn me into a better person.”
It’s important to support PEOPLE not COMPANIES because COMPANIES are not PEOPLE. When you support a compnay it’s a pyramid scheme, the largest elements go to the ones at the top of the company (CEO; cheif executive officer), just like the people who are at the top of the society (bankers).
LINUX is an example of people trying to discourage people from using Microsoft products.
“You still do have to pay for the internet at home, I doubt people get free internet service at home, even when you’re at the Library, the library is paying for the internet there for it to be used by anyone who comes there to use it.”
The information is Fee-er. Information isn’t completely free yet no, yet this is the IDEA that anonymous suggests. Information is free.
“Yeah and I’m not impressed from what you’re saying.”
That’s because it’s not for me to say, scientifically defined morals have to be found out. I can only suggest what they might be. The truth is not told it’s realised.
“I know I mentioned that I don’t blog or make videos anymore. But still, people for TZM doesn’t own the internet and can’t tell me what to do, also, it goes against the whole common heritage thing. You can’t go around and judge people and say they aren’t civilised because of their rudeness and when you’re more rude and thru that rudeness being a bully, which you also seem to be against, bullies.”
Our reality will tell us what to do through science. I can’t judge if someone is being rude to me? So saying “fuck you” to people over the internet isn’t rude?
I want to question beliefs. I think that’s not like being a full on bully. I’m going to be offensive to the religious for example because they are sensitive and fragile because of their beliefs about the world.
“Those who pray are going to hell obviously, you know, bearing false witness.”
Hah!
“TZM is a dead online benign cult.”
you better hope so.
“The main Zeitgeist Media Festival”
The Zeitgeist Media Festival is not the TZM orientation video.
“If pessimism existed, by your opinion, I would see more anti-TZM videos, but I don’t.”
so pessimism can only exist in anti-TZM videos?
“There signs of being in a cult, which I said before, is unhealthy.”
Completely black and white again, TZM must be the source of all social problems.
“No thanx.”
Have fun trying to fix something that isn’t fixable.
“No one is passing out passwords to have access to people’s channels, see, TZM is against property, but even they aren’t crazy enough to do shit like that, or give people the key to their house, car, etc. Oops, I forgot about Voice of Racism.”
That’s because we don’t live in a trusting society. He don’t trust each other because we’re strangers, that’s the default.
“So the critics are more moral than the people for TZM.”
It depends on what the critics are saying on TZM sites, if it’s heaps negative they might not want to put up with that. Yet the internet allows conversations to happen here without any censorship. Happy about that?
“When it comes to utopias, yes, if you don’t believe in imaginary people, then the same can be applied to the final frontier, which, btw, a RBE is, seriously, nothing can beat a RBE, I can’t think of anything next after a moneyless society that provides everything for you by magical robots, I don’t think anyone can, people are pessimistic because they want to avoid being gullible and Zeitards are dishonest when they ask for better solutions if it doesn’t involve reform of the monetary system.”
I’m not going to take pessimistic thinking seriously because it’s irrational, do you enjoy being depressed.
“magical robots” Is your computer “Magical” your computer had to be IMAGINED first before it was created, same with the software.
“avoid being gullible” That’s fair, but there comes a point where we need to get creative and start imagining something better if the situation is making people depressed. You’re ignoring the fact that people in TZM are depressed because they don’t like the current world hence they want to imagine somehing better than the current social situation.
“better solutions if it doesn’t involve reform of the monetary system.”
Again, are you going to force people to have “confidence” in money?
“Fearmongering about oil being scarce isn’t new.”
What if the reality provides the fear rather than the people?
“Ignoring pessimists keep people optimistic I thought.”
Exactly. That’s why some members of TZM are going to ignore critics and label them “trolls”.
“The parallel government shit helps his argument, see, Peter Joseph Merola gives the impression that his idea could be used for monetary reform, but I think it’s obvious that he wants to be sneaky and use that idea for global RBE and can be considered harmful for those tricked into it if they don’t want it which I assume the majority of OWS don’t by either recognising it as bullshit or never heard of it.”
monetary reform AND a transfer to an RBE was the argument
Seriously, people are going to HATE the idea of a social system designed to meet the needs of human beings through resource management?
That’s like saying people want to die.
“That’s enforced, if someone goes out and try to attempt a RBE, Jacque Fresco will be telling someone else they know nothing and when he dies, it’ll be Roxanne, when she dies, it’ll be someone else from the Venus Project, unless you’re going to tell me now where RBE came from has no Science at all.”
Telling someone they know nothing does not mean they know nothing, it’s SLANDER. Everyone dies.
Science is not OWNED by the venus project.
“Because you still live your parents.”
insolent comment.
“That people operate with, yes, women too, I agree.”
he didn’t say technology at all.
“I think there can be both.”
I can shake your hand like a friend while we shoot eachother with a guns in the other.
“people can choose to be bums and expect everything to be handed to them.”
THERE IS A SCARCE SUPPLY OF MONEY IN THE ECONOMY, BUMS ARE GOING TO EXIST.
“everyone loses their money.”
The bank apparently get it all.
“I didn’t know you could be coerced into getting a job.”
Intimidating is attempting to insight fear, of course people fear being forced to do things which is why casual intimidating is used.
“It comes close, you communicate with your neighbors more which create or better relationships.”
If items brought happiness I’d kiss my computer. That’s difficult considering the current illusion we’re under.
Running out of time, here’s the overflow see you next time, hopefully you still enjoy our conversations.
“I didn’t say at all, I said too much, like this guy:”
You have to define “TOO MUCH”. Technology is used commonly throughout daily life by all people.
I could say turning on your lights for hours at night is using technology too much. When technology is used sensibly it improves life. Yet you can’t blame technology for POOR SOCIAL RELATIONS. If technology was to blame, then invention would be a crime.
The video you linked me is yet another example of poor social relations. Technology in some ways enables us to see what poor social relations has to offer. “Why do people take drugs?” is the response not “that dude watches way too much porn”.
Just noticed this too;
social system
1. The people in a society considered as a system organised by a characteristic pattern of relationships.
The term “social system” doesn’t even relate to how we’re currently managing society.
You should note that the concept of creating open-source projects to insult the operation of business isn’t new considering the existence of LINUX. A resource-based economy is simply a bigger insult to business because it’s the idea of the whole social system being open source, a world without business completely. (see image).
“bankers, advertising gone forever because it’s no longer relevant” -zeitgeist addendum
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/54334734.jpg/
It doesn’t matter if you think competiton is going nowhere. If the social environment changes in such a way that it becomes possible to make competiton irrelevant I am going to take that opportunity. Of course, if you’re so sure competiton is going nowhere then you don’t have to feel threatened at all by what propaganda I spew out. I know people feel threatened by my propaganda because it makes people angry. That’s a CLEAR indication that they fear what I have to say because it distrubs their belief system. This is why religious people get angry when atheists laugh at them. This is how I know I’m on the right track. If people didn’t listen at all, and didn’t show any anger from what I say at all, then I would know that I was doing something wrong.
Also, I want you to see where I got the idea of religious people getting really offended by atheist billboards. There can’t be peace between the religious and atheists because religious people are irrational!
Christians_Cant_Read_Atheist_Billboards..flv
The audio from that video was low. I really don’t know him or anyone else who rotates on Peter Joseph Merola’s blogtalkradio show.
“wtf.”
That’s what I say to myself when I read your illogical statements and illogical questions.
“If every dollar is a loan that must be paid back with interest, that means collectively we owe the bank the whole money supply.”
So then I guess banks can’t go bankrupt.
“So you’re saying people can’t make influencing suggestions to gulliable people? That’s laughable.”
I don’t think everyone in church is mind controlled by the pastor to stay there.
“What do you mean “yeah”? are you saying the dark ages did not happen? Religion makes people stupid.”
Then we would still be in the dark ages then, or, according to your logic, much worse if we really live in intellectual slavery as you say.
“Actually it is”
Actually it isn’t.
“Maybe people should not just rely on specialists to create everything for them. Some of the time people like being creative, what ever makes creativity inconvenient isn’t good.”
If people wanted to be truly self-sufficient.
“We’re FORCED to do business it is not by consent.”
I don’t think people are forced to be ebeggars.
“Getting your basic human needs met is “spoiled behaviour”?
No wanting to have a toilet wipe your ass for you is.
“I encourage people not to.”
I don’t encourage people to steal.
“It’s important to support PEOPLE not COMPANIES because COMPANIES are not PEOPLE.”
People work for companies, so I do both.
“I can’t judge if someone is being rude to me? So saying “fuck you” to people over the internet isn’t rude?”
He said it with a sense of humor.
“I’m going to be offensive to the religious for example because they are sensitive and fragile because of their beliefs about the world.”
I would engage with them thru debate, or conversation, but I wouldn’t make a personal goal to be “offensive”.
“The Zeitgeist Media Festival is not the TZM orientation video.”
Well if we’re talking about videos, I guess Brandy Hume aka TVPChallenge counts, I know she use to be on tv shows and some people for TZM think she is trying to be more famous by using TZM, I remember listening to Peter Joseph Merola when he said he was going to use her to make a welcoming video for the site, it never happened, well something like that happened, they made a cheesy ass video promoting the blogsite with a blog orientation video and then it got unlisted, but you can still watch it:
“Completely black and white again”
Cults, TZM is not the only cult out there.
“That’s because we don’t live in a trusting society.”
Even in a RBE, people will still have their houses and accounts, contradicting with the whole common heritage thing, still.
“It depends on what the critics are saying on TZM sites”
You’re a fool if you a expect a critic to post saying they agree with a RBE or RBEM, then they wouldn’t be a critic.
“Do you enjoy being depressed.”
I don’t think critical thinkers are usually depressed people. They are too busy mentally to be depressed.
“You’re ignoring the fact that people in TZM are depressed”
So they’re not critical thinkers.
“Again, are you going to force people to have “confidence” in money?”
You should dump your money in the middle of the street like Z3 if you have no confidence in your money.
“What if the reality provides the fear rather than the people?”
People always present data in some way and it can’t just be realized, you’re using that psychic logic on me again.
“That’s why some members of TZM are going to ignore critics and label them “trolls”.
To call someone a troll because they are pessimistic and don’t believe in utopias is unfair.
“monetary reform AND a transfer to an RBE was the argument”
No it says “reform or revolution” in that video. To him of course, revolution means RBE and he wants to be sneaky and use it for the RBEM idea only.
“Seriously, people are going to HATE the idea of a social system designed to meet the needs of human beings through resource management?”
You’re tricking people by loading the language still, that reminds me, I was reading Jim Jesus’ blog and he said something funny and that the words “Resource-Based Economy” is as redundant as saying “anal butt sex”. I lol’d yesterday about that. If you trick people into thinking what you’re presenting is much better according to what they have now, that will create hate for what’s proposed. Also, awhile back, after saying this, I suggested that TZM should be called RBE movement, well, to avoid looking like a cult, you should come up something else.
“Technology is used commonly throughout daily life by all people.”
I agree, but those who are obese and anti-social I’m sure use electronics more than daily. I mean electronics when I said technology and I’m sure that’s what the pastor meant as well, or else he would be living in the woods.
“I could say turning on your lights for hours at night is using technology too much.”
It doesn’t make you fat and anti-social, it could show your laziness for not turning off the lights when you’re leaving the light on when not needed, also, lights can keep people up next to you when they are trying to sleep at night, it’s just rude too.
“Why do people take drugs?”
Someone that spends too much time on electronics is someone I would consider a junkie.
“Of course, if you’re so sure competiton is going nowhere then you don’t have to feel threatened at all by what propaganda I spew out.”
I can tell you all my concerns, but I will still have concerns, if I didn’t have concerns, I would be an advocate, but I don’t advocate cults.
The following is overflow! If I miss anything, you have to tell me.
“It’s not, but you’re made to feel like a social outcast.”
You can only feel that way if you live with your parents and don’t have a job.
“For everyone?”
I doubt every single person is in debt.
“That would be me giving love, I would still be getting money for the service. Love to me is something that needs to be given and recieved to such a degree that a connection is esbablished. Like an internet connection, the communication is happening to quickly to establish a connection.”
That’s the type of job you want then.
“There would be speicalists and generalists, if all information is open-source meaning”
Everything will be like Wikipedia, no thanx.
“Somehow I don’t think he’s got the milatary power of some of the dictators out there.”
This guy who supports a RBE think that Peter Joseph Merola will be a dictator:
“Could the beavhour come about through advertising? “Get in quick” “last chance sale!” “don’t MISS OUT!”
If everything they hoarded in their house was brand new, but you don’t see that in hoarded houses.
“THAT’S NOT A BIG QUESION??”
It’s a question I skipped since we have went back and forth on that in many different ways, however, the lying question was interesting to me.
“People aren’t hypocrites completely intentionally”
I would believe that if their wasn’t so much hypocrisy coming from such organizations, the boxing example was intentional, also, people for TZM sending me invites to Mafia Wars on facebook.
“People I would say get a thrill from lying intentionally”
I don’t know if Peter Joseph gets a thrill when hiding his last name, maybe he use to when he was in interviews and people didn’t know what he look like and shit, now, we know his last name is Merola as people exposed it on some forum when the first film came out and he still goes by Peter Joseph when he does interviews face to face, we know he’s not stupid and thinks that he’s still mysterious or else he would get a thrill from being called Peter Joseph, he’s lying intentionally, still.
“trying to be funny insults people who get trills from lying.”
You mean funny at people.
“Have fun driving”
I like having my own car.
“drinking”
Parties are fun.
“smoking”
I don’t smoke, but if people choose to smoke, that’s their choice.
“maybe all of them at the same time!”
Wow you’re mean.
“Again, are the going to force me to have “confidence” that their debt threat is justified?”
I heard going to a local credit union is good.
“There was apparently an arrest at an occupy protest where the police arrested someone just because they thought that person was the leader when occupy is LEGION.”
That’s not right. But anyways, I don’t think all cops are corrupt, solving crimes would be impossible to do if people didn’t know people’s names.
“It’s calling Ignoring the environmental situations that enabled me to do the bad actions by simply putting the blame ALL ON ME.”
That’s assuming everyone doesn’t have self control or else where that person lives, now becomes a empty neighborhood.
“They would be to do with maintaing apparenly clean business when all business is corrupt.”
But there are still businesses, so I guess not all businesses are corrupt, there might be some bad apples, but it doesn’t make all businesses corrupt.
“Facebook is apparently used by employers to check up on you”
Anyone can check up on you with Google.
“if they don’t like your private life that has been made public by the internet that can choose not to employ you.”
It’s not private if it’s public.
“I mean that WE DON’T KNOW ALL THE DAMN LAWS THAT THEY HAVE WRITTEN. They whoever they is can keep writing laws and we can break them without knowing what the law is. Then of course we can claim ignorance, but that’s only if we claim ignorance.”
If that person doesn’t claim ignorance, and the law was broken, then that’s the person’s fault.
“Doesn’t seem that way to me, But I maybe wrong.”
Two words: Cassie Anthony
“why would an attitude that doesn’t want people to talk to each other allow the internet?.”
The people out number that attitude every time.
“The audio from that video was low. I really don’t know him or anyone else who rotates on Peter Joseph Merola’s blogtalkradio show.”
The zeitgeist movement must really be a threating movement if they don’t even have the money to have good sound.
“wtf”
inflation must not even happen according to you.
“So then I guess banks can’t go bankrupt.”
The commerical banks and the central bank are different. The commerical banks don’t have enough money to cover what they owe to the people, the reason I say this is because if everyone went out and requested the money the banks owe them (money in people’s accounts), commerical banks apparently then collaspe.
There’s more debt in the system than money, bankruptcy is built in. It’s a self-defeating system.
“I don’t think everyone in church is mind controlled by the pastor to stay there.”
“Praise the lord! what are we gonna do? Praise the lord! Praise Jesus! Praise Jesus!” Obviously that’s not influencing gulliable people. “Hail hitler!” “Praise Jesus!”
“Then we would still be in the dark ages then, or, according to your logic, much worse if we really live in intellectual slavery as you say.”
To an EXTENT yes we still live in an intellectual dark ages even in the information age. Why don’t you watch youtube videos of hardcore christans so see the irrational.
“Actually it isn’t.”
Suggesting good ideas isn’t science? The seeing how feasiable those ideas are? I don’t think you create anything but misery for yourself.
“If people wanted to be truly self-sufficient, I agree.”
This is the idea behind the RBE, except all people not just a few that want to be “self-sufficient”.
“I don’t think people are forced to be ebeggars.”
“fat elf” must have died of hunger then for you to say that lol.
“No wanting to have a toilet wipe your ass for you is.”
Technology is MEANT TO make life easier. As I said before, what’s the point of inventing technology or not inventing technology to make life HARDER.
Do you want life to get harder for people in an age where we apparently have increasing progress of technology?
“People work for companies, so I do both.”
People that work for companies are working for the people at the top of that company. The person at the top of a large company gets paid the most. Do you think EVERYONE in a company gets an equal amount of money?
“He said it with a sense of humour.”
Rude humour isn’t funny. Family guy isn’t funny.
“would engage with them thru debate, or conversation, but I wouldn’t make a personal goal to be “offensive”.”
I’m saying they might be simply offended just because of my views, without me trying to be offensive.
“some people for TZM think she is trying to be more famous by using TZM”
I had never heard of brandy BEFORE TZM, so she couldn’t have been that famous. You’re missing the point, it’s about how valid the information or data is, the TZM orentation video didn’t use testimony.
Watch the scientology orientation video and you’ll see a lot of it is based on testimony, not data and facts. (skip into it).
(downloading vid)
“TZM is not the only cult out there.”
Cults are going to keep popping up unless you address why they pop up. Unless you want to pointlessly keep fighting them without asking the question “WHY DO CULTS FORM?”
“Even in a RBE, people will still have their houses and accounts, contradicting with the whole common heritage thing, still.”
Well…no… first you said they advocate no property, now you’re saying we advocate property. The Earth is considered home, not a single house. Accounts in what? bank accounts? lol
“then they wouldn’t be a critic.”
To be critical of something is to examine it for its validity. To simple say “I disagree” doesn’t do anything critical.
“I don’t think critical thinkers are usually depressed people.”
Hah!
“So they’re not critical thinkers.”
you ignored what I said, read it again “they’re depressed because they don’t like the current social situation hence they want to imagine something better.”
“You should dump your money in the middle of the street like Z3 if you have no confidence in your money.”
We’ve been through this before, it would take most of the population to loose their faith or confidence in money for the monetary system to be stopped by human beings. One way or another the money system will end because it’s demands are not reasonable on human beings and considering we live on a finite planet.
It’s recommended that WE stop the money system in Z3 before we destroy the our society by continuing its insanity.
“People always present data in some way and it can’t just be realised, you’re using that psychic logic on me again.”
“It can’t just be realised”? So you ignore the data that’s presented and the patterns that might follow considering the data that has been collected? (on oil production)
“To call someone a troll because they are pessimistic and don’t believe in utopias is unfair.”
Utopia is a common complaint, do you think I don’t know the meaning of that word? It means “Perfect situation”. Now a perfect situation is impossible because we live in a world that has time. Time enables things to decay and build. So we must organise society in such a way so we know how things decay and how things naturally build to build the most stable society possible. This is over the consumer society we have now. NO IT CAN’T BE PERFECT.
“No it says “reform or revolution” in that video. To him of course, revolution means RBE and he wants to be sneaky and use it for the RBEM idea only.”
Go back to that video I’m pretty sure he says “now obviously there can be a plan that incorporates both”.
“You’re tricking people by loading the language still, that reminds me, I was reading Jim Jesus’ blog and he said something funny and that the words “Resource-Based Economy” is as redundant as saying “anal butt sex”. I lol’d yesterday about that. If you trick people into thinking what you’re presenting is much better according to what they have now, that will create hate for what’s proposed. Also, awhile back, after saying this, I suggested that TZM should be called RBE movement, well, to avoid looking like a cult, you should come up something else.”
Loading the language? Can you understand me? I haven’t been saying RBE all the time I say Open-source social system sometimes.
“you’re presenting is much better according to what they have now”
It’s up to them to research if a social system based on scientific resource management is better than the consumer life-style we have now. I can’t do thinking for people. It’s what I might suggest or I might say “consider this”. But I can’t say “YOU WILL BE PART OF THE RBE SOCIETY I’M GOING TO FORCE YOU” that’s not my style.
If we look like a cult, I can’t take away that impression no matter what the label because that’s what you think about people who support the use of science to manage resources.
“I’m sure use electronics more than daily.”
they must be MORE anti-social without the internet, hey I might be.
“Someone that spends too much time on electronics is someone I would consider a junkie.”
That’s a matter of social and public health.
“I can tell you all my concerns, but I will still have concerns, if I didn’t have concerns, I would be an advocate, but I don’t advocate cults.”
Keep those concerns coming!
now time for the overflow gotta type it here this time.
(gotta still download this Capitalist vs Socialist vs Creationist)
“I don’t want to buy a movie in order to debate you, I buy movies to enjoy.”
gimme a second.
http://swfchan.com/21/102909/?Throw_a_rock.swf
I converted it to flash for you to watch.
“Well people say “one nation under GOD” and “GOD bless America” too.”
Yep, as jeter Jorola fresco says “who are you to tell God who to bless?”
“I blame gambling!”
The system is a big casino (to me).
“I didn’t know things was suppose to love people.”
I’m talking about the social relations in the marketplace.
“There’s transparency for that:”
Just like wikileaks.
Also something interesting I noticed. People who make open-source projects know the criticisms of being labelled communist just like people who support TZM or TVP, and I found that interesting (see image).
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/528/grhgre.jpg/
“when you program open-source, you’re programming communism. A reminder from your friends at Microsoft”
whew! anymore concerns about TZM?
Holy shit there’s more I’ll have to respond to it later.
“Obviously that’s not influencing gulliable people.”
People come and go as they please I thought.
“Suggesting good ideas isn’t science?”
If it’s a scientific one.
“fat elf” must have died of hunger then for you to say that lol.”
Because if he doesn’t get a new computer from his chipin donations, he’ll die from starvation because of inflation making electronics so expensive as he would be stupid enough to put his ebegging money together with his grocery money [from being landlord of his trailer] which maybe why the court may not think he should have custody of his kids.
“Do you want life to get harder for people in an age where we apparently have increasing progress of technology?”
I don’t want people living in the woods, but then again, if they want too, that’s their right.
“People that work for companies are working for the people at the top of that company.”
The longer people work for a company, the more they move up as well.
“You’re missing the point”
TZM does testimonies as if joining the cult changed their lives, they hide videos, uploaded a Scientology video as if that video is their own called “History of Human Rights”, make people suicidal, they are desperate for celebrity attention, Peter Joseph Merola and Tom Cruise wear black turtle shirts, they both think they can bring peace, damn, they still aren’t Scientology, as if my argument from the beginning was that they are Scientologists and not like Scientology.
“it’s about how valid the information or data is, the TZM orentation video didn’t use testimony.”
I heard they are doing a new video for TZM orientation, lets see what happens with that, I guess they got to make sure their shit is valid this time.
“Cults are going to keep popping up unless you address why they pop up.”
I blame gullibility.
“Well…no… first you said they advocate no property, now you’re saying we advocate property.”
Even in a RBE, I don’t think people will be comfortable living in igloo houses with doors without locks on them.
“Accounts in what?”
Emails, social networks, etc.
“To simple say “I disagree” doesn’t do anything critical.”
As I’m sure there is more to it than that which made them say “I disagree”.
“you ignored what I said, read it again “they’re depressed because they don’t like the current social situation hence they want to imagine something better.”
I read it twice.
“One way or another the money system will end”
I lol’d. If that’s what people for TZM really think, then I don’t know why they are depressed and so threatened by critics.
“So you ignore the data that’s presented and the patterns that might follow considering the data that has been collected?”
Let me know when TZM starts working on the Global Redesign Institute and starts collecting data about how much of what we have.
“Go back to that video I’m pretty sure he says “now obviously there can be a plan that incorporates both”.
You can’t have a global RBE and monetary reform at the same time.
“gimme a second.”
I rather not.
“Yep, as jeter Jorola fresco says “who are you to tell God who to bless?”
When people say God bless America, I think people, like presidents tell people that God does bless America, as a way to cheer up people, not demanding to be blessed with everyone by God, if they were demanding to be blessed, they would look up and say “God, bless America”, I thought.
“The system is a big casino (to me).”
I didn’t know a big prison could be a big casino too.
“Just like wikileaks.”
You proved Peter Joseph Merola wrong, people still remember Wikileaks.
“People who make open-source projects know the criticisms of being labelled communist just like people who support TZM or TVP”
I think people call RBE communism because the critics don’t think those who operate the central computer will be able to provide abundance [which I think is hinted in Z3 when Peter Joseph Merola says there should be "strategic access"] and which will resort to rationing and I don’t know how you can ration open source programs or instructions that anyone can download. Also, Peter Joseph Merola likes praising Karl Marx, if you listened to that Joe Rogan interview.
“People come and go as they please I thought.”
You can’t have people coming and going as they please if they feel guilty and feel they must “PRAISE JESUS”, just like people were induced with a lot of fear to say “Hail hitler!”
“If it’s a scientific one.”
Then you need to be scientific in your assessment of an idea to see if it’s scientific or not. The question is how do we build green cities?
“Because if he doesn’t get a new computer from his chipin donations, he’ll die from starvation because of inflation making electronics so expensive as he would be stupid enough to put his ebegging money together with his grocery money [from being landlord of his trailer] which maybe why the court may not think he should have custody of his kids.”
Inflation makes life hell.
What a loving social system, it allows people to be stupid. “Court may think” The court doesn’t know what’s good and what’s bad for people from a scientific perspective since it thinks torture is a good idea.
“I don’t want people living in the woods.”
Then you should embrace the idea of technology replacing areas where people would have been employed.
“The longer people work for a company, the more they move up as well.”
You don’t have everyone becoming the CEO of a company.
“TZM does testimonies as if joining the cult changed their lives, they hide videos, uploaded a Scientology video as if that video is their own called “History of Human Rights”, make people suicidal, they are desperate for celebrity attention, Peter Joseph Merola and Tom Cruise wear black turtle shirts, they both think they can bring peace, damn, they still aren’t Scientology, as if my argument from the beginning was that they are Scientologists and not like Scientology.”
From the videos I’ve seen the “why I advocate” videos, they talk about the elements of society they don’t like and why it needs to change. They don’t directly say what’s in the scientology orientation video which is “scientology changed my life” and that’s it.
They can’t hide videos since poeople like you repost them! That’s a good thing I encourage you to keep doing that.
“History of Human Rights” Ummm… did you focus on the content of that video at all?
“make people suicidal” you need direct proof of that, TZM members haven’t been telling me to commit suicide at all. They have not been able to since I never talk to them.
“they are desperate for celebrity attention” If the ideas are important then you should not need celebrity attention. I remember once there was a video that highlighted that some actor saw moving forward, I disagree with doing that sort of stuff. But we need to remember too that celebrities are human beings, and if moving forward is thought provoking then we can’t take away the rights of a celebrity to express something intelligent even if that person is a celebrity.
“Peter Joseph Merola and Tom Cruise wear black turtle shirts” Haha!!
“they both think they can bring peace” It’s the collective that can bring peace, not a superhero.
“Scientologists” Well I’m like a human being with blood, bones, organs and flesh if that helps.
“I guess they got to make sure their shit is valid this time.”
That’s what science is all about (if they’re practicing science).
“I blame gullibility.”
This can only lead to bigger questions of course, what makes elements of society gulliable, and how do you prevent people from being gulliable?
“I don’t think people will be comfortable living in igloo houses with doors without locks on them.”
It depends on how much society is willing to love itself.
“Emails, social networks, etc.”
got me there!
“I read it twice.”
Well maybe not completely depressed, because in apathy you don’t want to do anything. Unhappy or angry more like it.
“I lol’d. If that’s what people for TZM really think, then I don’t know why they are depressed and so threatened by critics.”
Well if what TZM is saying is true that this society is going to crumble, then I don’t want the public to completely panic when their bubble of delusion bursts. That’ll cause havoc in itself.
“Let me know when TZM starts working on the Global Redesign Institute and starts collecting data about how much of what we have.”
Some resources can’t be tracked because all resources are currently assumed to be owned by large corporations. The data that can be collected can only be data, it doesn’t mean we can actually use those resources because the idea of absoulte ownership is currently in place.
“You can’t have a global RBE and monetary reform at the same time.”
If there was “monetary reform” it would only be temporary. I personally don’t want a complete collaspe where there’s just chaos. That’ll make transfering to a social system based on caring for people more difficult.
“I rather not.”
you sound so happy.
“When people say God bless America, I think people, like presidents tell people that God does bless America, as a way to cheer up people, not demanding to be blessed with everyone by God, if they were demanding to be blessed, they would look up and say “God, bless America”, I thought.”
It must be a depressing social system if the president needs to say “cheer up people!”
“I didn’t know a big prison could be a big casino too.”
Well because to me I’m force to gamble in a way. The chips in the money I don’t want yet I’m forced to have in my account because the current faith is towards money.
“You proved Peter Joseph Merola wrong, people still remember Wikileaks.”
Isn’t that great! The worst thing I saw come out of wikileaks was the video where a guy said “it’s their fault for bringing their kids to a battle” while he was in a combat helicopter. war makes hell on Earth.
“I think people call RBE communism because the critics don’t think those who operate the central computer will be able to provide abundance [which I think is hinted in Z3 when Peter Joseph Merola says there should be "strategic access"] and which will resort to rationing and I don’t know how you can ration open source programs or instructions that anyone can download. Also, Peter Joseph Merola likes praising Karl Marx, if you listened to that Joe Rogan interview.”
Well it’s people apparently overseeing a system. The system is there for you to maintain so you and the people around you can get what they need (in theory).
The abundance is made with “strategic access” to things yes. You can’t have everyone owning 100 room mansions like the rich.
He praised Karl Marx for some quote that he made, not the entire communism experiment that went on in Russia.
The internet enables anyone on the internet to download open-source programs now! You could say open-source programs are being “rationed” now.
the following is overflow!
“If everything they hoarded in their house was brand new, but you don’t see that in hoarded houses.”
With advertising what is blasted is the idea that you need to own stuff. Brand new or not, the idea is that you’re cool if you own things. This might developinto an addiction to owning stuff which is labelled hoarding.
I argue that a family collectively is a “hoarder”, because we’ve moved house a few times and there’s was a tonne of stuff that we got rid of from the owned house.
Also next door there was a family that piled a whole bunch of stuff on their front lawn for the hard rubbish crew to collect. So you might have a family of minor hoarders, but collectively it’s the mentality of the sick hoarder you might see on crap-a-vision (TV).
“It’s a question I skipped since we have went back and forth on that in many different ways, however, the lying question was interesting to me.”
The only way to get to the truth is through good questions.
“I would believe that if their wasn’t so much hypocrisy coming from such organisations, the boxing example was intentional, also, people for TZM sending me invites to Mafia Wars on facebook.”
I can’t represent the whole zeitgeist movement, the boxing example can’t represent the whole movement, the people that made that boxing video are trolls intentional or not. For example the anonymous movement on the internet, some of the operations that they get up to you could not highlight as honourable. (Like pointlessly harassing people on the internet).
Yet there are actions that anonymous does that shine through their despicable ones. Proving that anonymous and zeigeist aren’t perfect. I recently heard on the crap-a-vision that anonymous managed to temporarily take down a “department of justice” website. How ironic, the motto of the police is that no one escapes the law yet anonymous overpowered them, I couldn’t stop myself from laughing. It sounded just like the scene in V for Vendetta where the protagonist destory’s the statue of lady justice.
“when hiding his last name”
Names are not important, to focus on the importance of names deviates from the information at hand. It’s about information not people. I mean scientology critics focus on the operation of the cult, they might mention the character of the people in it, but the way a cult operates is more important that what people’s names are. Don’t you know that?
“he’s lying intentionally, still.”
Why the heck is Jeter Jorloph Fresco’s name important to you? I don’t care what my name is for example. Do you want to know his date of birth and his favourite colour too? We are all a member of anonymous! (according to anonymous).
Is he hiding the fact that he’s a man made of flesh, blood and bones? In the occupy video I linked you he’s physically there answering questions about the “cult”. Imagine asking for an interview with the current leader of scientology, that would not happen. Imagine asking for an discussion about moral behaviour with a CEO of a cigarette corporation.
“You mean funny at people.”
Well if I can give myself a laugh because I know someone’s lying that’s what’s important to me. By the way I’m a member of the FBI!
“The following is overflow! If I miss anything, you have to tell me.”
Hey! you’re not at a library! I imagine your computer has the internet all the time! Well it’s important that you tell me if I miss something since you’re a critic of TZM. You should value what I say to you if you think zeitgeist is a secretive cult like Scientology. (This is the constant comparison made since there’s a picture of Jeter Jorolaph Fresco’s face on the body of someone from scientology (Tom Cruise If I’m not mistaken)).
“You can only feel that way if you live with your parents and don’t have a job.”
Insolent comment. This is not a social system, it is an antisocial system. The fact that a person can feel like a social outcast means we live in an arrangement that doesn’t care if people are happy not not.
We focus on the health and wellbeing of money not people, for example a meausrement of public health is not on the news every night. Instead we get the financial report, how well the stocks, trades, and investments are going as if it means something. The trading of goods and services has NOTHING to do with the happiness of people. I enjoy not having a job, doesn’t bring me all the happiness in the world, but I would be more unhappy than I am now if I was employed.
“I doubt every single person is in debt.”
“Every single dollar in your wallet is owed to somebody by somebody, for remember the only way the money can come into existence is from loans, therefore if everyone in the country were able to pay off all debts including the government, there would not be one dollar in circulation.” -Zeitgeist addendum
Apparently everyone is in debt, for you to have money in your wallet someone else had to go into debt and then give you that money. (HYPOTHETICALLY) If I took out a loan and then gave you the money I got from that loan, that doesn’t get rid of my debt to the bank, in fact it puts me under more pressure because I need to use that loan money to get more money to pay it back with interest. That’s the catch though, someone isn’t going to have the money to pay their debts simply because of the scarce amount of money in supply. Which gives the bank the right to claim collateral on what you own. If you were rich would you use your money to ensure you get richer even if it was at the world’s detriment?
So is there debt relief for everyone?
“How do you bail out a planet?” -Moving Forward
Knowing corporations, I don’t see how a bank would be nice enough to give us money. They would propably do something destructive to people and ironically to their own existence like “interest”. When people walk into banks, do banks give people money or do they have to take out loans?
“That’s the type of job you want then.”
I don’t wish to be paid with money for doing a job. Employment is insulting because it’s lying to people. You can’t use money to substitute love.
“I don’t smoke, but if people choose to smoke, that’s their choice.”
If the environment is set up in such a way to induce people to smoke, I can’t see how it’s completely their choice. They didn’t make the cigarettes themselves, they come from a cigarettes corporation. A business that makes money from selling smokes.
Some of the most corrupt advertising I’ve seen is from cigarette corportations where you see pictures of happy couples smoking on the packet.
For some people it might be a fashion statement to smoke or peer pressure. For others it might be an attempt to reduce stress.
Again these are matters of public health, smoking is not a healthy choice for a society.
“Wow you’re mean.”
I was joking there, couldn’t you tell? drinking smoking and driving? come on.
“I heard going to a local credit union is good.”
All corporations need people’s confidence in them for them to be real. However the difference between having confidence in money or business and figuring out our reality with science, is that the laws of nature were already here for us to be discovered, the laws of nature are not invented when they were discovered. Every math equation we can solve has already been solved by our reality for us to discover it.
We didn’t start walking on the ground when gravity was discovered. If corporations were natural then the world of business and commerical advertising wouldn’t need to be so desperate!
“That’s not right. But anyways, I don’t think all cops are corrupt, solving crimes would be impossible to do if people didn’t know people’s names.”
This is exactly why anonymous worships the idea of being anonymous. Blaming and punishing a person doesn’t do justice, plus sometimes the crimes the police claim anonymous to be doing are not breaking moral law at all.
For example breaking copyright is not breaking a moral crime because no one is getting hurt, yet it hurts the profit prospects of business which is why they call it a crime. There are these copyright warning posters all around the computer area in the library, do you think I obey them?
Solving a murder case for example, they only try to determine who did the murder because it damages the flow of money around the marketplace. (according to “HOW I CLOBBERED EVERY BUREAUCRATIC CASH-CONFISCATORY AGENCY KNOWN TO MAN by Mary Elizabeth: Croft”)
Do the police really care why people kill each other? Well no, because they torture them more by sending people to prison. I mean how is it a sign that they care if they send people to torture facilities?
“That’s assuming everyone doesn’t have self control or else where that person lives, now becomes a empty neighborhood.”
If the environmental situation is desperate enough people do not roll over and die. Are you saying people who fail to have “self-control” should be intensly punished?
People who commit murder are not criminals, they are mentally sick.
“there is no such thing as a criminal” -TZM orientation video
“all businesses corrupt.”
The premise of where all money comes from is corrupt, and money is the blood of all business. The idea that a piece of paper can have value over what is really valuable is fraud. I mean if I write $500 million dollars on a piece of paper I’m doing something illegal yet bankers are allowed to do it and consequently making this modern day world of illusionary business.
It’s fascist, the bankers are the lawmakers because they tell me I can’t write numbers on a piece of paper and call it “money”.
“Anyone can check up on you with Google.”
Exactly, there’s no such thing as privacy really anymore. It’s laugable when people talk about their right to privacy because if people really wanted a right to privacy, then there should’ve been protests in the street, people crying out saying that they didn’t want the internet. What’s interesting about anonymous though is that you can figure out ways of making identity difficult to trace with Proxy Servers.
Yet this medium also allows employers to judge you and deem certain elements of your personality as unacceptable behaviour and then they fire you.
This of course ignores why people behave in certain ways, instead of looking at the problem an employer can fire you for what you say on facebook to your friends. (see image).
“It’s not private if it’s public.”
Exactly, it’s the dissolving of the private life. People want a private life, away from employement and the monetary-market world, yet to an extent they can’t escape from it because of the internet. Unless you don’t go on those sorts of mediums on the internet and only use chat services.
Of course there’s the peer pressure element where people will request that you to make a facebook account.
“If that person doesn’t claim ignorance, and the law was broken, then that’s the person’s fault.”
Pinning all the blame on a person for doing something wrong ignores the problem. People like a problem to be shared than to have the blame all on them.
Of course we have to define the crime. If the crime that has been broken doesn’t break moral law, then the law is flawed.
“Two words: Cassie Anthony”
I don’t know who that is I’ll have to look that person up. But from my perspective the police WANT people to be guilty of crimes because it’s literally their job to catch crooks.
There would be policemen out there that want people to be guilty since the job itself is to catch people for crimes. In otherwords they’re looking for people that break the law, that’s wanting people to be guilty.
The worst thing ever I’ve seen advertised is shows that depict the day in the life of a police officer. You can tell some of them get off from having that sense of power by enforcing the law. It’s shows a lack of any real heart. It’s like an adult telling a child “don’t do that again” “I’ll let you off with a warning” and so on. It’s no wonder people sometimes use the term “nanny state”.
What are we guilty of? Being human? Reacting in a way that showed we were human beings making acting like a human being under a certain set of circumstances unacceptable? The police are not helpful.
The worst video of police I’ve seen is of about four male police officers holding down a woman for apparently commiting a crime.
“The people out number that attitude every time.”
That’s good news! Hopefully the many will always out number that attitude because I like the internet even if I only get my turn at a library.
By the way, is there any evidence that “zeitgeist: the movie” turns people into murderers yet? It’s still implied by the newest blog post I saw on this page. whoever posted that needs to ask the question “what creates a killer?” and not simply say “a evil internet documentary turns people into killers”. It’s a cop-out and it doesn’t address the causes of social problems.
Now to respond to the videos!
“Constructive_Critisism_of_Zeitgeist.flv”
Firstly before my response I recommend you contact the maker of this video so he can read my criticism, I’m asking this of course because my only interaction with the internet is through the library thanks in advance.
“Zeitgeist movement’s latest movie; Moving Forward”… Well Peter Fresco made that movie, not the whole zeitgeist movement. Only if you take Peter Fresco’s words to heart that we’re all a member of the zeitgeist movement as in we’re all part of the cultural climate then yes that’s correct. It’s like how anonymous says we’re all members of anonymous.
“focuses on the heart of the problem without any of the conspiracy”
Well we can’t deny the existence of conspiracy though because doing that is conspiracy. Unhealthy societies engage in conspiracy. In fact there is conspiracy highlighted in Moving forward!
The part in HUMAN NATURE, talks about how the current social values enable people to get away with immoral actions yet they are rewarded by money or profits for their actions. Gabor Mate talks about an addiction to power a person might have at the expensive of human life – that’s a conspiratorial idea. It’s an argument for conspiracy that’s more difficult to deny.
conspiracy (noun)
3. A group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose.
Conspiracy is a moral issue, what causes people to engage in harmful actions?
“but once they find that it’s linked to the last two movies will show a lot of conspiracy and it’s been proven that there’s a lot of misinformation (in them)”
He’s saying that after you watch a supposedly good documentary, and then you watch the others in the series that apparently have bad reputations that will discourage someone from promoting the soultions is this correct? I’ll quickly go through the zeitgiest series.
Z:1
prologue: War is bad.
Part 1: religion is a fraud.
part 2: Conspiracy is bad, “your life has value!”
part 3: money is worthless bits of paper, war is profitable.
closing: Love is good.
Z:2
prologue: humanity is enduring money like a pain in the arse.
part 1: money is made out of thin air.
part 2: Banks put countries in debt to enslave them
part 3: The marketplace isn’t compassionate, we need a RBE.
part 4: the emergent and symbiotic nature of reality, join TZM!
closing: give up religion and cry a colourful tear!
Z:3
prologue: the free market is annoying.
part 1: human beings need love
part 2: adam smith never fathomed the world of “Investment”
part 3: What is a RBE?
Part 4: addressing critics, divisions and labels, “You moron utopianist!”
closing: dump your money in front of the bank, join TZM!
This is fundamentally what the zeitgeist series is, there might be some misinformation in there but what’s wrong with the premise of the whole series? As in, if this mode of social operation isn’t working and is annoying to some people what’s wrong with attempting to imagine something better? In terms of social evolution it’s demanded that we imagine something better to progress to a better society. In other words to say “competiton isn’t going anywhere” is a static idea, socities undergo change and when it’s required that we must embrace that change.
The main problem is zeitgeist: the movie only covers the solution in one line of the whole film.
“if people ever figure out the truth of their relationship to nature and of their personal power, the entire manufactured zeitgeist they pray upon will collapse like a house of cards” -zeitgeist: the movie
Also; “It’s been proven” Show the proof of the disinformation, that would be helpful. I can’t prove the most outrageous claims but there are three basic truths about zeitgeist:the movie which are easy to understand. Firstly, all the magical stories in religion require an outrageous amount of evidence, to have faith that they are true without proof is delusional, this delusion is damaging to society because books like the bible tell people to go kill people for not believing in the magical stories. Secondly, from whatever angle you look at it the events on 9/11 was a conspiracy by the literal meaning of the word conspiracy unless you were a conspirator. And thirdly love is more valuable than money, it’s a fact that modern day banks have to sell the idea of money to humans.
“should have released it under a different name”
People who have beliefs in the marketplace will be offended by moving forward under whatever name you give it. Marketplace believers would not want marketplace doctrines to be proven wrong anymore than someone proving the bible wrong.
This is of course the difference between science and religion, in science you update information or data, in religion the book is always the same, is always right, and everyone else is wrong. There’s never going to be a “Third Testament”.
“inspires revolution”
Revolution (noun)
1. A drastic and far-reaching change in ways of thinking and behaving
2. “The overthrow of a government by those who are governed”
Govern (verb)
1. Bring into conformity with rules or principles or usage; impose regulations
Well it depends what kind of revolution is inspired. In the revolution sequence it says “while no violence has been reported but there’s been billions of dollars dumped in front of the banks” -moving forward
“Now because they don’t have a fully functional model that solves all problems”
Excuse me but, it’s your job to tell us where the model is flawed. You must have a problem solving attitude. That what you do when you’re scientific. You say “I see a problem here and here, and here’s the solution to it”. In other words you help with the model thats being designed.
Don’t leave members of TZM in the dark, I’m asking this person where the holes in the RBE are!
“There’s no way someone could come up with this upfront”
Then help TZM to make the case for the RBE stronger.
“I’ve had a crack at coming up with a basic model but you would need to work on this for a long period of time.”
This is why Paque Fresph has been apparently working on the RBE for so long, but the point is you should be working on the idea with other people (people who can help with the idea). The RBE idea is based on people working together in a cooperative society, so logically people making the RBE doctrine or whatever should be working together to make it.
“If people got inspired and did start overthrowing the government”
Where was the violent revolution sequence in moving forward?? Soon I’m going to put up posters that encourage open-source is that violent?? (evil activism lol).
“In demand of a RBE”
there are no technicians in government, there’s only politicians! You can’t demand an RBE from the Government! lol!
“it’s not thorough enough model”
This is why we need your brain to help TZM members work on it on the idea! Point out where it’s not thorough.
“more than happy to take on the role of a hero and then become a dictator”
Last time I heard Peter Fresco speak about TZM (The Joe Rogan Experience) he claimed yet again that he doesn’t want to be seen as a hero. The same with the Blogtalkradio address where he dislikes getting emails from people asking him what to do.
If people think this idea is important enough then people might want to stick to what is scientifically possible without extremely egoistical behaviour getting in the way.
Why would I want to become a hero or leader? I don’t know how to design the infrastructure required for a RBE, at best I can speak about the social values that require changing, yet still scientifically defined morals need to be discovered in a unbiased manner without my opinion. My input is only valid if it’s scientifically valid.
Tell TZM ways to prevent dictators from forming in a group if that’s your concern.
“because power will corrupt”
Well besides the claim that Fresco Joseph is the leader of TZM there needs to be more evidence. A start would be proving I’m receiving orders from Fresco Joseph to engage in this response I’m making to this youtube video. Where are those evil nazi commands people are receiving from Fresco Joseph? I can’t get them because I DON’T HAVE AN E-MAIL ADDRESS.
“Mr. Joseph’s power structure”
Oh here we go…It’s not about the people in the zeitgeist movement, it’s about the validity of the science.
“You cannot stop technologies that make sense” -Moving Forward.
Mr. Joseph’s going to become an evil dictator? LOL!
“what I think the best idea would be is to this on a much smaller scale”
You need to remember, what you think isn’t science. What is proven by science is science. What is the best course of action for the RBE idea?
It’s argued in moving forward that the RBE needs to be a global system because we are all on one planet. All of humanity needs to work together and make an inventory of all the planets resources so we can establish what we can do on the planet in the fairest possible way for all the members of the planet.
Right now we have resource mismanagement since you have the rich owning 100 room mansions while you have the poor living in trailer parks. The rich would be most threatened by this idea because they think it’s their right to look down on the poor.
“Show that it can work on a much smaller scale”
If he’s talking about technology, a lot of automated technology is shown throughout moving forward, including briefly the contour crafting technology. Also you can probably look up automated technology videos on youtube.
If he’s talking about social values, the human being’s health needs to be examined concerning where it’s living under certain value systems to enable us to know what kind of value system is healthy for the human being.
The idea is for it to work on a global scale not a small scale because the planet is being considered as the system. We have natural weather systems on this planet for example that are global.
“migrating towards this city”
Well we want to social values of society to change, we’re not going to build a city and say “hey come over here involuntarily unemployed people!”
“and it would grow and evolve”
It’s about the changing of values not circumventing the current monetary system.
“The real revolution is the revolution of conscience” -zeitgeist addendum
“And the problems that come with a larger community would be resolved piece by piece”
The current social values are sick.
“we are dealing with a value system disorder” -Moving forward
I highly doubt, building a city then trying to change the social values is a good idea. I said this before that bullies would make the venus project into havoc.
“But just wiping global civisation and replacing it isn’t going to happen”
Wiping? I’m not going to go kill people, we’re both here and we have to work together.
If by “wiping” he means “changing the social values” isn’t going to happen, that’s a negative attitude. It’s not a problem solving attitude. How do we change the social values? is the question, saying that isn’t going to happen does not answer than question.
“some king decides to impliment it somewhere”
What so people can’t collectively decide the fate of humanity only an authority can?
“people shouldn’t fear their governments, governments should fear their people” V for Vendetta
“there’s no way this going to work through revolution it’ll only work through ”
It depends what kind of “revolution” he’s talking about.
Evolution (noun)
1. A process in which something passes by degrees to a different stage (especially a more advanced or mature stage)
“the evolution of Greek civilization”
The word evolution and revolution are similar that you could use either word concerning what we’re talking about. The word evolution to me implies change over long length of time, while revolution means change over a short length of time.
It depends on how much people hate money if we move into an open-source social system and how much we embrace change.
“and its been going for a very long time”
Well, with the internet it has enabled people to come together and say “hey, we don’t like what we’ve categorised as the current global social values”.
“Declare a sovereignty or an area of land that’s sovereign from australia”
Wow! that makes me feel so much safer considering there’s people out there with beliefs that using guns is a good idea. I’ll sleep well tonight in my declared sovereign area.
“you want to be self sufficient before you did that”
I’d have to build a tall concrete wall around my declared sovereign area, so no I don’t think that’s the answer. Plus self sufficient how? there’s still uneducated people burning fossil fuels!
“import export duties”
THAT’S BECAUSE WE’RE IN A GLOBAL MARKETPLACE!
“Small ways that this is happening all over the world”
What happens if the efforts of the people doing the small efforts combine?
“control systems are at the point where they’re getting better and better at automating everything”
That’s good news, if by “everything” he means “all the hard labour that no one wants to do”.
“It still has it’s flaws”
Of course we’ve be discussing this, the internet for example isn’t completely free, you still have to pay for information. Seriously do people still have to pay for dail-up? With inflation the cost for dail-up is going to increase.
“Open voting system”
There’s no vote. You research the best actions or the best way to form a technology. There’s no vote for the way your computer works, you discover what works and what does not.
“would you want to vote on everything that went through parliament”
Again there’s no vote, you assess what is healthy and what is unhealthy towards people. You can’t vote for example if mercury is bad or not for the human being, mercury is bad for the human being period. Voting is an insult to science.
“Most people want to live their lives”
I can’t live my life if the monetary system makes me feel annoyed.
“they aren’t all politically minded”
It would suck to be someone who is “politically minded”.
“They want to watch the latest televison show and power to them if that’s how they want to live their lives”
Not the negative propaganda machine (crap-a-vision), come on’ that statement supports the status-quo!
“It’s not for me to say you should vote on these things”
Voting is one of the cruelest delusions of the modern day.
“It’s not my place to say what makes people happy”
Love makes people happy period. If you’re giving and loving to people the only way people can hate you is because they’ve been given so much pain or fear in their life that they’re afraid of opening up.
What makes the human being happy is a scientific discovery. Saying it’s not your place is saying you don’t have the right to know certain things about this reality. What authority said you were not allowed to know certain things about the Cosmos?
“In conclusion”
The only thing I can do is encourage open-source (I linked you the new open-source poster I did). I can’t force people to think like I think. I can only attempt positive suggestions. Forcing people to think as how I think would be like being a Nazi Social Agent. And No I refuse to do that lol.
“If there’s problems over here in the world”
This project (the zeitgeist movement) is to encourage a shift of the current global social values to ones that are based on reality. We don’t want to leave problems over here and there as he’s saying.
“it’ll grow naturally”
I’m not sure I follow, this is a utopian idea he’s got going. The goal is to meet the needs of the worlds population. Not show off a utopian city and say “LOOK WHAT WE MADE!” that’s silly.
“but if you use revolution, you’re just going to put a dictator in place.”
Can you prove that? It also depends what this person means by his meaning of the word “revolution”.
“we wanna have guns”
If people love each other then I don’t think people will have a use for guns.
communism and capitalism isn’t science-ism. Those theories don’t measure what’s good and bad for the human being.
“before they start doing harm”
education is difficult when people are unwilling to learn. It’s like saying “it’s my right to ingest mercury”. You can only shake your head at them.
“what we want is democracy”
It’s important to note here that I’m not for democracy. The best way I can put it is I’m for scientific democracy. As in, your say matters if what you’re saying is scientifically valid. Otherwise democracy can turn into anything. It’s called “Mob rule” I think.
“The freedom to live our lives as we see fit”
No it’s how your body sees fit. Remember to drink water and eat food.
“worry about bills and things like that”
here I agree, these are the everyday pressures from the market model. He doesn’t sound happy with the market model, proving the that the market does not provide for all people. Otherwise people for the most part would be happy.
“extra contribution that you can have two houses”
*Rolls eyes* all I want is love as payment for the things I do, not two houses or any amount of money. Love takes away pain. Love is the motivation NOT ITEMS. Up to a point items can only give emptiness. Is he going to kiss his two houses?
“If you do the bare minimum you will survive”
If love was the payment for my actions then I would not want to do the bare minimum.
“and you want this for everbody on the planet”
That’s the goal all human needs met, yes.
That’s my response, again I recommend you send to the person who made this video my response to it. Now onto the next video.
“Capitalist_vs_Socialist_vs_Creationist.flv”
HAHAHAHA!! THAT’S GREAT thanks for that or should I say “well that was interesting”.
He should do a video that includes a crazy RBE advocate as well.
Seriously, though if you do not plan you plan to fail. Our reality itself is the authority and it should be treated as such. Not Karl Marx, not Peter Fresco, or any human being, not God, The Cosmos. I find it very amusing when I found out that religious people don’t want God to be omnipresent when they say things like “God is always watching you”. It shows that religious people want to get away with some of their actions. You can’t have God as an entity and as omnipresent it’s one of the two.
Current social organisations do not work, a sign that you have unhappy and poor people in your social system is a sign that it’s not working. Or it’s working to be harmful to the people who live in that social system.
“Science replaces private prejudice with publically verifiable evidence.” -Richard Dawkins
The authority is not “up above” the laws of chemistry and physics are the omnipresent. You cannot escape them.
“The_Zeitgeist_Movement_Official_Blog_-_Coming_Soon!.flv”
I’ve seen this video before, maybe it was removed because the “Official blog” is now here? Still it’s on the internet anyway because you linked me to it. On the internet it seems censorship is becoming impossible, that’s good news for the both of us.
I’ll search youtube for that movie I linked you (lord of war).
http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DiHMY1ogf-Kg%26list%3DUUmecS-st_QYDPvug2cutrow%26index%3D10%26feature%3Dplcp
God damn censorship! They’ve censored some of “Lord of war” Under copyright claim!
The corporations that you deem as “bad apples” do the best business.
Anymore concerns about TZM?
“You can’t have people coming and going as they please if they feel guilty and feel they must “PRAISE JESUS”
I didn’t know that was the only reason why people went to church.
“just like people were induced with a lot of fear to say “Hail hitler!”
I didn’t know Jesus Christ killed millions of people.
“The court doesn’t know what’s good and what’s bad for people from a scientific perspective since it thinks torture is a good idea.”
Whoever took him to court would have to prove that his children fail to thrive with a doctor’s testimony from the last visit to the one before that, maybe comparing how much they weigh from the past to now, for an example, VTV might have a problem and the court can decide on that, starving your children because you want a new computer is torture to me.
“You don’t have everyone becoming the CEO of a company.”
I still support companies so that people don’t get laid off.
“They don’t directly say what’s in the scientology orientation video which is “scientology changed my life” and that’s it.”
I’ll examine the new orientation video when it comes out, if it ever comes. But anyways I have seen videos where people get over emotional about being in Zeientology, I’ll show you one:
I don’t expect people to hold up orientation guides either since it’s a ebook.
“Ummm… did you focus on the content of that video at all?”
I don’t focus on Scientology propaganda.
“TZM members haven’t been telling me to commit suicide at all.”
I’ve seen Zeitards tell critics to tho.
“This can only lead to bigger questions of course, what makes elements of society gulliable, and how do you prevent people from being gulliable?”
Encourage more critical thinking.
“Some resources can’t be tracked because all resources are currently assumed to be owned by large corporations.”
Damn I guess Global Redesign Institute will be a waste of time.
“you sound so happy.”
I wouldn’t feel happy feeling like I stole something, I don’t feel a value shift.
“It must be a depressing social system if the president needs to say “cheer up people!”
There’s hasn’t been another Great Depression tho.
“You can’t have everyone owning 100 room mansions like the rich.”
But I’ve been told in RBE, everyone will be living like Bill Gates, Jacque Fresco said that, I think.
“He praised Karl Marx for some quote that he made, not the entire communism experiment that went on in Russia.”
I still think he kisses Karl Marx.
“With advertising what is blasted is the idea that you need to own stuff.”
People have to advertise to get more business.
“the idea is that you’re cool if you own things.”
I value individuality.
“I argue that a family collectively is a “hoarder”
Or people living on their own.
“because we’ve moved house a few times and there’s was a tonne of stuff that we got rid of from the owned house.”
I hope you got rid of that stuff by donating to the Salvation Army or even sell that stuff if you’re struggling with bills, doing stuff like that can prevent hoarding and help those who can’t afford to get a lot of stuff for their own families.
“So you might have a family of minor hoarders, but collectively it’s the mentality of the sick hoarder you might see on crap-a-vision (TV).”
Parents buy toys and games for their children all the time, for an example, but the children can watch another commercial of a new toy or game and want that, not just any new toy or game commercial, a toy or game commercial that they like because it’s something they want. Then you have a pile of toys that the children stopped using all the sudden because they grow up and piled up because children I think like to play with different toys and games, I’m guessing that’s who you mean by “minor”. But anyways, playing with the same toys for your whole childhood sounds like torture to me, people are just naturally tired of having the same stuff.
“I recently heard on the crap-a-vision that anonymous managed to temporarily take down a “department of justice” website.”
Megaupload drama! I heard. Now that Megaupload link I gave you like 2 months ago is pointless.
“Well if I can give myself a laugh because I know someone’s lying”
Like how you said you find rude humour not funny and tell me I should drink and drive, and telling me you were joking about it doesn’t help.
“Well it’s important that you tell me if I miss something since you’re a critic of TZM.”
Well there was one time someone, a critic, posted a long ass post on a Pro-TZM site before and the post supposedly went to spam, so if there is anything I missed, you have to let me know, or else, I feel like I’m not doing a good job being a critic.
“someone from scientology”
But you linked me a Tom Cruise interview after saying no one from Scientology will give an interview, wait, you said current leader, damn. Well time will tell, as you say, who knows, maybe Peter Joseph Merola will stop giving interviews and try to hide out in a different country with his dual citizenship after telling people in interviews there’s no where to hide when promoting a Resource-Based Economy or RBEM when he goes hiding. But anyways, they are similar [cults] when a Zeitard yells troll and a Scientologists yells suppressive person. Also, they both think they are scientific and load the language, Scientology is not the study of Science pffffffffft.
“This is not a social system, it is an antisocial system.”
Bullshit or else we wouldn’t be communicating.
“Instead we get the financial report, how well the stocks, trades, and investments are going as if it means something.”
No when I watch the news, I get that, weather, local events, traffic updates, celebrity shit, etc.
“The trading of goods and services has NOTHING to do with the happiness of people.”
Fine don’t barter, be anti-social and keep telling me we live in an anti-social system when you force yourself to be anti-social.
“I enjoy not having a job”
You enjoy not helping people ? That’s fucked up.
“Apparently everyone is in debt”
I think anyone can be in debt, well maybe not the rich, but thru labor, which is valued in the monetary system, you can get out of debt from the loan you applied for by working more.
“I don’t see how a bank would be nice enough to give us money.”
I bet people are getting money from their tax refunds.
“For others it might be an attempt to reduce stress.”
So I heard.
“smoking is not a healthy choice for a society.”
I agree, I think society knows this as when you go to public places, they tell you, you can’t smoke.
“If corporations were natural then the world of business and commerical advertising wouldn’t need to be so desperate!”
If they don’t offer warranties, I’m not buying.
“Blaming and punishing a person doesn’t do justice”
I thought you didn’t advocate chaos.
“Solving a murder case for example, they only try to determine who did the murder because it damages the flow of money around the marketplace.”
I lol’d.
“Are you saying people who fail to have “self-control” should be intensly punished?”
Or hospitalized if they plead insanity, it depends, some assholes bullshit.
“People who commit murder are not criminals, they are mentally sick.”
Murder’s a crime, so they’re criminals.
“there is no such thing as a criminal” -TZM orientation video”
Only in a society without laws.
“I mean if I write $500 million dollars on a piece of paper I’m doing something illegal”
Your check is going to bounce.
“Yet this medium also allows employers to judge you and deem certain elements of your personality as unacceptable behaviour and then they fire you.”
They won’t hire people that they think have unacceptable behavior.
“instead of looking at the problem an employer can fire you for what you say on facebook to your friends.”
Make your profile private.
“Pinning all the blame on a person for doing something wrong ignores the problem.”
If cops finally caught a murderer, that solves the problem because that murderer isn’t murdering anyone else now. That tells me cops care about people. They also try to figure out why people commit crimes or else they wouldn’t have forensic psychiatrists.
“Of course we have to define the crime.”
It’s not that black and white, I agree.
“There would be policemen out there that want people to be guilty since the job itself is to catch people for crimes.”
Their risking their jobs then on the cases of false imprisonment.
“You can tell some of them get off from having that sense of power by enforcing the law.”
In the beginning of the shows you’re talking about, they usually start off by saying why they wanted to be a cop and they don’t say because they want to enforce the law because they want to be power junkies, I’m happy to know that VTV isn’t a cop, but are there cops like that ? Hopefully not a lot of them, but again, they risk their jobs.
“It’s like an adult telling a child “don’t do that again” “I’ll let you off with a warning” and so on.”
It’s better than getting arrested, see, if cops wanted to just arrest people and saw everyone as a criminal, they would, but I think you proved they don’t.
“The police are not helpful.”
All that time I thought they were serving and protecting us.
“is there any evidence that “zeitgeist: the movie” turns people into murderers yet?”
Ask Jared Lee Loughner’s best friend.
“Constructive_Critisism_of_Zeitgeist.flv”
You didn’t have to watch it, I just put it there in case you thought I was lying when people thought that Peter Joseph Merola could be seen as a dictator. So I think I’ll ignore the rest. I can pick out what you say in response to him if I wanted to, but then I’ll be constantly bothering him as you reply and as we debate what’s said in the video fully, I’m hesitant to contact anyone for TZM or TVP because they might yell harassment.
“I recommend you send to the person who made this video my response to it.”
He supports a RBE, I won’t waste my time or his.
“You can’t have God as an entity and as omnipresent it’s one of the two.”
The same could be said about surveillance too.
“I’ve seen this video before, maybe it was removed because the “Official blog” is now here?”
got me there!
lol zeintology
“I didn’t know that was the only reason why people went to church.”
I don’t have a bible on hand yet apparently the bible says “when sin was brought into the world for all man has sinned and they must beg God for forgiveness”
That’s what prayer is about, you pray for God’s mercy. Which is a reason-less guilt trip into getting people to go to church because it’s based on completely fictional magical imaginary stories that do not make sense.
“I didn’t know Jesus Christ killed millions of people.”
In the bible you’re apparently told to go kill non-believers. The logic of course is that the bible is the word of God and he never makes mistakes, plus he’s a loving God. Do you believe going around killing people is the message of an all loving God?
“Whoever took him to court would have to prove that his children fail to thrive with a doctor’s testimony from the last visit to the one before that, maybe comparing how much they weigh from the past to now, VTV might have a problem and the court can decide on that, starving your children because you want a new computer is torture to me. Torture is bad.”
What social environment allows for children not to thrive? An sick one that’s what. But children like computers. I remember as a child the Apple //e was great fun.
“Because everyone else is trying to find better jobs, go back to school, be self-employed, getting fired, working part time, etc.”
You can’t have everyone who is working for a single company becoming the CEO of that company. There is a hierarchy in place. Just like the hierarchy of society you are going to have someone else looking down on you from their social position.
This creates what peter fresco calls “psychosocial stress” which means the stress of feeling looked down on by other members of society apparently creates a range of health problems in society.
“I’ll show you one:”
Is this the one where he goes on about how his child understood some of the logic behind the zeitgeist theory and how his child didn’t like money?
It’s still not outright saying what they say in the scientology orientation video which is “Scientology changed by life” and that’s it.
“hold up orientation guides either since it’s a ebook.”
It’s a matter of how accurate the information contained in the ebook. For example, the bible is not completely wrong. Some of the phrases encourage people to love each other, yet the contradiction that religious people can’t recognise is that in other parts the bible says to go kill people.
“I don’t focus on Scientology propaganda.”
That’s not taking an objective point of view. I once had the scientology dvd that they were giving out. And the human rights advertisements use simple to understand truths in order to induce people into joining scientology.
You should note how that video was used, I’m pretty sure they cut out all the references to scientology websites at the end. Focus on what’s being commnicated by anyone and see how much it holds up to the real world.
“I’ve seen Zeitards tell critics to tho.”
God damn it, that contradicts the goal completely, I shake my head at those who have done that.
“Encourage more critical thinking.”
Establish good ways that encourage people to do critical thinking, that’s the worst nightmare for cults and religions. I hope you do that.
“Damn I guess Global Redesign Institute will be a waste of time.”
Not a total waste of time, it’s important to remember that it’s the ideas that we promote intends to break the currently established social values. Including valuing the idea of intellectual property or copyright. What’s great about youtube for example is the fact that you have so many people making user made content, and it’s more entertaining sometimes than pirated content.
“I wouldn’t feel happy feeling like I stole something, I don’t feel a value shift.”
I feel happy stealing stuff from the internet all the time, in fact I steal things and put them back onto the internet for people too.
“There’s hasn’t been another Great Depression tho.”
The great depression was a term that described the economic crash, the public can still be depressed without it being declared as a ression or depression.
“But I’ve been told in RBE, everyone will be living like Bill Gates, Jacque Fresco said that, I think.”
what’s the point in owning something that is totally beyond your requirements? there’s a difference between having a good or high standard of living and owning what goes beyond what you need to live.
“I still think he kisses Karl Marx.”
I doubt that, but I don’t really care anyway.
“I consider them reminders of what you need or want to buy.”
When it’s repeated over and over again it’s telling me that they just want me to buy it for the sake of them making profits. Have you ever heard of a corporation called “AMWAY”?
“I value individuality, I buy what I want and need that makes me happy.”
You are not what you own.
“Or people living on their own.”
It’s sad if this social system allows people to live on their own if we are in fact social creatures.
“I hope you got rid of that stuff by donating to the Salvation Army or even sell that stuff if you’re struggling with bills, doing stuff like that can prevent hoarding and help those who can’t afford to get a lot of stuff for their own families.”
That sounds like band-aid work, despertate attempts to make it seem like this social system is commpassionate.
“Parents buy toys and games for their children all the time, but the children can watch another commercial of a new toy or game and want that, not just any new toy or game commercial, a toy or game commercial that they like because it’s something they want. Then you have a pile of toys that the children stopped using all the sudden because they grow up, I’m guessing that’s who you mean by “minor”. But anyways, playing with the same toys for your whole childhood sounds like torture to me, people are just naturally tired of having the same stuff.”
To want something is conditioned, I found out eventually that my want (as in wanting to own items) was actually false. People may want to use things, but the idea of owning items isn’t real.
“playing with the same toys for your whole childhood” That’s true. At the library there’s in interesting system that emerged call the toy library. Children will borrow toys instead of buying them and then when they time period is up they get returned. That’s the idea behind the RBE. Instead of the massive duplication that toy stores have now trying to push kids into owning toys.
“people are just naturally tired of having the same stuff” That’s exactly the reason why an effective library system needs to be established.
“It must be more important to you since you like playing around with his name so much.”
Well no it isn’t, that’s why I deliberately stuff up Jeteque Joespheco’s name all the time. To me it seems important to you because you don’t want to think of him as another member of Anonymous.
“Like how you said you find rude humour not funny and tell me I should drink and drive, and telling me you were joking about it doesn’t help.”
Sorry about that then, I’m not perfect.
“Well there was one time someone, a critic, posted a long ass post on a Pro-TZM site before and the post supposedly went to spam, so if there is anything I missed, you have to let me know, or else, I feel like I’m not doing a good job being a critic.”
Righty o, I only cover what I think is most important 28min left.
“But you linked me a Tom Cruise interview after saying no one from Scientology will give an interview, wait, you said current leader, damn. Well time will tell, as you say, who knows, maybe Peter Joseph Merola will stop giving interviews and try to hide out in a different country with his dual citizenship after telling people in interviews there’s no where to hide when promoting a Resource-Based Economy or RBEM when he goes hiding. But anyways, they are similar [cults] when a Zeitard yells troll and a Scientologists yells suppressive person. Also, they both think they are scientific and load the language, Scientology is not the study of Science pffffffffft.”
If he believes what he says that “there’s no where to hide” the only reason he might hide is because he might personally get sick of going inerviews. He’s done more than the leader of scientology, plus the inerview with tom cruise that scientology did was not meant to be ever released onto the internet, that’s why I referenced that interview.
I still agree when people are simply yelling labels at each other it doesn’t progress conversation.
“Bullshit or else we wouldn’t be communicating.”
The internet has allowed this gateway, commonly I see people being completely indifferent towards each other in the public. The internet is so important since it goes around the common indifference the culture has to itself.
“No when I watch the news, I get that, weather, local events, traffic updates, celebrity shit, etc.”
I get the “celebrity shit” too, it means nothing to me, and it’s like saying “ha ha! look we’re famous and you’re not!” kind of crap but yeah I get the pointless money report as if it’s something important.
“Fine don’t barter, be anti-social and keep telling me we live in an anti-social system when you force yourself to be anti-social.”
Barter is anti-social because it’s not sharing. The idea that trade is a good idea basically makes the culture antisocial.
“You enjoy not helping people ? That’s fucked up.”
I enjoy not helping this system, promoting open-source is bad for business. Commnicating with you for no money is bad for business.
“I think anyone can be in debt, well maybe not the rich, but thru labor, which is valued in the monetary system, you can get out of debt from the loan you applied for by working more.”
It’s a trap. You always have to work more because the interest payments can never be covered.
“I bet people are getting money from their tax refunds.”
The tax refunds don’t make up the whole supply of money. Plus where did the tax refund money come from? That’s right you had to pay tax then they return some of it to you, meaning that money still has debt attached to it somewhere in the system
It may not be your debt, but someone’s in debt for you to have money.
“they tell you, you can’t smoke.”
This is why I don’t like it when people give throw-away lines such as – it’s their choice.
I’ve saved the rest of this post, I’ll have to respond to it later out of time!
@ James Kush “lol zeintology”
James you brought NOTHING to the conversation. I bet you were not laughing when you said “lol”. I pity you.
“That’s what prayer is about, you pray for God’s mercy.”
I think people pray for others too.
“This creates what peter fresco calls “psychosocial stress” which means the stress of feeling looked down on by other members of society apparently creates a range of health problems in society.”
Then they work hard and move up if they don’t want that psychosocial stress.
“It’s still not outright saying what they say in the scientology orientation video which is “Scientology changed by life” and that’s it.”
Actually he says Zeientology changed his life in that video.
“You should note how that video was used, I’m pretty sure they cut out all the references to scientology websites at the end.”
Like how Peter Joseph Merola plans to make short videos without Zeitgeist on them.
“Focus on what’s being commnicated by anyone and see how much it holds up to the real world.”
This will help the critical thinking perspective to avoid cults, I agree.
“When it’s repeated over and over again it’s telling me that they just want me to buy it for the sake of them making profits.”
That’s what businesses have to do to get customers or else they wouldn’t have a business.
“You are not what you own.”
What I buy shows my interests, therefore expresses me.
“That sounds like band-aid work”
That’s compassionate.
“At the library there’s in interesting system that emerged call the toy library. Children will borrow toys instead of buying them and then when they time period is up they get returned.”
People usually don’t like renting games giving them a time period to play it before they have to return it even in the monetary system, for an example, if they like it, they’ll want to buy it which usually happens, if they don’t, then they’ll return it being smart renting to see if they would like it, so with kids wanting to borrow toys when they are eventually going to have to bring the toys back when they are not ready to bring them back will still make parents want to buy the toys from elsewhere for their children to make them happy and not depressed. To expect every child to be happy with the same time period to only borrow toys when children can show different interest levels in toys isn’t realistic. There are no such thing as blank slates. Altho I think sharing is great, other children may not want to share because of really liking something. This could be applied to books or anything else from the library as well or anything really if everything is like a library in a RBE. When you own something, you can take your time enjoying what you bought, when you borrow, you rush and not really enjoy at all. Yeah someone can get bored with something and go on to something else, but whatever that person got bored with can easily be interested in that thing again with easy access without having to go to the library again hoping whatever thing they played with before is there and ready for them to borrow when they want it. I don’t think this could be done when people borrowing things for an unlimited amount of time even [without resorting to owning toys] while other children that do show up to the library show up to go to in an empty toy room making them unhappy, so even tho you disagree with mass duplication of toys metaphorically speaking or not, I see why it’s done.
“To me it seems important to you because you don’t want to think of him as another member of Anonymous.”
Well Peter Joseph Merola doesn’t care what people call him, so you don’t have to care about what he goes by.
“If he believes what he says that “there’s no where to hide” the only reason he might hide is because he might personally get sick of going inerviews.”
He says that usually, but then goes and do more interviews and lectures, I guess to try to prove to me that TZM is alive, but if he goes hiding, I doubt it’ll be because he’s “sick” of getting attention, as much as he says he doesn’t like “cult of personality”, I think he does.
“If they don’t offer warranties, I’m not buying.”
Even if you get a warrantee intrinsic or planned obsolesce is built into every product. Corporations want you to keep buying the same items over and over to increase profits at the cost of wasting resources.
Plus it’s good business to have intrinsic or planned obsolesce because then it’s cheap to make the product. Even the best products would have intrinsic or planned obsolesce because those corporations charging the most would still want constant turnover.
“I thought you didn’t advocate chaos.”
Punishing a person for doing violence is violence. It’s a paradox where the authority’s violence against you is okay, but a person suddenly becoming violent and committing murder is not okay. When a police officer does gun down a criminal that police officer is not labeled a murderer.
“I lol’d.” I bet you didn’t.
But it’s true that the police only try to determine who did a crime not to help them but to put them under more stress.
“Or hospitalized if they plead insanity, it depends, some assholes bullshit.”
Plead insanity? So someone who commits an act like murder isn’t insane? That’s like saying murder isn’t insane in some cases.
“Murder’s a crime, so they’re criminals.”
Labelling people “criminal” does not help. You could label me a “criminal” considering how much piracy I’ve engaged in. Breaking piracy law or murder law is breaking the law, by that logic I’m a criminal. Are you going to drag me to jail for stealing media?
It doesn’t solve the problem to label someone a criminal and just throw them into jail. It does not deal with the reason people commit murders. The reason people commit murder is irrelevant, we assume some people are just evil or “assholes” and ignore the stressful social atmosphere that makes people act in certain ways.
“Only in a society without laws.”
Again, the only way the law is real is through force. You might like to be forced to do what you don’t want to do but I don’t.
“Your check is going to bounce.”
It’s a world of faith towards paper documents being real. We’re told what to do by bits of paper, it’s amazing.
“They won’t hire people that they think have unacceptable behaviour.”
Of course, we ignore the problem when we don’t know the reason why people act in certain ways. It’s conform or comply or get out of my office!
“Do you have an problem with authority Mr. Anderson? Do you think you’re special like somehow the rules do not apply to you? Obviously you’re mistaken” -The Matrix
“Make your profile private.”
Don’t have one at all.
“If cops finally caught a murderer, that solves the problem because that murderer isn’t murdering anyone else now. That tells me cops care about people. They also try to figure out why people commit crimes or else they wouldn’t have forensic psychiatrists.”
As far as I can tell, people still commit the same immoral actions over and over again because was isn’t addressed is the environment in which the people grew up and lived.
Our current culture is deemed as great, therefore there must be nothing wrong with where people live, there’s a problem with the people instead.
It’s why do the certain environmental situations trigger people to do certain things? The connection between the environment and the people is ignored because people think their actions are completely independent of what kind of social environment they live in.
“Their risking their jobs then on the cases of false imprisonment.”
false imprisonment is not impossible.
“In the beginning of the shows you’re talking about, they usually start off by saying why they wanted to be a cop and they don’t say because they want to enforce the law because they want to be power junkies, I’m happy to know that VTV isn’t a cop, but are there cops like that ? Hopefully not a lot of them, but again, they risk their jobs.”
The reason why people become police officers I suggest is because people have a sense of justice and they want to be superheros, and go out into the public and enforce good through violence. You can’t use a gun for good, ever.
From what I’ve seen of riot police, yes there are cops out there and they think it’s right to enforce the law through violence. Of course they’ve been lied to, that’s not the path to happiness.
“It’s better than getting arrested, see, if cops wanted to just arrest people and saw everyone as a criminal, they would, but I think you proved they don’t.”
The way the powers that be stay in power is through fear. Fear is a powerful device. The police want to be feared by the public, they don’t necessarily want to arresst everyone for breaking the law, yet at the same time it seems the motto of the police is that “no one escapes the law or judgement”
“All that time I thought they were serving and protecting us.”
You don’t protect people with use of fear and guns. The police don’t work for the people, they work for the political establishment. The common people don’t write the laws, the political establishment does. And they write laws as they see fit for the public.
They believe the public needs to be managed or controlled through intimidation. Of course people get sick of this intimidation through the use of laws, yet you’re not allowed to individually say you don’t like the current social arrangement because we don’t live in any kind of fair society.
“Ask Jared Lee Loughner’s best friend.”
The opinion of Jared Lee Loughner’s best friend is irrelevant. What proof is there that “zeitgeist: the movie” turns people into murderers?
Opinion (noun)
1. A personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty
“my opinion differs from yours”
“they might yell harassment.”
It depends how touchy a person is. If you’re not harassing someone I’m dobutful someone would yell harassment. If you want to, give him a link to this thread on this blog so he can read the whole thing if he wants.
“could be seen as a dictator”
Well there’s a difference between him being seen as a dictator and him actually being one. For him to be a supreme commander and chief and need to prove that his words are law in the zeitgiest movement. Yet I advocate the RBE and open-source completely independently of the commands that he is supposedly giving.
I hope TZM thinks scientific findings are the law and not Peter Fresco’s words.
“The same could be said about surveillance too.”
surveillance can’t see you all the time, it’s an act of intimidation again, trying to control your actions through fear. And it happens to work for a lot of people. That’s why most people don’t want to act out for the purpose of changing the society. Because you might be deemed a traitor for your country’s social values. I certainly am.
Anymore concerns about TZM?
“Even if you get a warrantee intrinsic or planned obsolesce is built into every product.”
Every product isn’t a printer.
“Even the best products”
There’s no such thing as the “best products”.
“When a police officer does gun down a criminal that police officer is not labeled a murderer.”
I think cops usually do their best to get the criminal in cuffs without using guns and only use guns if a gun is pointed at them, I wouldn’t call someone a murderer if that person is in that type of situation.
“I bet you didn’t.”
I thought people solved crimes to help the community, not because “it damages the flow of money around the marketplace.”
“Plead Insanity?”
A person off his meds.
“Labelling people “criminal” does not help.”
I should have used that word instead of asshole.
“It doesn’t solve the problem to label someone a criminal and just throw them into jail.”
Murder I think it does, again, it prevents more people from being murdered, piracy, you’ll probably just get a fine, it still doesn’t make stealing fine, again, I don’t feel a value shift.
“Again, the only way the law is real is through force.”
You mean it’s only real to people when they are caught breaking the law.
“We’re told what to do by bits of paper, it’s amazing.”
It’s called incentive.
“Of course, we ignore the problem when we don’t know the reason why people act in certain ways.”
Or the employer might ask you to come in and ask questions about whatever he or she found. Employers always ask tough questions before you finally get that job.
“Don’t have one at all.”
You must lack a lot of love.
“As far as I can tell, people still commit the same immoral actions over and over again because was isn’t addressed is the environment in which the people grew up and lived.”
It may seem that way probably because you can find all kinds of criminals in all kinds of environments.
“From what I’ve seen of riot police, yes there are cops out there and they think it’s right to enforce the law through violence.”
I usually see shields first.
“What proof is there that “zeitgeist: the movie” turns people into murderers?”
Okay you win, everyone who kisses the “zeitgeist: the movie” becomes more rational and objective.
“It depends how touchy a person is.”
A lot of people for TZM are touchy.
“If you want to”
I think you can create a youtube account and copy and paste that part to him.
“For him to be a supreme commander and chief and need to prove that his words are law in the zeitgiest movement.”
Apparently he can banish anyone just by saying so, but still, Zeitards tell me he’s not the leader.
“surveillance can’t see you all the time, it’s an act of intimidation again”
Oh I thought it helped solved crimes, got me there.
Before I give my next response, I recently came across a good example of people desperately trying to use copyright law to control people.
“Every product isn’t a printer.”
Many of the products I’ve bought to make a computer work have broken over and over again. CDs that I have, have outlasted hard-drives for example. Is it poor design? Is it planned to break? Is it a combination of both? Either way, I have to go to the shop and buy the damn products again, increasing profits for the people who make products.
In other words as peter fresco has said before, if you made products to last that would be a disaster for the market because of the way the market works.
“There’s no such thing as the “best products”.”
When I said “best products” I meant best at the time, or as we’re told that they’re the best at the time.
“I think cops usually do their best to get the criminal in cuffs without using guns and only use guns if a gun is pointed at them, I wouldn’t call someone a murderer if that person is in that type of situation.”
You have to define “murder”.
“I thought people solved crimes to help the community, not because “it damages the flow of money around the marketplace.””
How does it help the community? The social atmosphere of competiton does not change. A black market is going to exist for example because the market allows for it.
I’ve been told in Japan for example that because the law isn’t as strict in Japan, on the top floor of some buildings you have extremely immoral pornography sold. Why is it sold? The mentaility of the public is sick, and there’s a market for it.
The question is, does murder damage the flow of money around the market? For the money-market system to exist you need money to flow around it like blood around the body. If a person is dead they can’t spend money.
“A person off his meds.”
What do you mean? People need medication to be normal? If this social system was naturally healthy people wouldn’t need medication to be healthy in (terms of mental health).
Commonly the social atmosphere is indifferent to the health and well being of people. The public is indifferent to itself. How would that affect the mental health of a person?
“I should have used that word instead of asshole.”
To me the labels attempt to get away from calling a person a human being.
“Murder I think it does, again, it prevents more people from being murdered, piracy, you’ll probably just get a fine, it still doesn’t make stealing fine, again, I don’t feel a value shift.”
It prevents more people from being murdered? If you don’t address the reason as to way people become murderers then to keep locking them up is a form of insanity. Because you keep thinking you’ve solved the problem.
Doesn’t make stealing fine? Then why are you on the internet? By the perspective of corporations they don’t like it when there’s such a medium allowing people to obtain copyrighted content for free.
“You mean it’s only real to people when they are caught breaking the law.”
Exactly, since I haven’t been caught for my piracy actions it’s like the law doesn’t even exist.
“It’s called incentive.”
It’s called obedience
“Or the employer might ask you to come in and ask questions about whatever he or she found. Employers always ask tough questions before you finally get that job.”
That sounds like a private dictatorship to me. You need to fit into that cookie cutter slot to work for that business. In other words you can’t be you, you’ve gotta be the person who they want you to be.
“You must lack a lot of love.”
The only way I can answer that is to attempt to take a measurement of the love present throughout the society. Oh that’s right we’re concerned with the stocks, trades, investments, the health of money.
“It may seem that way probably because you can find all kinds of criminals in all kinds of environments.”
If those environments are producing unwanted behaviour the aim should be to remove environments that incude all the different kinds of stress that can be inflicted upon people.
“I usually see shields first.”
You see shields first yes, but of course this is conspiratorial, I’ve heard riot police plan to move or push people away from an area under no grounds of the protestors being violent.
simply because the people “won’t move”. what riot police don’t understand is the reason why protestors “don’t move” is because they’re unhappy with the social situation.
Yet according to whoever is controlling the police, the people aren’t allowed to express that unhappiness with pshysical presence. That is why you need a massive amount of numbers for people to express their unhappiness of the social operation for the voice of the people to be heard.
“Okay you win, everyone who kisses the “zeitgeist: the movie” becomes more rational and objective.”
I can’t prove everything in “Zeitgeist: the movie” but there is truth in it. The statement that really stuck with me was “you’ve gotta say “I’m a human being god damn it, my life has value!”"
“A lot of people for TZM are touchy.”
Then they need to develop thick skin. Being touchy shows you belief system is fraglie.
“I think you can create a youtube account and copy and paste that part to him.”
I’m pretty sure I was told that you need a mobile phone to make a youtube account.
“Apparently he can banish anyone just by saying so, but still, Zeitards tell me he’s not the leader.”
Banish anyone? Well banhish them how? If the train of thought is valid how does banishing them prevent them from advocating the train of thought?
Peter Fresco did a terrible job trying to prevent me from putting up posters that advocated open-source.
“Oh I thought it helped solved crimes, got me there.”
The police don’t ask why people act the way they do, their view is using intimidation and force is how you manage human behaviour.
I walked past a camera recently, and when I went out of its view, it quickly moved so it could continue looking at me. Shocked the life out of me, cause I didn’t expect it!
Anymore concerns about TZM?
OKAY WE REACHED OVER 150 COMMENTS. LETS GO OVER EVERYTHING:
http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2283
Anonymous supports a RBE ?
You tell me:
Also it looks like Operation Ghostbusters will continue, 2.0:
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2315
“Did you hear the 11/16/2011 TZM global blogtalkradio broadcast?”
I listen to all his shows from the beginning of 2011, I think 4 from 2010 also, and I’m waiting for his last show where he exposes me and others as paid agents.
“Peter Joseph basically says if you look at him as a prophet and want to follow him, then we’re “fucking doomed”.
TZM was doomed from the very beginning.
“He says he gets emails from people asking him what they should do, and to me it sounds like he throws his hands up in the air at that question.”
When he gets emails, I’m sure he does his best to give everyone advice, at least to the ones who are completely clueless and what to do in order support a RBE or RBEM. as I said, I think he really does like the “cult of personality”.
“So then if Peter Joseph himself proclaims he doesn’t want followers, who is leading the zeitgeist cult?”
He contradicts himself then, because I remember watching the WHO IS PETER JOSEPH him saying he wants to keep collecting people.
“Does Ben McLeish actually need to be your target?”
I have nothing to say about those who truly want a better world, rather they are in TZM or not and aren’t Zeitards like the people I come across.
“I remember you insulting the zeitgeist cult for censoring material then you do the same.”
If a critic, more likely a Zeitard posing as a critic saying violent things, it wouldn’t be allowed either:
http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/forum/582/zeitgeisters-infiltrating-dissenting-places-with-violence
“If you think the cult isn’t allowed to promote the RBE idea because of the breakup between TZM and TVP, then how are you going to stop the cult members from promoting it and ensure only TVP can promote it?”
I don’t care, I’ll leave that for the Venusians to figure it out. They can say RBE and Zeitards can say RBEM, but with the Zeitgeist Movement, they load the language more because they think they actually have a model when they don’t where it can be assumed with the Venus Project, that they have one, which I don’t think they have one either.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2324
“If it’s only about obtaining profits from the film series how come they’re all proudly put only and encouraged for FREE distribution.”
To advertise better and get people to come to his shitty Zeitgeist Media Festival event where he tried to get more money like how artists do with their music and get them to come see them on tour.
“Is there a way to find out if members fear peter?”
Ask Matthew Wagner.
“If the zeitgeist movement is completely about making money then how come they advocate the RBE idea?”
I understand their paradox, they need money to get out of the monetary system to get in a RBE, but if there’s no transparency and all they want to do is make films, then that proves to me they are delusional.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2326
“Do think the statement is true; “Sometimes there’s nothing at all that can explain a killer’s actions”.
That’s something I expect a cop to say 100 years ago.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2342
“the idea is done for because YOU say it’s done for.”
The Alexa ratings will disagree with you.
“I doubt the zeitgeist cult is based around making money for their apparent leader Peter Joseph.”
I think he thought he would be able to originally, then he told Joe Rogan he’s working for Wall Street again, I lol’d.
“They also steal the line “We’re mad as hell and we’re not going to take this anymore.”
Quoting people isn’t stealing.
“There’s another video on youtube somewhere where zeit-cult members have a dvd spindle of moving forward and they’re giving them out for free.”
But then have next them, a donation box, like Cliff, or whoever that Zeitard is.
“So I have to ask this question, why isn’t the cult trying to pull the zeitgeist films off the internet like scientology when they tried to censor that tom cruise video?”
There was that interview where VTV interviews Douglas Mallette at the last 30 minutes [extra after the show was over] that was uploaded exposing Douglas Mallette wanting to annihilate people, they successfully took that down, if VTV is involved, it goes down lol. Wait, I almost forgot, I told Kush to reupload it and the Swedish press made sure to spread that around. Those guys thought the last 30 minutes probably wasn’t even archived on blogtalkradio I bet.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2357
“Can’t watch these now because I don’t have the internet at home like a rich-fag.”
As we went over, many people can go on the internet in different places, just because they are online doesn’t mean they are at home and are “rich-fags”.
“The RBE idea is still in development by many people.”
Then when it comes to solving the world’s problems, then Jacque Fresco and Peter Joseph Merola should just say “I don’t know”.
“Don’t have the proof here but peter apparently said to people to wait for him to upload the official version to youtube and then someone uploaded to youtube a dud version.”
No one has proved to me there was any difference between they two, and it doesn’t matter, the film would have been mirrored anyways.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2376
“This picture only promotes the RBE idea not it’s workings.”
Because no one makes the decisions and they are arrived at, whatever that means.
“If TZM is a obvious scam intelligent people should instantly be able to sniff it out, Assuming not everyone is an idiot.”
People can be induced by it when TZM says non-violent offenders go to prison as long as murderers do, say cancer is increasing globally, debt is bad, war, poverty, etc. Anyone can get suckered into it.
“Why not engineer attractive information about the RBE idea to move people away from TZM? The RBE movement.”
If you really want to change values for the better, lead by example.
“Scientology as idiotic as it is, the public allowed it to form and is still allowed to exist by us.”
Everyone is allowed to practice whatever religion they want, that’s why it’s allowed, if the cult members can’t handle criticism, then they should leave the cult.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2377
“In the strawman theory it postulates that the name you see on any letter is a form of moral fraud”
I think letters are in CAPS because, as that link says, to make sure that names are read correctly, for an example, I and l can look the same, but not I and L.
“they’re hypocritical? isn’t everyone? I know I am.”
Admitting that you’re hypocritical and showing you’re willing to change to avoid being hypocritical is a person better than the person that is hypocritical and it’s pointed out to them and don’t do jack shit about it but call you a troll.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2378
“He simply says society and you should be in a constant reorientation to reduce perceived negative actions, stealing and murder.”
I think we are already, I think you should watch Steven Pinker’s video called “A brief history of violence”.
“A calculator still proves 1+1=2, or would a scientist just say it’s self-evident that 1+1=2? The idea of “self-evident” is rubbish.”
I hope you don’t support or in Desteni.
“I can’t really address “worships magical robots” because to worship magical robots would be like praying to your computer instead of actually using your keyboard to type.”
It’s more like imaginary magical robots, which is why TZM can be seen as a religion.
“In the end though peter’s ego becomes irrelevant”
It isn’t, see, if you want to find out why cults form, you have to look at the cult leader and potential cult leaders show that they suffer from narcissistic personality disorder.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2394
“Talking about anything is believing I believe.”
I think there’s a difference between lip service and actually explaining how you can do a RBE test city.
“Talking is not a form of observation and testing at all. The reason they don’t want to do a test city is because they proclaim they want it to be a “global system” not a country.”
That’s not scientific.
“I don’t oppose the idea of a RBE considering I’m locked out of doing a lot because I have little money”
You should have enough money to make a copy of a key to the house you live with your parents in.
“False hope? Is it better to have no hope? is complete apathy better?”
You’re assuming everyone on this planet is apathetic.
“if you establish that what’s next? assassinate him?”
You’re assuming everyone that goes by people’s names want to assassinate them, people don’t murder people because of names.
“What do you do from here after you establish him as the leader of TZM?”
Celebrate and hope that people for TZM do as well:
“watch me burn myself.”
You don’t have to if you’re Anonymous, I feel sorry those who want to burn themselves because of the names their parents gave them.
“At this time the money system whatever name you want to call it fails to provide my requirements.”
It fails because you don’t want the monetary system to meet your requirements by moving out and not having to live with your dad, or stepdad and get a job that you know you would love doing.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2415
“I could put up a RBE poster somewhere random and someone could perceive it as shoving religion down someone’s throat or promoting rbe.”
I would only perceive that if your poster was covering someone elses. That’s rude.
“Recently I checked out some atheist billboards on youtube and the response from religious people was that they didn’t like atheists telling the religious that they did not have faith.”
People don’t like what they disagree with, or else they are hypocrites.
“if you want to know how the mind of a TZM works you should want to talk to me.”
The minds of TZM and TVP are confusing, they tell you “love” is a bullshit word but always use “love” to promote themselves.
“What?”
Strawman fallacy I meant.
“What’s wrong with doing research? Again?”
Nothing’s wrong with it, it would help tho if they told me what to exactly to watch, then I’ll do it, I’ve done this before.
“I think the movies ARE the movement when did I say they were not?”
We agree on something.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2456
“You also have to classify any form of violence, some might classify insults as violence.”
Someone that’s verbally expressing physical harm to someone, I haven’t seen a critic say this to a Zeitard.
“I can’t make youtube videos, you need a mobile phone to make an account.”
No you don’t.
“The quote from Fresco is a statement that you apparently believe in since you’re mentioning it, saying take it up with fresco avoids the contradiction”
It’s not a contradiction if you say it, to know nothing, means that organization is dead, metaphorically, I’m just using your logic against you with his words.
“I don’t listen to V-radio”
That’s great.
“I’m not concerned with his weight.”
He should be.
“Do you think TZM will listen to anything Fresco has to say regarding not allowing them to advocate the RBE idea?”
Obviously they do or else they wouldn’t have coined a RBE to a RBEM.
“Do you think TZM would not establish a new leader?”
So you’re saying there is a leader.
“I know scientology established a new leader after it’s founder died.”
The one with clout in TZM would be VTV, yeah, then it will definitely be a cult, no longer benign, for sure.
“In a sense the movies are the movement I agree, there are many videos that represent TZM not just peter’s movies though.”
Well of course, he encourages people to create why they advocate cult videos, that campaign is dead tho.
“That’s why there’s a TZM youtube channel!”
Where his video starting that campaign disappeared from, and the Zeitgeist movie channel too.
“Am I allowed to like the idea Dad?”
That’s what you said to make me think you had daddy issues of some kind.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2476
“For example, I don’t take orders from peter or any other TZM members”
Coordinators have to and pretend they don’t, when defending their cult ideology when it comes to critics, or trolls they say.
“I suggest that they’re the activist arm of the venus project even if the venus project doesn’t want TZM to advocate them anymore.”
That’s like stalking someone that broke up with you.
“Time will tell if technological unemployment is real or not. (In theory) the more technological progress happens the more human labour is not needed.”
More different type of labor would be needed unless you think really machine can make machines that operate machines.
“zeitgeist suggests that the money economy is based on the management of money and not the management of resources.”
I think any economy is based on resources as along as it takes into account, supply and demand.
“To me it’s relevant because it’s about a kid who tries to build a loving culture on top of the blood of the evil.”
I would have been really scared if I saw a list of the 1,000 people that people for TZM wanted to kill and saw that Zeitards thought they had magical power to list people and make them die. I was listed on the facebook blacklist and I’m still alive, I know Scientologists list people too.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2490
“If TZM promoted nothing how can TZM have critics?”
By worrying about the people delusional thinking they are still the activst arm of the Venus Project, I can still share concerns about what they offer still, which is still the same thing TZM talks about.
“So if you don’t take in anymore information your beliefs cannot be influenced?”
I can continue to agree that some things are screwed up, but that’s about it.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2493
“TZM is dead only if it has ZERO support”
TZM is dead because it doesn’t have the Venus Project support anymore. Also I don’t speak Esperanto, I lol when I see Zeitards, some of them, try to promote this to the Venus Project as a way to talk to people globally and even he [Jacque Fresco] rejects that like he rejects TZM.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2501
“If I called you dead would you be dead?”
I’m not an organization.
“It must be a ghost typing on this keyboard.”
I think I know who I need to call.
“I enjoy being wrong because I am evil”
That’s probably why I thought you were becoming bipolar, I don’t know anyone who would ask if they are lying or not. Maybe you should continue to stay home until you’re better.
“Realworldistan” is not a word.”
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Realworldistan
Um whoa.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2512
“You must fight fire with fire.”
I didn’t know critics burned themselves.
“The reason why I spread hate is because when I was little on one of my single digit birthdays I wished for no one to exist besides myself.”
That’s crazy. I think this has some truth to it.
“Mario Brotha thanked me for continuing conversations no matter how irrational.”
Yes I have.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2520
“You think I’ll seek “psychiatric help” when I like the way I am now? lol.”
He wasn’t predicting, he was asking you to seek it.
“zeit-fag”
I thought you said that.
“Calling me names will only encourage me to act as awful as you say TZM members are. you reap what you sow.”
That sounds like a threat.
“You create monsters if you act monstrous towards people and I am now a proud monster all thanks to you”
Being a monster is nothing to be proud about.
“Why don’t you gain enough skill to deal psychiatric help?”
Then do that.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2531
“How do you know taking pills solve problems?”
You’re saying that as if all medicine is placebo.
“Laughner”?
I don’t know who started on purpose spelling things wrong, but I haven’t felt like a grammar Nazi lately, yet, I never felt like a Nazi.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2535
“Even if you’re all working separately the fact is the efforts combine into a force or a group of zeitgeist critics.”
Which is why this site is a threat, I guess, there’s more authors, now, not when Peter Joseph Merola said we were working together when he said we were paid agents.
“Scientology’s brainwashing techniques, internet censorship techniques, forcing you to cough up money and all the rest of it.”
Which is why I will always see them as similar to each other.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2540
“If his advice is appreciated then he will become leader of Occupy Venice. Peter Joseph is God!”
That didn’t happen as I already explained why.
“Imagine for example if Scientology was actually defeated somehow by anonymous, would there be a need for a campaign against Scientology after it had died?”
I wouldn’t call this site a campaign, but critics will still talk shit still so that others can stay away from cults or organizations that might be one.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2544
“Are you happy you’ve won?”
We all win as more people leave cults.
“If you say so, Jason lord is Jesus!”
I said that’s “probably” how you or people for TZM see him.
“To drown in insults doesn’t progress conversation.”
I’m not drowning in this conversation.
“what about if I said you should not do any research and blast completely unresearched information as truth?”
You’re still assuming I didn’t review anything from TZM if it’s “unresearched information”.
“To zeit-tards it’s a good thing if you care.”
But I do too.
“If we don’t create each other how is it possible for us to communicate?”
Because we’re already created, or else we wouldn’t be communicating.
“I’m using words that you know so we can communicate that’s a creation through the ability to interact.”
Unless we spoke before, I don’t think I even influenced you.
“I mean you’ve confirmed that all zeit-tards pray to peter”
Metaphorically.
“I could say a statement that I think is true yet how would you know if it’s still a lie.”
If you lie, depending on the lies that came from you, you make TZM look bad, you hurt them, that’s not love.
“Check out Peter Popoff’s Miracle spring water, the gullibility of desperate humans is incredible and should be recognised.”
http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2347
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2546
“The copy of “zeitgeist the movie” I have doesn’t mention “PJM” at all.”
I didn’t magically produce and direct itself.
“If you’re interested in what I really think God looks like”
This isn’t infinity, this is circular, like the Venus Project cities. This is why I thought you were lying.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2563
“There is no shred of sanity left in me”
I thought there was truth to that.
“All TZM members don’t do anything so they can’t be threatening”
They are even too lazy to save money to be self sufficient.
“I visit the centre of black holes often”
I read that and wonder what you meant metaphorically, you already assume people who do people’s nails are immigrants.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2579
“Rich-fag is a throw-away line.”
As everything else that makes you look retarded.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2584
“I lol’d.”
But when I say “collapse porn”, you don’t. I’m jealous of Kush.
“The main point or question I want you to ask yourself is do you think he’ll be succeed in achieving his goal of creating a loving society on the blood of the evil?”
No.
“If that is TZM’s goal as some zeitgeist critics suggest, do you see ARMIES of zeit-tards walking down the streets killing off non-zeit-tards like the dark ages?”
If TZM got that much power and was taken seriously, it could, I mean, you’re telling people there is no such thing as property and Zeitards would ask for those people’s resources, I don’t expect them to just give up their resources, shit could get bad.
“Or people wearing peter fresco t-shirts”
Time will tell. Buying the same T-SHIRTS I think even he [Peter Joseph Merola] realizes doesn’t help make him more money.
“middle class” from my perspective the middle class are still rich-fags that’s just my view considering my social class.”
Since you make it your choice to live with your parents, it sounds more of a luxury, which makes you a part of the middle class.
“I know when I think I’m lying and I think I’m telling the truth”
People still slip up even then.
“I try not to be egotistical and think I know everything.”
Me too.
“I haven’t said this before but what seems to be propagated is the idea that “zeitgeist the movie” made “Jared Lee Loughner” into a killer.”
I wouldn’t deny it as a factor, also, I did find that video called Happy New Fear, false alarm, I corrected myself.
“Well if that is the case point out the parts of “zeitgeist the movie” that would turn someone into a killer!”
Irrational films make people irrational.
“I’ve seen horror movies like saw and worse (which I regret seeing” and they didn’t turn me into a killer”
Because that’s fiction, the thing is, people think Zeitgeist: The Movie is non-fiction.
“You need to pay for everything, to me the price tags on everything are prison bars.”
I didn’t know prisoners, once sentenced, can easily pay to get out.
“There’s no such thing as random, everything is connected.”
You went completely off topic when you asked why you were being censored for your violent comments, lets see if we can get back on topic:
http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2865
“Peter Fresco” that’s a joke christ!”
I’m not christ.
“Holy shit! you’re passing my own logic back to me, that’s great I’m proud.”
Be proud of that instead.
“The rich are victims too.”
More money, more problems.
“Assessing the situation properly and coming up with a soultion that makes everyone happy is best”
What’s best for someone may not be best for someone else, we’re not blank slates, everything being like a library I don’t think will work.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2613
“because it was the public that allowed a person to become so mentally sick that they became that way.”
I think people allow Zeitgeist films to be online because people are against censorship and are for freedom of speech and religion.
“yet the concern might be to how far that competitiveness is taken when we say enough is enough”
It’s a good thing we have referees.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2638
“He’s got gloves and a helmet on so as to minimise injury”
The other person doesn’t, that referee should be fired.
“just like bull-fighting”
That shit is crazy, those type of sports actually threaten the public.
“I consider horse racing to be completely corrupt as well.”
I just disagree with killing the horse when the horse has a bad leg, bad enough to not race with of course:
Give Family Guy another chance.
“and other combat sports.”
Sports like those involving animals are illegal and harmful.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2649
“Saying “everyone feeling guilty” is retarded implies that a single person feeling guilty for someone’s negative actions is retarded.”
No it implies everyone has super hero powers.
“Why does this website exist if feeling responsible for the evil deeds TZM apparently commits is retarded?”
I don’t think history examined should disappear, it’s cult awareness.
“It’s possible for me to disagree with a video made by TZM when I’m in TZM.”
Be careful, Peter Joseph Merola might banish you, somehow, I mean, he is Peter Joseph Merola.
“Can’t you accept that some people might not be content with the current state of affairs?”
I can.
“If it was only your view that mattered then you wouldn’t bother talking to others on the internet at all.”
I’m not anti-social.
“You might not like what I’m doing regarding TZM activism”
I don’t care about posters, but when people for TZM do vandalism, make bomb threats pretending to be Obama, kill people and plan to kill more, that would be “activism” that scares me.
“if that’s so what are you going to do to stop me?”
I’ll let the police handle that stuff, since they are suppose to serve and protect us.
“All I’m saying is you’re going to have difficulty adjusting if the zeitgeist ideology holds water and you believe in an out of date social system.”
It’s not out of date, we still need prices to measure how much something is worth and incentive for people to do stuff.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2658
“they’re an asshole for being mentally sick, you’d make a caring doctor.”
If Vermin Supreme becomes president, brushing your teeth would be law and they would be criminals, well, I don’t think people would get arrested tho.
“what if they don’t have enough money to seek help, doctors cost money.”
I’m sure there are tips on how to feel better until you see a doctor after saving money for medicine and visit.
“Educate them on methods concerning how to practice what they preach.”
I’ll debate them.
“There’s no way a test city can even happen without a extreme amount of support.”
For a global RBE, not for a test city, if a test city is a success, then it’s possible to get “an extreme amount of support”.
“Impossible? That sounds more like a difficult challenge I’m up for!”
You admit to not ever talking to them, I doubt you are up for it.
“Anything I miss highlight please.”
If only you really meant that.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2668
“There’s really no love as a rule” If loving environments create loving people and insufficient environments towards human requirements creates violent people should love be “a rule” or a way of life?”
A way of life, when Jacque Fresco says that people should say “have a nice life”, that to me sounds like a final goodbye, that sounds like something rude you would say to someone that you don’t want to see again.
“The values of this culture say that you must get married have kids etc, the american dream point of view.”
I thought it was an international point of view.
“I think people will still have children in the future yet if our technology improves to such an extent to increase the life-span of people further”
The need to have children will decrease, well, Jacque Fresco said in another video that people wouldn’t want to live forever, if this technology was available, it makes you wonder if it would be accepted. It’s the same video where he says people will have an extra eye in the back of their heads.
“Children would need to be planned instead of the religious idea that having heaps of christian children without consequence is a good idea.”
I don’t think Christian couples feel forced to have children and think that if they don’t, they will go to hell.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2674
“it isn’t good business to help people for free when they want to be helped.”
Then someone needs to explain to me what the purpose of samples are.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2696
“I said if it’s possible or not”
It’s possible if they [your parents] have a grudge, buy grudges expires in families I think.
“I think that phrase is false and all people should help all people.”
When people in the monetary system try to do that, you call it “patchwork”.
“In case you’re wondering I have no employment so I do live my parents, but my dad likes the zeit-crap I come up with.”
I thought you were another voiceofracism467, where you live with your dad and your dad hate zeit-crap, but who knows, you’re probably lying about your dad loving TZM.
“This poster in particular, the one with the guys shaking hands when they look like they’re going to beat the crap out of each other with baseball bats.”
That’s debunked:
Now I know a Zeitard that like threatening critics with baseball bats, ironic.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2723
“Contradicting the idea that making money equals success.”
It’s not contradicting if success is defined by having enough money to have children.
“Parents own their children?”
I don’t advocate irresponsibility.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2737
“If it’s okay for a mom and dad to feel responsible for the well-being of a child what makes it not okay for everyone to feel responsible for the well-being of that child?”
The parents live with their children and others don’t.
“What if the person being insulted”
I should have said “A person insulted usually cuts the conversation short to avoid from being insulted even more”. People can walk away and wonder why that person was being insulting avoiding conflict.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2741
“Well no, global RBE is not in operation as of this time. ”
I hope it isn’t for the RBE advocate sake, everyone living with their parents doesn’t sound great to me.
“I’ve told both my parents is a funny manner, we are running a fucking business”
If they are asking for rent money, they would be running a business, like VTV’s trailer.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2745
“The interviewees came to the conclusion that nothing good would come of a massive war between America and China.”
They must believe in debt relief in some way.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2752
“There’s money in selling products, not money in advancing techology to such an extent that the marketplace becomes obsolete.”
From that article:
“when we’re buying supercomputers the size of sugar cubes”
People didn’t see electronics getting smaller today and they buy those.
“Worship the american flag”
The photoshop pic was hypocritical, but holy shit:
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2796
“zeitgeist proposes that the idea of just selling goods and services gets in the way of social progress though.”
Oh I thought competition brought about innovations. You might as well get off the computer.
“emergent society means “evolution of knowledge”
Where nothing scientifically can be concrete as you want it.
“It means nothing.”
I didn’t know flag designs were random.
“If you don’t believe TZM members are deliberately evil, why would you want to be evil to them?”
I don’t want to be a cult leader, but I admit, I used the words “patently evil”, I got that from John from facebook, it sounds cool.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2821
“Now I’ve seen this confusion before, people confuse the word “job” with the word “employment”.
I still don’t know the difference.
“But if we picture machines replacing the drudgery jobs that existed in medieval times, then how can we realistically picture a girl working at McDonalds in a technologically advanced society?”
In 2009, maybe late of 2008, Peter Joseph Merola’s first post ever on the forum was promoting the fact that technology was replacing people at McDonalds, it’s 2012 and people still work at McDonalds. That should probably go here:
http://skepticproject.com/articles/predictions/search/?author=Peter+Joseph
Along with all banks shutting down in 2012.
“In the 2001 a space odyssey series there’s a book called 3001 the final odyssey, I admit I haven’t even read 3001 the final odyssey but the ideas expressed in that book are relevant here.”
I don’t recommend books I haven’t read.
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http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2822
“When I say tradition I’m talking about actions that have no point at all such as prayer.”
A world where no one prays for you doesn’t seem to have a lot of love in it.
“I mentioned the bible verse that says a woman must be a virgin otherwise she should be killed.”
I wonder if crazy shit like that was said before the 10 commandments. I’m against sexism still tho.
“Rushed or not”
Okay not perfect, or else people wouldn’t be sick, partners promise to take care of each other, in their vows I think.
“If the conditions force us to work together”
They are called chapters and I think belonging chapters in one organization can work with other organizations and do.
“How come love still costs money then?”
Because it’s almost Valentine’s Day.
“(that’s wahy it was recorded proving it’s not a secret club)”
When I don’t see chapters record their own meetings, I don’t assume secret clubs, I assume TZM is dead.
“Totally agree with you there, but it’s what advertised to me all the time and I’m getting fed up to the back teeth with it.”
Sell your TV for a cell phone then.
“To me business is evil because you’re forced to tell people what is value.”
Not with price-matching.
“There would have to be a benchmark, considering if you listen to scientology critics they cloud around the same kinds of logical criticism. I reccomend the film “the bridge”
I watched it, thanx.
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“I said technology, I didn’t say calculators”
You did mention calculators as an example.
“What about computers that self-run after being put into motion?”
No AI, sorry.
“You’re making assumptions on nothing. did I say before I get a TIME LIMIT?”
60 minutes, like the amount TZM couldn’t get, thanx for reminding me.
“what you don’t want to talk to a member of TZM”
I lol’d on how you used “what”.
“That’s good, because I’ve seen advertisements that attempt to.”
I’ve seen a movie a long time ago, it’s called.. I won’t link or say the name of the film, but Katie Holmes is featured in it and Tom Cruise isn’t in it and it’s about Tobacco Academy and it’s on youtube, right now. I saw it, but if you haven’t, be careful lol.
“Part of the term cult implies secret club to me because sceintology makes videos for it’s own members not the public.”
Maybe secret videos were created in those closed teams.
“damn there’s still more lol.”
That’s how I feel right now typing all of this.
“Well I would disagree with that, people making 3D models of things is useful to science. Say you take a 3D scan of your body to check if there’s something wrong with it.”
There’s a difference between the two, but I wouldn’t call a nurse using a machine scanning your body or someone who photoshops a scientist.
“To have bipolar it sounds like you need to be wild or completely out of self control”
Not completely, no.
“You might be wondering why I value someone who wants to be hated”
I don’t want to be hated on, because I don’t want to die.
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“Money in itself is not natural it’s human made”
Anything made by human beings are made by mother nature of course.
“I’m talking about any employer that tells me money is valuable.”
I bet you would kiss your employer if he or she paid you more, if you had a job.
“So there can’t be a con-artist with “real credentials”?
Not as many.
“Well apparently it is, the catch of course is what’s termed the contradiction of capitalism.”
You kiss Karl Marx I bet.
“Just so you know you’re watching “channel 666″ or whatever.”
So if you don’t sell your TV, you’re a Satanist.
“So you trust a certain type of brand for life.”
I don’t.
“No problem, the value of this conversation needs to be here so there’s a gateway between critics and members I think.”
This directory in this comment is going to be great for readers.
“After a time, you loose energy for hate completely. At least that’s my experiance.”
That’s awesome.
“Hey hey Mars my man help a brother out huh?” “Grow up kid” -Moving Forward”
Clearly this why the Venus Project made the split, their planet was not mentioned.
“For example although scientology critics might have made assumptions about the workings of sceintology, they actually obtained their secret doctrines”
I heard audio from meetings not recorded without Zeitards knowing there were being recorded exposing them as retards. I guess that challenge you mentioned before has took place already.
“So why not use zeitgeist for my goal?”
Because they are a major contradiction, as you said.
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“People do open-source projects for free.”
I like Open Source Ecology.
“Implying love for products over people. It’s not said directly “you will love this product more than your lover” No way would they say that.”
I don’t think I ever saw that implied in commercials, unless it’s a parody of a commercial. Commercials are more funny now days anyways.
“I don’t hate advertising I hate what is advertised or how advertising techniques are used.”
But when Peter Joseph Merola uses those same techniques, I guess to you it’s okay.
“If you look at the TV not the screen”
I look at the screen when I watch TV.
“On the introduction it just says that TZM does not want you to see this video.”
When that part is highlighted, Zeitards get mad.
“So there’s no cult experts with experience and knowledge just credentials?”
I don’t think they’ll be another cult expert reviewing TZM, since it’s dead.
“Any possibility that a hoarding behaviour would happen even if the situation didn’t require it would be overcome with education.”
If that “education” is “patchwork” to you, then in a RBE, there will be more hoarders I think.
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“Think of the prison guards that are forced to become bullies.”
I don’t think they are forced to.
“I was talking before about how the mundane jobs are aimed towards being replaced by technology remember?”
I said what’s mundane to you may be mundane to someone else.
“To be a scientologist for example YOU NEED TO PAY FOR THEIR COURSES.”
I could imagine Zeitard moderators of TS3 trying to charge for reading to them, online book clubs, like I said, on the forums, Peter Joseph Merola came close to wanting to charge people for signing up.
“lol’d.”
Now someone else is going by Anonymous and using Google site to represent themselves, I guess I was that funny.
“You can’t call any organisation moral since every organisation is a business in a monetary system.”
Sustainable businesses are moral, I remember when Peter Joseph Merola said in his list of suggestions at the end of Zeitgeist: Addendum, that people should support businesses like those, he can’t make up his mind.
“Because he knows he’s being a bully”
But he said “sorry”.
“Also metaphorically speaking it sounds like he’s telling me to go burn in hell.”
“Change the World” said something like that to me:
http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/04/23/venus-project-has-found-a-new-sponsor/#comment-2135
When anyone offers collapse porn, I kind of feel that way.
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“But there’s a difference between DEAD and DYING.”
Okay you constantly posting proves to me you’re alive, but TZM is still dead.
“I looked up some of the videos that advocate the zeitgeist movements and some of them sounded like very warm and intelligent people.”
Some of them are fake too, we all know R2D2 and Michael Jordan aren’t Zeitards.
“I could say it looks natural for a girl to learn how to act like a dog from dogs!”
I can’t.
“A court can potentially send you a letter claiming you’ve broken any law, you should notice how it’s YOU that must defend your innocence, not the court’s.”
I would want to tell my side of the story to try to explain why I’m innocent, not showing up assumes, well the courts will find me guilty.
“Bullies would make the venus project into havoc.”
If they are not trolls, they’re bullies. Well I don’t think he’s a bully, or any people for TZM that gave constructive criticism, they seem more ready.
“If the zeitgeist movement is such a non-issue to this person I can’t understand why this video was even made in the first place.”
Back then I think the Zeitgeist Movement was alive.
“If we can prove something is immoral then that will make a person feel uncomfortable to continue to engage in that activity.”
But he made more videos.
“Critics publicise zeitgeist by mentioning it, in a negative or positive light.”
I thought to want criticism from both sides meant love to you.
“He evidently knows his own contradiction to an extent”
I think people can want things to be better without wanting utopia.
“People don’t like insolent comments.”
People don’t like bums that don’t contribute to society.
“Having fun being offended by the idea of people loving each other without money in a global social system?”
You’re assuming everyone wants a RBE, that’s not love, that’s force.
“Because pessimism is irrational and uncreative.”
Uncreative ? Yes. Irrational ? No.
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“Are you going”
Those type of questions are funny, you’re assuming I’m some type of person in power.
“I can’t comment on conditions of the TZM youtube channel because you’re on it more than me, but you already know my position on that, I disagree with censorship.”
That’s good, I think it’s important to point out again that the Q&A videos are gone and people should ask why Apollo who looks like in picture is eating shit won’t upload the old radio shows.
“People being in a religion is being more seperate from eachother”
I thought churches brought communities together.
“You’re going to burn in hell if you do actions X, Y, or Z.”
Those letters would be the explanation, they are called variables.
“There’s no way I can prove some of the outrageous claims made in “zeitgeist: the movie”
Good.
“So, for example, people who hold sacred their beliefs in the free market will denounce anyone who promotes open-source as “blasphemers”.
I doubt they would if people who are into open source projects go to other businesses to buy products they wouldn’t normally buy to try to make something themselves.
“Well it depends on the statements for example; “where logic and new information is rejected in favour of traditional outdated beliefs” -zeigeist addendum.”
That just shows they are ignorant of history, anarcho-communism doesn’t work.
“The difference between the open-source social system (RBE) is we want to TEST what works and what does not, yet we can’t test it with the current social values in place.”
As I already explained, people’s values are always changing, you might as well do a test city now to prove to everyone a RBE can work. Since everyone is a part of the “Zeitgeist”.
“It’s not working because I’m legitimately unhappy and I’m part of the system.”
It works for me, but even I don’t think the monetary system is an utopia.
“The most irrational critics of course are the most religious, where they claim the people who have put forth inspirational ideas are under the influence of the mythical being Satan.”
You’re a hypocrite, you think when you watch TV, it says 666 and also claim not to be religious.
“please go to Youtube and search for “Why Scientists Don’t Fear Hell”.
Oh that’s from the same guy.
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“This is mentioned in Ben Mcleish’s new lecture.”
Firing back ? When I read titles like that, like the other youtube documentary “Zeitgeist Reloaded”, I sometimes think that they are proud of Jared Lee Loughner.
“Religious extremists now don’t exist??”
They do.
“So I need all the university degrees to even talk science?”
The leaders should at least, if not, then we can’t automatically assume that they know more than critics.
“Yet what’s interesting is I once heard that Microsoft apparently would rather you pirate windows than use LINUX.”
I bet you use Windows tho.
“The ones who have been conditioned to think buying films makes you look cool.”
Someone responded to you:
http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-2998
“Scientists aren’t here to get along with people, they tell people what their findings are” -Moving Forward”
Oh for awhile I thought you thought they were corrupt.
“Zeitgeist: Moving Forward in some ways is pessimistic near the end of the film. It talks about oil production coming to a close and if we continue the current path of assuming infinite growth/consumerism then we’re in for trouble.”
Michael Ruppert has a lot of failed predictions:
http://skepticproject.com/articles/predictions/search/?type=&author=Michael+Ruppert
“It’s not voluntary, I didn’t volunteer to be a part of the monetary system, I was born into it without my consent.”
But you have no problem using the technology that was driven by competition.
“There’s these places I often walk past where there’s caucasian women getting their nails done by immigrants.”
Insolent comment.
“It’s because God doesn’t make plans for human beings”
So I guess nature isn’t a dictatorship.
“If you have millionaires owning 100 room mansions while you have poor people living in trailer parks”
I think people can go from rags to riches.
“When it comes to religious people it’s very hard to tell when they’re being metaphorical Vs. literal.”
Like how I struggle understanding you.
“Was Adam Smith being metaphorical or literal when he said the market was guided by a hand?”
Metaphorical, unless you think Adam Smith prayed to a different God.
“If metaphorical what the truth was he trying to communicate?”
That spontaneous order exist.
“I recommend you search for the lyrics of a song”
I love Capitalism, that song by Oingo Boingo.
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“Do you understand how the opinion of politics can be affected by bribery?”
Here’s another: http://www.govtrack.us
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“Actually it is, presenting good ideas IS science.”
Science has to be used to determine if the idea is actually good.
“Getting your basic human needs met is “spoiled behaviour”?”
My basic needs are met, now Zeitards want to live like Bill Gates while telling me people who live in 100 bedroom mansions make people violent.
“It’s important to support PEOPLE not COMPANIES because COMPANIES are not PEOPLE.”
I support companies so that businesses don’t fail and that employers don’t have to lay people off.
“I can’t judge if someone is being rude to me?”
As people have to detect who is lying, you should be able to detect as well with humor.
“so pessimism can only exist in anti-TZM videos?”
You proved it could in Z3 too.
“I’m not going to take pessimistic thinking seriously because it’s irrational”
I’m trying to be optimistic, more rational, please tell me what’s better than a moneyless society that does everything for you which machines that make machines, if you can answer this question, then I no longer can call RBE an utopia. Don’t use the time machine pausing metaphor either, that just didn’t make sense to begin with.
“Again, are you going to force people to have “confidence” in money?”
Obviously Peter Joseph Merola wants it forced too according to his parallel government video, wait, I guess he’s a dictator if you think monetary reform is force.
“If items brought happiness I’d kiss my computer.”
In a Resource-Based Economy, I think everyone will kiss resources like they kiss resources now in the monetary system, well, I think we in the monetary system don’t take resources for granted because we bust our ass to buy what we get, now when everything is handed to you, you become spoiled and ungrateful, and lazy.
“You have to define “TOO MUCH”.
Someone who plans their days just watching TV and going on the internet, all day.
“I could say turning on your lights for hours at night is using technology too much.”
That’s a waste of electricity and when it’s waste, people complain about planned obsolescence when their light bulbs go out, it doesn’t make sense.
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“This is the idea behind the RBE”
This contradicts with your open source philosophy which is another reason why RBE isn’t open source.
“I had never heard of brandy BEFORE TZM, so she couldn’t have been that famous.”
I think she thinks she’s becoming more famous.
“Watch the scientology orientation video”
If I hear different voices in the new Zeinetology Orientation video, it will be no different.
“Also something interesting I noticed. People who make open-source projects know the criticisms of being labelled communist just like people who support TZM or TVP”
I don’t see how open source programs can be rationed if they are always available to download whenever.
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“You can’t have people coming and going as they please if they feel guilty”
I don’t think everyone is religious, I think people become religious, switch religions, for example, that guy that was a Scientologist and was saved by Christianity, or was once religious and stop being religious. To say what you say is to assume no one changes.
“PRAISE JESUS”
If I saw Jesus with a swastika, I would be scared.
“They can’t hide videos since poeople like you repost them! That’s a good thing I encourage you to keep doing that.”
Awesome.
“Ummm… did you focus on the content of that video at all?”
When I first started watching this, I said to myself, this reminds me of Zeitards walking up to people in Sacramento asking questions about money, but asking people questions in public isn’t something I would consider to be cult-like. But I don’t think cults care about people’s rights, or else cult leaders wouldn’t want their cult members to be drones. At least TZM, they get straight to the point and tell you the Constitution doesn’t mean shit after from the first film telling you that it should be protected. The shift is amazing if people pay attention. You tell me that we don’t live in a civilized world, but from the history that was broken down in that video, it tells me that we have been becoming civilized, gradually.
“you need direct proof of that”
I saw two people becoming suicidal in TZM, the guy defend eating shit was good and the one that felt scammed by the Venus Project.
“Haha!!”
I bet Charles Robinson interviewed both of them too.
“Some resources can’t be tracked because all resources are currently assumed to be owned by large corporations.”
Which would make the Global Redesign Institute impossible if they have the resources ready to sell to people and those resources can’t be tracked either.
“Well because to me I’m force to gamble in a way.”
You might be forced out for sure.
“I can’t represent the whole zeitgeist movement”
I think it could be represented easier as more people leave it.
“Do you want to know his date of birth and his favourite colour too?”
I’m going to guess March 15th and blue as he hypocritically wants to own the color blue I bet, but I really don’t care.
“Instead we get the financial report, how well the stocks, trades, and investments are going as if it means something.”
You should change the channel.
“Blaming and punishing a person doesn’t do justice”
I think so, Bernie Madoff had it coming.
“It’s fascist, the bankers are the lawmakers because they tell me I can’t write numbers on a piece of paper and call it “money”.
I thought they were being nice by not giving you all of the country’s debt.
“Of course there’s the peer pressure element where people will request that you to make a facebook account.”
You can hide your ip on facebook too.
“I don’t know who that is I’ll have to look that person up”
Her and Douglas Mallette would make a great couple, but Douglas Mallette would have to divorce his wife, I think.
“In otherwords they’re looking for people that break the law”
At least I know they are doing their jobs.
“What are we guilty of?”
Nothing if you’re not resisting arrest. Shit, if you act calm, you may just get a warning.
I RESPOND TO YOUR DICTATOR RESPONSE:
Yes he’s the founder of the movement and in the “Zeitgeist” before his films, no one knew what a RBE was and a lot of people still don’t because I think they were bullshitting about the 50 million that supposedly heard of a RBE or else they would have more than 500,000 people, supposedly. I missed it, the only thing I caught was the George Carlin skit and assassinations are bad, I don’t think there were conspiracy theories in that movie, but if people for TZM promoted Z3 only, people will be like.. I think I start with the first one and then bam! Zeitards are doomed from the very beginning.
I’ll quickly go through the zeitgiest series:
“People who have beliefs in the marketplace will be offended by moving forward”
But I saw Max Keiser.
If you want a third testament, you can always find history textbooks. Yeah it’s a good thing that I’m saving him this name game headache. Since people for TZM don’t have a model, I think people should just create their own models instead. Zeitards are just being lazy now and they tell critics people won’t be lazy in the future, I call bullshit. Z3 also seems to want a violent revolution as when I saw “Los Angeles Tribune: Western Crimes Rates Soar”. In a cybernated government, there will be technicians, worse, wannabee technicians, people forget that the Venus Project split from Technocracy. There would be I think, if Zeitards offer a cybernated government where people manage resources, okay, lets say people feel that whoever are managing the resources are doing a shitty job and someone thinks he can do better, politics will come back. If not, then you have a dictator. When the forums disappeared, there was no scientific democracy, no one voted for it to stay or for it to go I thought, Peter Joseph Merola was the one to pull the plug.
“Last time I heard Peter Fresco speak about TZM (The Joe Rogan Experience) he claimed yet again that he doesn’t want to be seen as a hero.”
But he added a hero in the third film, but he left, I think he works for the FBI.
“You need to remember, what you think isn’t science.”
You’re trying to say doing a test city isn’t Science now, amazing.
“It depends on how much people hate money if we move into an open-source social system”
Where everything is like Wikipedia will scare me, that’s why I trust specialists and with specialist, you have a more trusting society.
“Wow! that makes me feel so much safer considering there’s people out there with beliefs that using guns is a good idea.”
If that test city works, then another can be created and you can feel safer, if not, then buy a gun to protect yourself.
“Saying it’s not your place”
I think he’s saying everyone has a right to their own opinion.
“If people love each other then I don’t think people will have a use for guns.”
Guns might be still needed, you might have a dictator.
“education is difficult when people are unwilling to learn.”
I don’t think people are uneducated because they are not interested or want a RBE.
“He doesn’t sound happy with the market model, proving the that the market does not provide for all people. Otherwise people for the most part would be happy.”
I pay my bills and I get by fine, no pun intended.
“If love was the payment for my actions then I would not want to do the bare minimum.”
Actually you do since you stay isolated with the same people.
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I got that term from Jim Jesus’ blog, I need to give him credit:
http://www.jimjesus.com/2011/03/zeientology-movement.html
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“Is this the one where he goes on about how his child understood some of the logic behind the zeitgeist theory and how his child didn’t like money?”
According to the library example you gave me to try to explain RBE to me, kids aren’t going to like I don’t think, I explain here:
http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/venus-project-launches-video-exposing-peter-joseph/#comment-3025
“It’s sad if this social system allows people to live on their own if we are in fact social creatures”
I expect that to be temporary, until those who move out have their own families.
“Barter is anti-social because it’s not sharing.”
If they barter again with the same products it is.
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“A black market is going to exist for example because the market allows for it.”
Damn that RBE seems more impossible.
“That sounds like a private dictatorship to me.”
Then I guess you should protest about your right to privacy.
I MIGHT HAVE MORE CONCERNS.
Anonymous supports a RBE?
Anonymous is simply not going by the identity name you go by in the business word “John Smith”
There are many operations a group of anonymous can get up to, yet it’s important that when anonymous does act , that they act together and for a positive goal. One of the things that put anonymous on the map was when they did hat massive protest against scientology. Scientology was not shut down by anonymous at all for their actions though because the problem is much deeper than just getting rid of scientology.
The functions of the current society allowed scientology to be brought into existence. The ignorance of the public.
Anonymous is simply the idea of not saying you’re a name. You are more than just a name is anonymous’s view. You can only point to groups of anonymous that may not support TZM. Some anonymous do support an RBE because I’m being anonymous when I post on this thread.
“I listen to all his shows from the beginning of 2011, I think 4 from 2010 also, and I’m waiting for his last show where he exposes me and others as paid agents.”
Again, this isn’t the issue. The validity of information from all sides is the issue. I linked that show where he talks about how he doesn’t like people asking him what to do.
Members have to set their own goals towards how to spread “awareness” as they say.
“TZM was doomed from the very beginning.”
The idea of open-source existed before TZM. have you ever heard of UNIX or LINUX? the idea is expanded to a whole social system (resource-based economy = open-source social system).
“When he gets emails, I’m sure he does his best to give everyone advice, at least to the ones who are completely clueless and what to do in order support a RBE or RBEM. as I said, I think he really does like the “cult of personality”.”
That might be your opinion, but it’s not effective. If people want to support the idea of an RBE, they need to set their own goals and not rely on others or leaders to make their goals for them.
The overshawdowing goal is there which you could say was set by peter freso – an open-source social system with its social values based on science but how we get there is up to members of TZM and the public if it wants it.
“It is up to you” -zeitgeist addendum
“He contradicts himself then, because I remember watching the WHO IS PETER JOSEPH him saying he wants to keep collecting people.”
He wants to collect people like marbles? (joking). He wants more people to be informed about these ideas because that might make a better future.
His choice of words might have been clumsy. The only way this is going to happen is if people know what to do without following a leader.
Good examples: the anonymous movement, and the occupy movement.
You might be happy to know that I don’t follow anyone.
“I have nothing to say about those who truly want a better world, rather they are in TZM or not and aren’t Zeitards like the people I come across.”
The passing of gullabile people can only be achieved by advocating people to do “critical thinking”.
“If a critic, more likely a Zeitard posing as a critic saying violent things, it wouldn’t be allowed either:”
Instead of calling people “zeitards” all the time, why don’t you question why people say violent things?
“they load the language more because they think they actually have a model when they don’t where it can be assumed with the Venus Project, that they have one, which I don’t think they have one either.”
The process of science is to experiment. To experiment new ideas, to experiment new construction techniques, new ways of thinking etc. Science is about in some ways taking a risk for the sake of experimentation.
You don’t think they have a plan? Do they have ideas? are there ways these ideas can be tested? Do the current social values accomadate testing in areas that might make the current social operation obsolete?
“To advertise better and get people to come to his shitty Zeitgeist Media Festival event where he tried to get more money like how artists do with their music and get them to come see them on tour.”
Oh really? I question that with a quote from zeitgeist: requiem for one
“I am only a child but I know, that if all the money spent on war was used to solve social problems, ending poverty, what a wonderful place the world would be”
With a quote like that is the goal JUST to make money, or does the operation of business (since this current system is a business) force someone to attempt to make money while promoting ideas that discourage the money-market system.
Right now, how much am I being paid to respond to you? that’s right! nothing.
“Ask Matthew Wagner.”
Provide explanations.
“I understand their paradox, they need money to get out of the monetary system to get in a RBE, but if there’s no transparency and all they want to do is make films, then that proves to me they are delusional.”
There’s no transparency in any business. All they want to do is make films? it depends what the films are commnicating. Thus far moving forward was informative enough plus with a person’s own independant unbiased investigations, should know what to do.
Copyright law is a lie, and it’s insane for a business to say they own the colour blue. Therefore copyright has to go. Intelectual property has to go in order for ideas to be shared. The blossoming of sharing ideas will awaken new methods of doing things. Right now patents don’t allow that sort of progress.
“Sometimes there’s nothing at all that can explain a killer’s actions” – That’s something I expect a cop to say 100 years ago.”
I got that line from the title of a newpaper article that was produced when I posted that message. Welcome to 100 years ago.
“The Alexa ratings will disagree with you.”
That’s like saying people don’t pirate, and people don’t use open-source. Is everyone buying MP3s and I’m the only one left pirating them?
wow!
“I think he thought he would be able to originally, then he told Joe Rogan he’s working for Wall Street again, I lol’d.”
Lies crumble while the truth stands on its own. In time people will be forced to realise that love is more valuable than money.
“Quoting people isn’t stealing.”
When do you draw the line when it’s stealing and when it’s not stealing?
“But then have next them, a donation box, like Cliff, or whoever that Zeitard is.”
There’s not enough money to save the world, I agreed with you in this aspect. How is there? there’s money to spend on war, yet there’s no money for peace.
“Those guys thought the last 30 minutes probably wasn’t even archived on blogtalkradio I bet.”
Annihilating people does not solve problems, it makes the world worse. This is the opinion of countries who engage in war.
to use the word “Annihilate” is bad choice of word(s) even if they didn’t mean it in the way you’re saying.
“just because they are online doesn’t mean they are at home and are “rich-fags”.”
They’re more rich than me.
“Then when it comes to solving the world’s problems, then Jacque Fresco and Peter Joseph Merola should just say “I don’t know”.”
The idea of science is to say “I don’t know”. We need to investigate how to solve problems. Right now we think we do know, engaging in war people think solves problems.
“Because no one makes the decisions and they are arrived at, whatever that means.”
It means that there’s a correct way to solve a problem because when you boil down the workings of this reality, they do not change.
Just like the way cells duplicate. They duplicate using the same method over and over because the complexity can’t be reduced anymore at the microscopic level.
“People can be induced by it when TZM says non-violent offenders go to prison as long as murderers do, say cancer is increasing globally, debt is bad, war, poverty, etc. Anyone can get suckered into it.”
Aren’t those things true?
“If you really want to change values for the better, lead by example.”
Agree.
“Everyone is allowed to practice whatever religion they want, that’s why it’s allowed, if the cult members can’t handle criticism, then they should leave the cult.”
disagree here. In some religions the practice of the religion is to hurt people.
“The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.” Exodus 15:3 (the bible)
“I think letters are in CAPS because, as that link says, to make sure that names are read correctly, for an example, I and l can look the same, but not I and L.”
Doesn’t matter if they’re in CAPS or not. A name is not what you are, therefore a name is fraud. You are anonymous.
“Admitting that you’re hypocritical and showing you’re willing to change to avoid being hypocritical is a person better than the person that is hypocritical and it’s pointed out to them and don’t do jack shit about it but call you a troll.”
Wow! great compliment!
“I think we are already, I think you should watch Steven Pinker’s video called “A brief history of violence”.”
I’ll try to look into that, but if there’s still war (drill sergents conditioning people to be violent), or violence, then there’s something wrong with the culture. Making it a self-destructive or self-defeating culture.
“I hope you don’t support or in Desteni.”
There were these weird videos where this person breathed in and claimed they were people who have died or some rubbish. If that’s what you’re talking about no I don’t follow the idea of magical powers.
It’s important to assess the information presented though and some of it made sense from what I could follow. There was a video that talked about multiplie personailities and the confusion where a person has to act as different characers around certain people. I feel it’s important to say you support the human race, rather than ANY particular group.
Out of time, I’ll copy the rest!
“I am only a child but I know, that if all the money spent on war was used to solve social problems, ending poverty, what a wonderful place the world would be”
Her father bitchslapped Peter Joseph Merola:
http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/forum/1669/dr-peter-joseph-merola-says-they-just-dont-get-it-again-how-could-they
“Provide explanations.”
Check out the new articles, opinions are effective.
“When do you draw the line when it’s stealing and when it’s not stealing?”
When someone takes a quote from someone else and puts their name on it. However, quoting someone is sourcing.
I got the XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX from 2012 CT.
“Doesn’t matter if”
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/02/07/fbi-sees-rising-threat-from-sovereign-citizen-movement
Uh oh..
Before I finish off responding to your mega-post I want to link you The bomb in the brain series.
“It’s more like imaginary magical robots, which is why TZM can be seen as a religion.”
To produce future technology we need to imagine the future. If you want a positive future, you have to imagine it, and calculate how do you bring a positive idea that would make life better into reality?
Religion is where you get on your hands and knees and submit or pray unnecessarily to God or whoever. THE COSMOS DOESN’T CARE IF YOU PRAY TO IT.
Science is imaging and attempting to bring what’s imagined into reality. It’s only imagined if you do not do experimentation. Where you just wonder “what if”.
The technology that is presented in moving forward, a lot of it exists now. What’s extrapolated is not meant to be far off.
“It isn’t, see, if you want to find out why cults form, you have to look at the cult leader and potential cult leaders show that they suffer from narcissistic personality disorder.”
Their importance is inflated only to the extent of how well they can commnicate ideas. Their ego’s are irrelevant if you want to assess the information they’re commnicating. Someone might be a good speaker yet I don’t think that makes them narcissistic. When does a member of TZM bang their fists their presentation stand?
Of course some members of the public are ignorant enough to go along with people who have a sense of inflated importance (egotistical). They don’t want to do their own thinking so they want others to think for them. This common social mental illness is what gives cults power.
“I think there’s a difference between lip service and actually explaining how you can do a RBE test city.”
You’re talking about how the actions of the zeitgeist movement won’t follow what they say? Personally I don’t know how an RBE test city would work. I only know some of the theory behind it.
Using clean energy sources, wave, wind, solar, geothermal, a RBE city is powered to such an extend that energy is abundant. Every city powers itself with creative methods of finding energy.
The resources that are minded and used, are used with preciseness. Meaning we want to recycle resources to get away from the linear practice that we have now, of extracting resources, using the product, then dumping it into landfills.
Automation technology or cybernation is used to minimise the requirement for monotonous human labour to be needed to keep the society operational.
What else? With freedom from the monotonous human labour of the marketplace human beings must then start contemplating their place in the cosmos. The ironic fear of perfect freedom.
“That’s not scientific.”
What is sceintific? In terms of technology we must test the technology that would be needed to make a highly technological society work. What’s wrong with it being a global system? We are all on one planet and we must work together.
The separation of human beings into countries has become cancerous. A country’s growth is like the growth of a seeking only its own benefit till it kills the host and ironically itself.
“You should have enough money to make a copy of a key to the house you live with your parents in.”
I was being metaphorical. You are “locked out” of doing things simply because you don’t have the money to pay for goods and services.
“You’re assuming everyone on this planet is apathetic.”
From what I’ve seen, the so called modern or civilised society is, yes.
“You’re assuming everyone that goes by people’s names want to assassinate them, people don’t murder people because of names.”
Why do people murder each other? It’s because they’re unhappy and they’re mentally sick. (psychosis).
“Celebrate and hope that people for TZM do as well:”
We’re all part of the social climate, regardless of people who say they are or are not in TZM.
“I feel sorry those who want to burn themselves because of the names their parents gave them.”
I feel sorry for people because we’ve been given a totally false set of social values.
“It fails because you don’t want the monetary system to meet your requirements by moving out and not having to live with your dad, or stepdad and get a job that you know you would love doing.”
That’s such a lie. The monetary-market system doesn’t meet the needs of the human population right now. I can’t accept my needs being met while others have not got their needs met, that’s selfishness disguised as patriotism.
A job I’d love doing? Bullshit. The reward for my actions is love and the act of doing the action or job. Love is more valuable than money. Moving Forward and films that insult money and promote love contradicts the marketplace because you can’t sell or buy love. It can only be given or shared.
You’ve got the perspetive it seems, for what I communicate to be credible, I need to “move out”.
“I would only perceive that if your poster was covering someone elses. That’s rude.”
That’s an assumption, I don’t do that. Yet for the people who do that it depends what they’re covering up if it’s rude or not. What if it’s covering something that is rude?
“People don’t like what they disagree with, or else they are hypocrites.”
If you find out something to be untrue, the people who promote falsehood are going to be disturbing.
“The minds of TZM and TVP are confusing, they tell you “love” is a bullshit word but always use “love” to promote themselves.”
It depends how the word “Love” is used. It can be used as a cover to promote something that isn’t love. The implication is that politics is spreading love for example, when they say they’re spreading peace, freedom and democracy.
When I say that word “love” I’m talking about preservation of humanity. Humanity has to like itself if it wants to continue existing otherwise through its attitude it will enjoy its own demise. A smiling depressive.
“Someone that’s verbally expressing physical harm to someone, I haven’t seen a critic say this to a Zeitard.”
Although a critic of TZM, Stefan Molenew made a series called “The Bomb in the Brain”
It talks about how verbal insults inflict physical harm on the brain development of people.
“It’s not a contradiction if you say it, to know nothing, means that organisation is dead, metaphorically, I’m just using your logic against you with his words.”
The organisation of people advocating open-source and piracy hasn’t stopped. In a way it doesn’t matter how many people are left in TZM, they stick around to promote ideas. What will dissolve the monetary-market is people realising how open-source is more efficient than the market’s methods of operation.
There was a news story recently that talked about how there are websites springing up where people are sharing their stuff for no money through a category website. This is a nightmare for the market which needs constant consumption.
Is TZM dead? You need to define dead, there’s still members in it posting news articles. The website is active. It depends how much those people influence the public. What If I call myself a member of humanity instead of a member of TZM?
“He should be.”
Mental health is connected to obesity.
“Obviously they do or else they wouldn’t have coined a RBE to a RBEM.”
I don’t, it’s a resource-based economy. Why do they need to add the word “model”? Anyway, who cares RBE, RBEM, same thing.
“So you’re saying there is a leader.”
I’m the leader of TZM! If there is a “leader” then TZM has missed the point. It’s about what arrives a person’s thought process to the conclusion that a resource-based economy is a good idea.
The idea is, human beings caring about each other, instead of the current culture that is indifferent to itself. Of course total dependance isn’t a good thing, it’s a balance. Right now I think we’re too independent or isolated from ourselves and others. That’s if we are social creatures.
“The one with clout in TZM would be VTV, yeah, then it will definitely be a cult, no longer benign, for sure.”
“Special advantage or influence” What influence will VTV have over me? Do you think I’m going to take nazi orders from him?
“Well of course, he encourages people to create why they advocate cult videos, that campaign is dead tho.”
Do you examine the value of the content produced in those “cult videos”? That campaign is dead? What stops people from producing zeitgeist related videos? If people do enough independent thinking they might make videos that encourage critical thinking.
“That’s what you said to make me think you had daddy issues of some kind.”
I was commenting on the “big daddy” or “big brother” idea. The idea that you need to ask an authority if you’re allowed to do certain things based on someone else’s moral judgement. I was joking of course but the reason why people do that is that they’re afraid of using their own moral judgement.
A good moral judgement of course is scientifically defined not defined by “big brother”
“It must be difficult for those who’ve taken authority as the truth rather than truth as the authority.” -zeitgeist: the movie.
“Where his video starting that campaign disappeared from”
The duplication youtube provides means it’s still on youtube somewhere I bet.
“Coordinators have to and pretend they don’t, when defending their cult ideology when it comes to critics, or trolls they say.”
Well you have to prove coordinators are taking orders from a single leader or if they’re simply coordinating a group. Are you getting the harassment that anti-scientologists get thats been documented?
“That’s like stalking someone that broke up with you.”
They’re stalking the train of thought or the ideas! Not the people!
“More different type of labor would be needed unless you think really machine can make machines that operate machines.”
When you increase technological progress you decrease monotonous labour. Operate machines? the word is cybernation.
cybernation (noun)
1. The control of processes by computer
cybernate (verb)
1. Control a function, process, or creation by a computer
The word exists in the dictionary, if you look up examples of cybernation in modern technology you wouldn’t find nothing.
“I think any economy is based on resources as along as it takes into account, supply and demand.”
Seperate from interaction with the marketplace, you can’t use money for anything. I’ve watched videos and read articles about how money has a drug affect on the brain, separating someone from reality in such a way that they feel people should be extremely independent. Money seperates people from reality because it makes them think that money has more value than love.
Again when I use the word love I’m talking about human beings valuing their own life and humanity.
This also comes back to the argument was Adam Smith being metaphorical or not when he said the economy was being guided by a invisible hand in order to maintain equilibrium? Right now equilibrium is not maintained by the current economy.
“I would have been really scared if I saw a list of the 1,000 people that people for TZM wanted to kill and saw that Zeitards thought they had magical power to list people and make them die. I was listed on the facebook blacklist and I’m still alive, I know Scientologists list people too.”
The only way to be taken seriously is to remain focused on information validity. There’s a difference between TZM making a blacklist for people who they see as making too many insolent comments, versus what scientology does when they make a list.
When scientologists make a list of critics they apparently harass them and spread misinformation about them, when TZM makes a list of critics it’s because they have deemed certain people to be making too many insolent comments.
Insolent (Adjective)
1. Marked by casual disrespect
“By worrying about the people delusional thinking they are still the activst arm of the Venus Project, I can still share concerns about what they offer still, which is still the same thing TZM talks about.”
They’re the activst arm of the ideas the venus project has presented, in lectures they still reference the venus project and other futurists.
“TZM is dead because it doesn’t have the Venus Project support anymore. Also I don’t speak Esperanto, I lol when I see Zeitards, some of them, try to promote this to the Venus Project as a way to talk to people globally and even he [Jacque Fresco] rejects that like he rejects TZM.”
My activism has been the same before and after the apparent breakup. Why? Well because there’s never been any leader that I was supposedly following how could it?
Are you saying I can’t promote the venus project’s ideas or train of thought because of the breakup “big brother”? The label “the venus project” or “the zeitgeist movement” is irrelevant. What’s valued is getting people to come to the conclusion that an open-source social system is a good idea, what reffered to as an RBE.
big brother (noun)
1. An authoritarian leader and invader of privacy
“I’m not an organisation.”
you’re an organism, an organism must be oranised to be alive. The human body is not planned randomly. DNA is not random.
“That’s probably why I thought you were becoming bipolar, I don’t know anyone who would ask if they are lying or not. Maybe you should continue to stay home until you’re better.”
It’s important to be able to tell if someone is lying or not. The only way you’re going to be able to tell if I’m lying or not is if you know what the truth is. I ask myself two simple questions to try to discern the truth.
1. Is the well being and peace of all creation included?
2. Does your God require worship or service?
firstly, if people want war and mayhem I believe that will not lead to myself and others having good health, and secondly, since the cosmos doesn’t care what we do then prayer is intellectual slavery, insanity, and a complete waste of time.
“http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Realworldistan”
Can you speak without slang?
“That’s crazy. I think this has some truth to it.”
There’s no proof of it, yet gain whatever enlightenment you want out of what I say. What matters are the parables that lead you to truth.
“You have to know the truth and seek the truth and the truth will set you free.” zeitgeist: the movie
“he was asking you to seek it.”
Don’t need it. As a apparently social creature I need healthy social relations, not medication.
“That sounds like a threat.”
You reap what you sow, I’m personally not going to do anything. I’m trying to give a warning of when you push people or insult them too much they start pushing back.
There’s a quote which goes something along the lines that even Buddha gets angry if you keep slapping him.
“Being a monster is nothing to be proud about.”
True there! do you think I was lying or telling the truth?
“Then do that.”
Giving psychiatric help avoids the problem.
“You’re saying that as if all medicine is placebo.”
Medicine is not a placebo, medicine avoids the problem.
“Which is why this site is a threat, I guess, there’s more authors, now, not when Peter Joseph Merola said we were working together when he said we were paid agents.”
It’s about the validity of information. If you have a group of zeitgeist critics spreading misinformation about the zeitgeist movement the efforts combine.
If zeitgeist critics are spreading misinformation about TZM, then they’re all paid agent (under contract or independent it doesn’t matter). Critics that spread misinformation use their time and money to spread misinformation. Why? Because they don’t like the goals or are disturbed by the goals of TZM. An open-source social system without money, war, poverty and disequilibrium.
You see, it’s easier to be a critic of a person’s creations than to try to create something themselves. I remember once there was this weird zeitgeist critic that made a replica of the circular city for the purpose of insulting it. It was amazing.
“Which is why I will always see them as similar to each other.”
We know internet censorship techniques do not work, you re-post, mirror, etc, I can’t remember when the zeitgeist movement has tried to heavily induce me into coughing up money.
Prove the zeitgeist brainwashing techniques exist;
Brainwashing (verb)
1. Persuade completely, often through coercion
I can’t remember Peter Fresco using force, do you?
“I wouldn’t call this site a campaign, but critics will still talk shit still so that others can stay away from cults or organisations that might be one.”
You admit to its goal in the second part of the sentence, “others can stay away from cults”.
Campaign (noun)
3. Several related operations aimed at achieving a particular goal (usually within geographical and temporal constraints)
Cult (noun)
1. Adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices
Religious beliefs (noun)
1. A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny
It’s not about if I believe in destiny or not, it’s about if there actually is destiny built into the world. So for example, what do all human beings want generally speaking? We want happiness making happiness a destiny. That does not mean chance does not exist, I said it’s simply a destiny for humans if humans generally want to be happy.
Having a belief in something is accepting the ideas without questioning the ideas. When we question the ideas and find validity it turns into scientific fact, and beliefs dissolve.
“We all win as more people leave cults.”
I agree, yet I wonder if you know the difference between religious beliefs and discovering scientific facts.
“how you or people for TZM see him.”
I see Jason Lord as another presenter of ideas, nothing more.
“I’m not drowning in this conversation.”
I was using a metaphor there. I was speaking of the noise phenomena that’s heard when people do speak the truth. In other words, sometimes when someone speaks the truth in a forum someone else might know they’re speaking the truth yet they don’t want the truth to get out so they’ll produce noise to confuse the conversation. Classic example is from FOX NEWS when they claim scientists are coming up with “their opinion”.
“You’re still assuming I didn’t review anything from TZM if it’s “unresearched information”.”
If what they said doesn’t phase you, what they apparently promise is the social atmosphere to get unbearable if the social values don’t change to ones that are more based on reality.
“Because we’re already created, or else we wouldn’t be communicating.”
The creation process doesn’t end, we’re constantly changing and being updated with new information and ideas of course until death.
“Unless we spoke before, I don’t think I even influenced you.”
It’s the social atmosphere, social climate, or zeitgeist, that we all influence, on a individual level, and on a societal level.
““I mean you’ve confirmed that all zeit-tards pray to peter” Metaphorically.”
There’s a difference between people enjoying someone’s ideas, whether it’s Jason Lord, Peter Lord, Jacque Lord or whoever, and people praying to them.
“If you lie, depending on the lies that came from you, you make TZM look bad, you hurt them, that’s not love.”
I could lie and say their goal is X when really their goal is Y. That makes me uninformed, how does it make TZM look bad?
“I didn’t magically produce and direct itself.”
I agree, yet it should be noted how the person that produced the film didn’t feel it was really needed to include a person’s name on it. It’s like the anonymous movement films that say that they’re made by anonymous.
There are plenty of internet films that don’t include the person’s name that made the film. Why bother? You know a person had to create it! Why does a person’s name matter to the extent that a person should always put their name on a film that they’ve made?
“This isn’t infinity, this is circular, like the Venus Project cities. This is why I thought you were lying.”
The idea behind the hand drawing the hand picture to me is that we create our reality, and our reality creates us. Of course it’s about creating a balance between the two.
You can’t explain the origin of information or the origin of the laws of nature as they’ve been called. They had to exist for us to exist, yet confusingly we have to exist to experience the existence of the laws of nature. It started with a big bang apparently.
“I thought there was truth to that.”
Someone FORMULATES a sentence that says “There is no shred of sanity left in me”, and you believe I’m telling the truth?
“They are even too lazy to save money to be self sufficient.”
Save money? There’s not enough money to save the planet, there’s enough to go to war though!
“I read that and wonder what you meant metaphorically, you already assume people who do people’s nails are immigrants.”
I meant absolutely nothing by “I visit the centre of black holes often”. I lol’d at my own statement.
I assumed that? I didn’t mean that as a general rule. I was talking about how I saw asian immigrants doing caucasian’s nails and to me it looked wrong.
“As everything else that makes you look retarded.”
Does it make you look retarded if you’re trying to rationally talk to someone who is retarded?
“loving society on the blood of the evil?” No.”
You should remember that that’s what our current society is trying to do with war. “Big brother” will protect us and make us a safe and loving society while we go over to another country and kill people.
“If TZM got that much power and was taken seriously, it could, I mean, you’re telling people there is no such thing as property and Zeitards would ask for those people’s resources, I don’t expect them to just give up their resources, shit could get bad.”
I can’t force people to give up their property, I can only attempt to convince people to share. If people refuse to give up the idea of property, then the RBE won’t be happening ever.
“Time will tell. Buying the same T-SHIRTS I think even he [Peter Joseph Merola] realises doesn’t help make him more money.”
More than T-SHIRTS, it’s the train of thought that needs to be effectively communicated.
If someone asked a member of TZM, what the zeitgeist movement shirt they were wearing was all about, then they need to be able to logically respond. “Hail Peter Fresco!” certainly wouldn’t be an appropriate response!
“Since you make it your choice to live with your parents, it sounds more of a luxury, which makes you a part of the middle class.”
Middle to low class. I could be worse off yes, yet I don’t think it would be wise NOT to think about the social operation that allows the extreme class division between the richest and the poorest members of society.
“I wouldn’t deny it as a factor, also, I did find that video called Happy New Fear, false alarm, I corrected myself.”
“Irrational films make people irrational.”
All factors need to be taken into account concerning what makes a killer. Again WHAT PARTS of the film make people irrational? If you generalise zeitgeist: the movie you make yourself vague, saying the whole film is irrational leads to mad implications.
“the whole system that we live in drills into us that we’re powerless and weak, it’s a big fat lie.” -zeitgeist: the movie
By your logic, people are powerless and weak and the system doesn’t drill that idea into them.
“Because that’s fiction, the thing is, people think Zeitgeist: The Movie is non-fiction.”
You think the brain can tell if it’s a fiction or non-fiction? The brain absorbs, period.
“I didn’t know prisoners, once sentenced, can easily pay to get out.”
I was being metaphorical. The fact I have to pay for everything is a burden to me.
“What’s best for someone may not be best for someone else, we’re not blank slates, everything being like a library I don’t think will work.”
Human needs can be categorised. Food, water, air, love, clothing, entertainment, information, freedom to express, etc.
You don’t think it’ll work? Prove it won’t work.
The statement; “What’s best for someone may not be best for someone else” is too vague for me to take seriously.
“I think people allow Zeitgeist films to be online because people are against censorship and are for freedom of speech and religion.”
Freedom of religion is only detrimental to humanity if you understand the meaning of the word “religion” and you know what science is.
I can’t remember the exact quote from “exodus” in the bible but it goes like this; “the lord is a man of war, and the lord is his name”. What does that tell you about what religion has to offer? Remember the bible is the word of God and God doesn’t make mistakes according to the religious.
Irrational religious teachings were around before zeitgeist.
“It’s a good thing we have referees.”
Of course, all business is corrupt since it’s all based on a lie, you can’t have clean business since love is more valuable than money.
“sports actually threaten the public.”
We live in a completely insane global cult or culture.
Culture
3. All the knowledge and values shared by a society
what kind of culture do we live in if the values are false?
“Give Family Guy another chance.”
Someone made a video called “Shit Guy”. I lol’d at it, I’ll try to link it below.
“That’s about as bad as when I did something random that wasn’t even funny” -Shit Guy
The humour in family guy is too forced for me. I might smirk at it, yet I can’t laugh at it.
“illegal and harmful.”
Just because it’s illegal and harmful doesn’t stop our reality allowing it. Understand the motivation for the actions.
“No it implies everyone has super hero powers.”
How? I never said anyone has superhero powers. People working together is not magic. Do you believe it’s impossible for people to work together? take this quote for example.
“The state of peace among men living side by side is not a natural state; the natural state is one of war” -Thomas Hobbs
“I don’t think history examined should disappear, it’s cult awareness.”
Cult awareness? Try thinking about the cult mentality of the culture.
“Be careful, Peter Joseph Merola might banish you, somehow, I mean, he is Peter Joseph Merola.”
Real spooky stuff. Let’s define the word banish shall we? Are you implying Peter Fresco has magical powers?
Banish (verb)
1. Expel from a community or group
2. Ban from a place of residence, as for punishment
3. Expel, as if by official decree
4. Drive away
How can I be banished from TZM? What is rigorously promoted is the idea that Peter Fresco has ultimate control over TZM. Well despite being an absolute nobody I recently found out that I made an impression on TZM. And you should have noticed it considered what I’ve been saying.
I kept mentioning the “make love, not money” poster I did awhile back, well someone recently used it for a zeitgeist article on the zeitgeist blog. The title of the article was “love”.
I receive no orders to make the media projects pictures I do. I mean unless you can prove I’ve got an e-mail address and I’m getting nazi commands from Peter Fresco to make the media project pictures I’ve done.
“I don’t care about posters, but when people for TZM do vandalism, make bomb threats pretending to be Obama, kill people and plan to kill more, that would be “activism” that scares me.”
You must ask the question WHY? Why do people do vandalism? Why do people make bomb threats? Why do people kill people? People will keep doing the same negative actions over and over again unless the reason for the actions is understood.
The fact people do negative actions to me in an indication that the society isn’t listening to itself.
“I’ll let the police handle that stuff, since they are suppose to serve and protect us.”
The police won’t stop me because of what I do.
“It’s not out of date, we still need prices to measure how much something is worth and incentive for people to do stuff.”
So you’re saying there’s no way to measure the value of resources without money? You do realise that humans existed before the modern money-market system existed?
If it’s impossible to measure the value of resources without money you must prove it.
You don’t understand human incentive. For example I’m not getting paid to make pictures for the media project site, hence it must be impossible for you to explain why I make those media project pictures if you think people only do things for money.
Before I had more of an understanding about the world of money I already had an incentive to do things, and that incentive wasn’t towards obtaining money. Yet since that fact contradicts the market’s philosophy, it must not exist.
As little babies, people must be selling that baby labour in the market, I must be blind cause I’m just not be seeing it.
“If Vermin Supreme becomes president, brushing your teeth would be law and they would be criminals, well, I don’t think people would get arrested tho.”
What’s bad about encouraging a healthy society?
“I’m sure there are tips on how to feel better until you see a doctor after saving money for medicine and visit.”
There’s not enough money for everyone to be healthy.
“I’ll debate them.”
I don’t get it, constant debate doesn’t educate. I just shows you can disagree.
“For a global RBE, not for a test city, if a test city is a success, then it’s possible to get”
Even for the test city, that would still require an extreme amount of support. I’ve said this before but the idea of the global RBE is not exactly about building green cities.
It’s about changing the current social values that are in place to social values that are based on science.
As I said before, if you invite bullies into a venus project city, it would make the project into havoc because of their lack of education about reality.
“You admit to not ever talking to them, I doubt you are up for it.”
I never talk to them using text.
“If only you really meant that.”
There’s so much to get through, do you think it’s impossible for me to miss stuff??
“A way of life, when Jacque Fresco says that people should say “have a nice life”, that to me sounds like a final goodbye, that sounds like something rude you would say to someone that you don’t want to see again.”
That’s your interpretation. This is why a new language for human beings needs to be developed that isn’t subject to interpretation.
The bible is constantly referred to as an example of this.
“a church divided is no church at all” -Jacque Fresco
“I thought it was an international point of view.”
False values can be national and international.
“The need to have children will decrease, well, Jacque Fresco said in another video that people wouldn’t want to live forever, if this technology was available, it makes you wonder if it would be accepted. It’s the same video where he says people will have an extra eye in the back of their heads.”
I don’t know everything the future will hold. Would I want to live forever? Well to me it depends how much love a person has for life. In an almost infinite universe, that means there’s almost an infinite amount of things to do in a society that isn’t bounded by a lack of understanding about reality.
Jacque Fresco does not know the future, he’s making suggestions. It actually says on The venus project poster I’ve got that I downloaded from their site that their presentation is of what they think future of humanity could be.
When does Jacque say “this is what the future WILL be”?
“I don’t think Christian couples feel forced to have children and think that if they don’t, they will go to hell.”
From what I’ve seen some Christians are under the impression that having a lot of kids without planning is a good idea. God will take care of them is the attitude, plus the children can spread their religion.
How they get that impression is unknown to me.
“Then someone needs to explain to me what the purpose of samples are.”
Free samples are a simple marketing tactic, it’s to convince you to buy the product after getting the “free sample”.
“When people in the monetary system try to do that, you call it “patchwork”.”
That’s because the social values are still based on competition. What’s wrong with a reassessment of the current social values that are currently in place?
“I thought you were another voiceofracism467, where you live with your dad and your dad hate zeit-crap, but who knows, you’re probably lying about your dad loving TZM.”
You thought I was a what? Voice of racism is a youtube user as far as I know and he was doing some debates with zeitgeist critics If that’s right. Last time I checked, youtube told me you need a mobile phone and a E-mail address to have a youtube account. Two things I don’t have.
I’m lying about my dad loving TZM? Well I don’t care if you believe me or not on that subject. He actually jokes all the time saying that he needs to go sell his labour in the marketplace and how much he hates the market because it has grinding labour tasks demanded of him. I joke back and say that he’s REALLY giving me incentive to go and sell my labour in the market for doing grinding labour tasks. Barrel of laughs.
I’m anonymous, I’m not Voice of racism.
“That’s debunked:” I going to assume the video you’ve linked to is
“Social_Cooperation_Why_Thieves_Hate_Free_Markets.flv”
“you might expect that macy’s would hope that I would rob penney’s next”
Thieves threaten the whole money-market ideology. Because thieves do not encourage the flow or movement of money around the marketplace. Remember, you can’t have a market without money moving around it.
My actions of piracy would be frowned on by the market ideology, so get off that internet if you think the market ideology is important.
Again saying it’s a cooperative system is denying the fact that you have a scarce amount of money in supply.
If it was cooperative as this video is claiming, why should I have to pay for the right to live?
“crack down on theft”
This is complete ignorance. This video fails to ask the question “why do people steal?” Instead the human behaviour isssue is swept under the rug, and the market is assumed to be PERFECT. It’s comedy.
“Helping the other guy”
It’s not humans helping humans it’s corporations helping corporations! They’re conspiring against the “villain”! It even labels the person “villain”. Labelling someone a “villain” is a sign that it’s not a cooperative society.
Did you even watch this video? How is this meant to prove the current society is cooperative? It proves it’s competition better than I can explain.
Are you going to claim inflation does not exist? Inflation happens when more money starts circulating around the economy in order to continue to make items scarce.
If it was a cooperative system how come you have many businesses producing the same items? Those businesses are not working together to attempt to produce the best technically possible item that can be currently made.
They’re saying the Apple MP3 player is better than the Samsung Mp3 player. HOW IS THAT NOT COMPETITION?
“how to manage their affairs”
You mean how to maintain money flowing around the market.
“depend on trust”
Doubtful, considering I don’t trust corporations to investigate why human beings behave the way they do. Instead let’s just label the person “goat thief”, that’ll solve the problem. You can really solve problems by ignoring them.
labelled as “untrustworthy”
How in the world is this a cooperative society? The guy has an angry face pointing to a sign that says “this person is untrustworthy”. This person has a completely twisted definition of the word “cooperative”.
One of the things I noticed that was not mentioned in the other video you linked me that CLAIMED that this society is cooperative, is that it didn’t show anY visual proof of poverty even existing.
“we’re all merchants”
Wow that’s what I’ve said before in a different way, really loving social system it’s going to force me to be a merchant.
“We all trade with each other”
This video was not traded, it was SHARED.
“mutually beneficial ways of living and working together”
I don’t think telling people through implied advertisements that products bring happiness or money is more valuable than love is healthy at all. It’s detrimental, he’s denying how modern advertising works on the mind.
“They work diligently to create a false need for you to fill and it happens to work” -Moving Forward
I don’t deny that some cooperation exists in the market, yet that does not make it a cooperation-based society. It’s visually admitted in the video itself that corporations fight “villains” making it a war/competiton-based culture.
Unless you’re going to ignore what’s in the video you linked me.
“Now I know a Zeitard that like threatening critics with baseball bats, ironic.”
Umm.. what? I was talking about a POSTER. Sounds like you’re touchy, or you’re trying to be threatened.
The picture is meant to present how the market mentality works, I can’t stop you from you thinking that I’m threatening critics with baseball bats, that’s your delusion.
“It’s not contradicting if success is defined by having enough money to have children.”
I could define success as an action with is detrimental to humanity. You’re not saying that’s impossible are you?
“I don’t advocate irresponsibility.”
Depends if Parents and society knows what is responsible actions vs. irresponsible actions. No, it’s not up to what they think is true.
“The parents live with their children and others don’t.”
Real loving society.
“People can walk away and wonder why that person was being insulting avoiding conflict.”
Although conflict should be avoided, it the reason must be discovered why. I don’t like it when people say they wonder what the reason for something is when really they actually don’t want to know the reason for something.
“everyone living with their parents doesn’t sound great to me.”
Who said that’s what I advocate?
“If they are asking for rent money, they would be running a business, like VTV’s trailer.”
Money is the life-blood of business.
“They must believe in debt relief in some way.”
There isn’t debt relief for everyone.
“People didn’t see electronics getting smaller today and they buy those.”
You’re missing the point, the power of technology on the small scale is what is described as the supercomputers of today, logically that means the regualar sized devices we have now will be more powerful.
“The photoshop pic was hypocritical, but holy shit:”
I made an Microsoft Paint picture with a flag that says “Humanity!” on it. Is that okay “Big brother”? (again referring to the meaning of the term Big brother).
“Oh I thought competition brought about innovations. You might as well get off the computer.”
The products that are produced in the market (if you didn’t know), is about creating false needs for people to fill. As a business what random item can I think up then convince you to buy? Again have you ever heard of the corporation called Amway? That’s a prime example of the market in a more concentrated format.
“Where nothing scientifically can be concrete as you want it.”
The laws of nature don’t change. We can only be brought to a better understanding of them.
“I didn’t know flag designs were random.”
The patterns arranged don’t mean anything.
“I still don’t know the difference.”
I’ll get out the dictionary then.
Job (noun)
3. The performance of a piece of work
4. The responsibility to do something
6. An object worked on; a result produced by working
7. A state of difficulty that needs to be resolved
Employement (noun)
2. The occupation for which you are paid
The word “job” can relate to tasks or actions done without any involvement in the marketplace.
“employment” means to be employed in a paid position in the market.
“In 2009, maybe late of 2008, Peter Joseph Merola’s first post ever on the forum was promoting the fact that technology was replacing people at McDonalds, it’s 2012 and people still work at McDonalds. That should probably go here:”
Of course, replacing humans with machines even if it’s more efficient makes a corporation look bad even if they can replace human workers. The central notion of the current marketplace is that a human being must sell their labour in the market to deserve the right to live.
Why would technology replacing a drudgery role be a good thing? The belief is that we must sell our labour in the market!
“our monetary-based structure which demands labour for money blocks this process, for humans need jobs in order to survive therefore technology will be constantly paralysed” -zeitgeist addendum
“I don’t recommend books I haven’t read.”
I was talking about the ideas expressed in that book, I didn’t recommend it.
“A world where no one prays for you doesn’t seem to have a lot of love in it.”
That’s a crazy statement. PRAYER DOES NOTHING. I thought I wasn’t talking to someone who was religious damn. I’m sure if you pray then God will stop bullets from hitting people (joking).
“said before the 10 commandments”
Doesn’t matter where something is said in the bible, the fact is extremely religious people believe every word of the bible and accept it as true because they say it’s the word of God.
When we know the cosmos doesn’t write books.
“Okay not perfect, or else people wouldn’t be sick, partners promise to take care of each other, in their vows I think.”
Why can’t society promise to take care of itself? and act on that promise?
“Because it’s almost Valentine’s Day.”
I feel like they should call all the days that encourage consumerism to be called “Consumerism Day”.
Advertising products bringing happiness is a lie.
“The product you know she’ll love!” – What rubbish.
“I assume TZM is dead.”
Nothing to worry about then, I’m sure everyone who was has stopped advocating open-source.
“Sell your TV for a cell phone then.”
Cell phones advertise to you too. Do you know about phone-marketing?
“Not with price-matching.”
You’re missing the point. We’re told money has value and we accept that unconditionally.
“I watched it, thanx.”
Shows that people in cults are victims. So if members of TZM are members of a cult as some critics suggest then you should try to walk in the shoes of the members.
“You did mention calculators as an example.”
Technology is anything created to attempt to solve problems. To me the current problem is society is too indifferent towards itself so what technology can I create to solve that problem. Doesn’t necessarily mean computers, a way of thinking can be thought of as a technology if it solves problems.
“No AI, sorry.”
AI (noun)
“The branch of computer science that deals with writing computer programs that can solve problems creatively”
AI doesn’t exist?
“if you haven’t, be careful lol.”
To me society has reached its low since false advertising exists.
“Maybe secret videos were created in those closed teams.”
Part of the human being wants secrets to be revealed. Those secret scientology videos that aren’t meant for the public eye made it onto the internet because people had a sense of moral judgement where they’ve said to themselves;
“hey this isn’t right, I’m going to share this secret scientology video by putting it onto the internet.”
If that’s what naturally happens with the human being, then expect any and all secret videos to make it onto the internet.
“your body or someone who photoshops a scientist.”
With 3D representation it’s only a representation. Just like the venus project models. It’s obviously more impressive to see what’s represented work in real life.
This is only partially done, with the workings of countour crafting seen working, and one of the models of the venus project houses is the future by design for profit business, as in they made one of the model houses to encase the future by design shop.
” completely out of self control – Not completely, no.”
It says by defintion “Of or relating to manic”. I don’t feel excessively agitated.
“I don’t want to be hated on, because I don’t want to die.”
Then value everyone.
“Anything made by human beings are made by mother nature of course.”
The cosmos didn’t tell us to use money.
“I bet you would kiss your employer if he or she paid you more, if you had a job.”
bribery isn’t sexy to me.
bribery (noun)
1. The practice of offering something (usually money) in order to gain an illicit advantage
“con-artist with “real credentials – Not as many.”
Least you don’t deny that it’s impossible.
“You kiss Karl Marx I bet.”
It’s important to discover the validity of information, just because someone might say something that’s correct, doesn’t meant they’re 100% correct.
“I don’t.”
This is the tactic businesses impose. A business wants you to buy their goods over a competitor so they make more profits than the other business.
But of course as already discussed, stealing goes against the whole market ideology which is why then corporations will work together. Work together to conspire against a thef be creating a hall of shame.
“This directory in this comment is going to be great for readers.”
The concerns I answer, make sure to categorise them so you know I’ve answered them even if I don’t completely clear them up. Just so you know they’ve been at least answered.
If I can’t clear up some concerns, take them up with another member of TZM, I’m not infallible.
“I heard audio from meetings not recorded without Zeitards knowing there were being recorded exposing them as retards. I guess that challenge you mentioned before has took place already.”
Exposing them as retards? I actually wonder who was actually exposed. The public allows uneducated people to exist because it doesn’t know how to educate people.
“Because they are a major contradiction, as you said.”
the practice of business contradicts itself because it doesn’t see itself as self-destructive. Just like cancer. Cancer kills the host and itself it’s ironic.
“Commercials are more funny now days anyways.”
Parodies sometimes tell the truth of advertising in my eyes.
“But when Peter Joseph Merola uses those same techniques, I guess to you it’s okay.”
What’s he selling? He’s selling a dvd that insultings the idea of selling.
“only for the brand status it apparenly represents in the culture” -moving forward
“When that part is highlighted, Zeitards get mad.”
I didn’t get mad, I thought it was funny since it was first released onto the internet, then some critic said zeitgeist actually didn’t want you to see the video.
It’s because it didn’t make sense to me. But then at the end it says “in a evil commie RBE, government parallels YOU!” I lol’d.
“I don’t think they’ll be another cult expert reviewing TZM, since it’s dead.”
Oh that’s good then!
“If that “education” is “patchwork” to you, then in a RBE, there will be more hoarders I think.”
Something is patchwork to me when the social values are not considered into the equation.
“I don’t think they are forced to.”
Someone’s got to be the prison guard otherwise there wouldn’t be prison guards.
“I said what’s mundane to you may be mundane to someone else.”
Instead of arguing about what is and what is not mundane, the scientific thing to do is to scientifically define what mundane is to the human being.
This is if you’re for science.
“came close to wanting to charge people for signing up.”
came close, but it didn’t happen. I don’t pay anyone to submit what I do for zeitgeist.
“Sustainable businesses are moral, I remember when Peter Joseph Merola said in his list of suggestions at the end of Zeitgeist: Addendum, that people should support businesses like those, he can’t make up his mind.”
Sustainable businesses are only moral up to a certain point. To me there’s no such thing as a not-for-profit business. Plus they’ve bought into the lie that money has more value than love.
“But he said “sorry”.”
It’s good be recognised himself as a bully.
“When anyone offers collapse porn, I kind of feel that way.”
Again it’s about the validity of the information, not if you think the information is true or not. Is there a way of finding out if the information is valid?
“but TZM is still dead.”
I already mentioned the love article that someone posted, possibly because of my actions.
“Some of them are fake too”
Again, it doesn’t matter who says what, it matters what is said.
“I can’t (say it’s natural).”
It’s a conseqeunce of the way our reality works, feral children are a reality.
“I would want to tell my side of the story to try to explain why I’m innocent, not showing up assumes, well the courts will find me guilty.”
I find it funny how the concept of the opposing lawyer will try to twist the truth to his client’s interests.
If you aren’t “JOHN SMITH” then they can’t tell you to go to court, unless you force youself to belive at all times you’re “JOHN SMITH”.
“If they are not trolls, they’re bullies. Well I don’t think he’s a bully, or any people for TZM that gave constructive criticism, they seem more ready.”
Hang on, I’d really like you to explain the difference between a bully and a troll. Constructive criticism means they’re willing to give objective content that will help the project.
“Back then I think the Zeitgeist Movement was alive.”
No one must be advocating open-source.
“I thought to want criticism from both sides meant love to you.”
It depends, if the “criticism” is actually the intentional spreading misinformation then that’s not love.
“I think people can want things to be better without wanting utopia.”
Utopia is impossible.
Utopia (noun)
1. Ideally perfect state; especially in its social and political and moral aspects
you can have what might be ideal, yet you can’t have perfection.
“People don’t like bums that don’t contribute to society.”
Society is uncompassionate enough to blame the symptoms of the problems rather than going after the problems.
“You’re assuming everyone wants a RBE, that’s not love, that’s force.”
Money was conditioned into people by force.
Are you saying people don’t want to be loved?
“Irrational ? No.”
Irrational (adjective)
1. Not consistent with or using reason
How is it reasonable to assume everything will turn out badly?
“you’re assuming I’m some type of person in power.”
You have some power, yes. Collectively society gives away all their power to a government body, it’s not government that has power.
“won’t upload the old radio shows.”
If blog-talk-radio backs up some of the old radio shows what stops non-zeitgeist people from uploading them to youtube?
“Q&A videos are gone”
No one who was non-zeitgeist backed it up?
“I thought churches brought communities together.”
War doesn’t bring people closer. A religion competes against other religions.
the mormon church exclaims this; where they say they’re the real church that follows Jesus’s real teachings.
“Those letters would be the explanation, they are called variables.”
A woman is not a virgin before marrige – Sentenced to death – then hell
Don’t believe in God – Hell
Break one of the 10 commandments? – Sentenced to death – then hell
Anything that really questions the validity of religion is deemed satanic, isn’t that interesting?
“As far as he was concerned the devil did it! the devil had the foresight to come before christ and create his characteristics in the pagan world” – zeitgeist: the movie
“Let us acknowledge the craftiness of the devil, who copied certain things that were divine” -zeigeist addendum
“I doubt they would if people who are into open source projects go to other businesses to buy products they wouldn’t normally buy to try to make something themselves.”
Anything that discourages that flow of money throughout the market, you’re labelled something. Such as “villain”.
“anarcho-communism doesn’t work.”
anarchy-communism?? that’s impossible! You can’t have order and chaos at the same time.
“As I already explained, people’s values are always changing, you might as well do a test city now to prove to everyone a RBE can work. Since everyone is a part of the “Zeitgeist”.”
I’m only a part of the zeitgeist, I can only promote open-source since that’s what an RBE is. Again it’s not completely about cities, it’s about changing values to ones based on science.
freedom of religion is the freedom to engage in madness.
“It works for me, but even I don’t think the monetary system is an utopia.”
It works for you, but it doesn’t work for me, therefore the system needs updating. Utopia can’t exist because of its definition.
“You’re a hypocrite, you think when you watch TV, it says 666 and also claim not to be religious.”
When I said “to make sure you know you’re watching channel 666″ I was joking, I’ll make sure to say whenever I’m joking, geez.
“Firing back ?”
ignoring the stupid titles of their lectures the good quote was;
“We must humanise technology before technology dehumanises us” -martin buber
“we can’t automatically assume that they know more than critics.”
The only way to discover the truth is though unbiased investigation.
“I bet you use Windows tho.”
Of course, it’s easier.
“Oh for awhile I thought you thought they were corrupt.”
A scientist can be corrupted, it’s not impossible for scientific findings to be deliberately fraudulent.
“Michael Ruppert has a lot of failed predictions:”
Do we have infinite oil on this planet?
“But you have no problem using the technology that was driven by competition.”
Technology does not have to exist with competition. The cosmos didn’t tell us to make technology while in a competitive market!
“Insolent comment.”
When it comes to the way the marketplace operates, I’m proud of being disrespectful.
“So I guess nature isn’t a dictatorship.”
I said “Plans” I didn’t say “Blueprints”.
“I think people can go from rags to riches.”
I highly doubt that considering the way the system works now. The rich want someone to look down on creating a social ladder.
“Metaphorical, unless you think Adam Smith prayed to a different God.”
There’s no way of knowing that, you’d have to ask Adam Smith! The only thing we can do now is observe the way the current market operates and ask ourselves, is the current world of war, poverty, corruption etc leading us to a peaceful and loving world?
“That spontaneous order exist.”
Order coming from no planing? That’s improbable.
“Science has to be used to determine if the idea is actually good.”
Exactly, it’s not up to us. It’s up to people who do know science to assess unbiasedly the validity of ideas.
“My basic needs are met, now Zeitards want to live like Bill Gates while telling me people who live in 100 bedroom mansions make people violent.”
The word is jealousy. jealousy of others because someone’s got their needs met and they don’t.
“don’t have to lay people off.”
That sounds like a fragile social system to me.
“As people have to detect who is lying, you should be able to detect as well with humor.”
Rude humour isn’t impossible.
“please tell me what’s better than a moneyless society that does everything for you which machines that make machines, if you can answer this question, then I no longer can call RBE an utopia. Don’t use the time machine pausing metaphor either, that just didn’t make sense to begin with.”
Firstly not everything done for you, people want to do things. Machines are meant to be used for drudgery in a RBE.
drudgery (noun)
1. Hard monotonous routine work
If human beings make it so far into the future eventually our sun is going to die. When our sun does die, we might need to invent another form of social system or social interaction that would take place on a vehicle that would allow us to move through the cosmos to find another sun to obtain energy from. Of course humanity doesn’t completely have to move together, humanity could set sail in many different directions in our galaxy.
“to boldy go where no one has gone before” – star trek – the next generation
Yet I can’t know the future.
“Obviously Peter Joseph Merola wants it forced too according to his parallel government video, wait, I guess he’s a dictator if you think monetary reform is force.”
The parallel government video as I understand it would be a group of technicians that would plan the next social system.
“you become spoiled and ungrateful, and lazy.”
So are you saying it’s impossible for a human being to feel grateful if they’re handed what they need to live for free?
“Someone who plans their days just watching TV and going on the internet, all day.”
Sounds like its possible for people to be lazy in the monetary system just like an RBE.
“people complain about planned obsolescence when their light bulbs go out, it doesn’t make sense.”
So devices lasting is a bad idea?
“This contradicts with your open source philosophy which is another reason why RBE isn’t open source.”
How isn’t an RBE open-source, if you check the media project website there’s a picture that says “It’s time for open-source everything”. So we’re advocating open-source yet it turns out it won’t be open source?
“it will be no different.”
So it’ll be about religious beliefs, slagging psychology, celebrity testimony, and praising the leader of the group? Oh we’ll see lol.
“I don’t see how open source programs can be rationed if they are always available to download whenever.”
It’s great out they’re not rationed. Yet of course information is a different resource than food and water etc.
There’s a great comic I found which tries to demonstrate an RBE vs. capitalism I’ll link it at the end.
“to assume no one changes.”
People change, yet religious ideology cannot.
“If I saw Jesus with a swastika, I would be scared.”
Hah! I once made a picture as a joke that had Jesus with a swastika on his head!
“they get straight to the point and tell you the Constitution doesn’t mean shit after from the first film telling you that it should be protected.”
“The constitution is just a goddamn piece of paper” -George W. Bush.
I don’t agree with George W. Bush on everything, but there I do. Human rights should exist without the need for paper proclamations.
“it tells me that we have been becoming civilised, gradually.”
That’s a good thing, yet we should keep encouraging civilised behaviour so then we can really call our global culture civilised.
“I saw two people becoming suicidal in TZM, the guy defend eating shit was good and the one that felt scammed by the Venus Project.”
We can’t completely blame TZM for people being suicidal. All the factors need to be addressed when asking the question what makes a person suicidal?
That’s why I ask the question, what parts of “zeitgeist: the movie” make people into killers, instead of just thinking the whole film just makes people irrational.
“Which would make the Global Redesign Institute impossible if they have the resources ready to sell to people and those resources can’t be tracked either.”
Without a change in the social values, Yes.
“I think it could be represented easier as more people leave it.”
I can only represent the ideas if I’m accurately presenting the ideas.
“You should change the channel.”
Try to convince people to change themselves for the better.
“I think so, Bernie Madoff had it coming.”
That’s like saying murdering a murderer is justice.
“I thought they were being nice by not giving you all of the country’s debt.”
Every piece of money I have is owed to the bank by someone else. Everyone’s in debt.
“Nothing if you’re not resisting arrest. Shit, if you act calm, you may just get a warning.”
If a human being responds like a human being to a stressful situation it’s called a crime in some cases.
“supposedly heard of a RBE or else they would have more than 500,000 people”
If the monetary system isn’t a system based on a lie then no one should be threatened with RBE advocates saying things like “the monetary system is going to fail and we need a RBE”.
“I don’t think there were conspiracy theories in that movie”
There’s a difference between “conspiracy theories” and just the meaning of the word “conspiracy”.
“Reptilian Rollercoaster ride with David Icke!”
I don’t know really who David Icke is, the content of the information is more important than names.
“Everyone is sick because Jiddu K says so.”
Well it’s not just Jiddu K that says so. Although Michael Tsarion says some pretty wacky things, he says the same thing that everyone is sick.
“bankers shoot you with interest”
Well metaphorically
“Lets believe everything John Perkins say since he believes people can shapeshift.”
Let’s consider and evaluate some of what John Perkins says and see if it holds water. Umm.. people can’t shapeshift.
“it’s this amazing wonderful feeling and you know it when you get it, you don’t get it from money, you get it from connection” – zeitgeist addendum
“There are no leaders, but join the cult.”
I’m not following Peter Fresco.
“If you play monopoly, you’re evil.”
The monopoly metaphor was about emptiness from items.
“how far do you have to walk down that road before you see where it leads?” – Moving forward
“everyone is a blank slate cleverly.”
Not a complete blank slate yet we are to an extent. I wasn’t born to speak english, I couldn’t been taught to speak any current spoken language.
Plus to completely deny the idea of the blank slate is to say feral children do not exist.
“Invisible hand is taken literally”
What matters more is observing the current effects the money-market is having on the planet. Can we calculate (without opinion) it to be negative or positive?
“If you want a third testament, you can always find history textbooks”
Actually you’re right, there are verses such as the gospel of Thomas that was left out of the bible.
Yet what I meant when I said that was the bible is taken as truth without question by religious.
“Since people for TZM don’t have a model”
It’s the promotion of ideas. I’m not arrogant enough to say I know how to solve the world’s problems without any doubt.
“people should just create their own models instead.”
People should share ideas.
“Los Angeles Tribune: Western Crimes Rates Soar”
The revolution sequence is nonviolent, but the “Western Crimes Rates Soar” newspaper is to signal what the men behind the curtain are doing isn’t helping.
“In a cybernated government, there will be technicians, worse, wannabee technicians”
I don’t get it, what’s wrong with wanting to be technician to help society? (wannabee).
“Zeitards offer a cybernated government where people manage resources, okay, lets say people feel that whoever are managing the resources are doing a shitty job and someone thinks he can do better, politics will come back.”
It’s not about what person can do a better job, it’s about using science to discover effective methods of doing things. Politics today is just about slander.
Its about using science to discover technology that can effectively manage resources, people would oversee the system. It’s not about using people to manage the resources, we want to create a system that’s capable of managing resources better than humans can once set up.
“If not, then you have a dictator.”
We have dictators now.
“When the forums disappeared”
That doesn’t stop discussion, there’s the whole zeitgeist social networking site. But I think there’s a new forum anyway actually.
“scientific democracy, no one voted”
From my perspective a scientific democracy is not about voting, a view is only valid if it’s scientifically valid.
“Peter Joseph Merola was the one to pull the plug.”
If members still want to talk to each other using the internet, how in the world can PJM stop people from using the internet to communicate?
“But he added a hero in the third film, but he left, I think he works for the FBI.”
The “hero” in moving forward was an attempt I think to give the people a single face as a metaphor. After he throws the suitcase full of money away,
“That’s an assumption”
I didn’t assume with you, but I have seen Zeitards do this before when promoting the Zeitgeist Media Festival in Canada, my values were not shifting.
“The idea that you need to ask an authority if you’re allowed to do certain things based on someone else’s moral judgement.”
That someone else has been around longer than you [having more experience] and can explain to you why you can do or not do something on some science. For an example, parents will tell their children to not put their hands on the stove because they can burn their hands and don’t want their children to be hurt, to not present moral judgment would be neglect and I thought you were against neglect, and abuse and was for love.
“There’s a difference between TZM making a blacklist for people who they see as making too many insolent comments, versus what scientology does when they make a list.”
I don’t see a difference and people were harassed and 8 accounts were taken down and almost taking down the group I am in. It was an organized Zeitard attack.
“Are you saying I can’t promote the venus project’s ideas or train of thought because of the breakup “big brother”?”
When I go to the TZM facebook group, their main communication medium now, I think, I still see the Venus Project and Jacque Fresco link and one of the page owners goes by TVPChallenge and VTV has a Venus Project badge on their avatar, metaphorically, they are still stalking, you as an individual can do whatever you want tho. Also quoting Severn Cullis-Suzuki when her father thought very little of TZM seems to be stalking to me too, also using people in other ways promote TZM when the people don’t even know what the Zeitgeist Movement is. or goes imaginary. Like Michael Jordan and R2D2.
“I remember once there was this weird zeitgeist critic that made a replica of the circular city for the purpose of insulting it. It was amazing.”
I lol’d too. That Family Guy video was funny also.
“There are plenty of internet films that don’t include the person’s name that made the film. Why bother?”
Because they demand prestige and awards, I mean, rewards, according to the Zeitgeist Orientation guide.
“I was talking about how I saw asian immigrants doing caucasian’s nails and to me it looked wrong.”
You sound certain of that as if you asked proof to see if they were immigrants or not.
“Are you implying Peter Fresco has magical powers?”
He thinks he does, I think, it is funny, audio gets released of Matthew Wagner talking shit about himself being banished and still on a communication medium, TS3, proprietary software, I think.
“You do realise that humans existed before the modern money-market system existed?”
Then there was money.
“I don’t get it, constant debate doesn’t educate.”
Oh I thought you were trying to educate me with Stefan Molenew’s video.
“a church divided is no church at all” -Jacque Fresco”
There would be mini churches then.
“so get off that internet if you think the market ideology is important.”
But people buy stuff online too.
“I can’t stop you from you thinking that I’m threatening critics with baseball bats, that’s your delusion.”
I rather be safe then sorry.
“You’re missing the point”
I’ll never understand, damn.
“our monetary-based structure which demands labour for money blocks this process, for humans need jobs in order to survive therefore technology will be constantly paralysed” -zeitgeist addendum”
I guess Peter Joseph Merola doesn’t know the difference between job and employment either.
“Cell phones advertise to you too. Do you know about phone-marketing?”
You watch TV, I’m assuming you have TV, don’t stop now.
“So if members of TZM are members of a cult as some critics suggest then you should try to walk in the shoes of the members.”
I did join their facebook group when someone invited me, been there, done that, Zeitards rage if you disagree and call you a troll when you were invited, I was banished.
“I thought it was funny since it was first released onto the internet, then some critic said zeitgeist actually didn’t want you to see the video.”
It was highlighted, censored, then that was uploaded the 2nd time, then it was taken down again.
“Hang on, I’d really like you to explain the difference between a bully and a troll.”
One’s online, one’s offline, if you’re against labels tho, then you shouldn’t use any.
“It depends, if the “criticism” is actually the intentional spreading misinformation then that’s not love.”
Constructive misinformation lol.
“If blog-talk-radio backs up some of the old radio shows”
I’m probably going to download them just in case, the fat elf aka who will probably make up excuses about not losing weight because he said he suffered some kind of abuse growing removes some of his radio shows, I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the ZM Global ones disappeared as well, since he’s on that account now especially.
“Anything that really questions the validity of religion is deemed satanic, isn’t that interesting?”
People would be scared to ask questions then.
“When I said “to make sure you know you’re watching channel 666? I was joking”
Well it was a bad joke then because I think religious people watch TV too. Also I’m not impressed by Jeopardy AI:
“jealousy of others because someone’s got their needs met and they don’t.”
Jealousy will still exist. I might live in a oceanfront house that a lot of people might want to live in, in Cancun.
“I understand it would be a group of technicians that would plan the next social system.”
I didn’t know TZM had technicians.
“The “hero” in moving forward was an attempt I think to give the people a single face as a metaphor.”
I saw other people tho, tho.
“I didn’t assume with you, but I have seen Zeitards do this before when promoting the Zeitgeist Media Festival in Canada, my values were not shifting.”
If you don’t see the need for your social values or the social values of other people to change, are you going to stop other people from changing their social values that support a different social system?
“That someone else has been around longer than you [having more experience] and can explain to you why you can do or not do something on some science. For an example, parents will tell their children to not put their hands on the stove because they can burn their hands and don’t want their children to be hurt, to not present moral judgment would be neglect and I thought you were against neglect, and abuse and was for love.”
The current authority of politics and law presents unscientific moral judgement. That’s my perspective.
“I don’t see a difference and people were harassed and 8 accounts were taken down and almost taking down the group I am in. It was an organised Zeitard attack.”
“people were harassed” or people got annoyed?
Accounts being taken down? You didn’t say what the accounts are in! Typically to have an account taken down on facebook or youtube for example you need to violate the rules or terms of use. Or do zeitgeist members have an elite set of hacking skills?
Even on a zeitgeist site, they’ve probably got a terms of use. By the inclination of repetitiveness it sounds like the accounts you’re talking about can be made again free of charge, so where’s the problem?
still doesn’t sound as bad as harassment that Scientologists get up to against its critics. (according the video I linked you to) Scientologists contact law enforcement and spread absolute lies about critics saying critics have murdered people and things like that.
Have zeitgeist members stooped to the levels outlined in that video I linked you concerning what Scientologists do about its critics?
“When I go to the TZM facebook group, their main communication medium now, I think, I still see the Venus Project and Jacque Fresco link and one of the page owners goes by TVPChallenge and VTV has a Venus Project badge on their avatar, metaphorically, they are still stalking, you as an individual can do whatever you want tho. Also quoting Severn Cullis-Suzuki when her father thought very little of TZM seems to be stalking to me too, also using people in other ways promote TZM when the people don’t even know what the Zeitgeist Movement is. or goes imaginary. Like Michael Jordan and R2D2.”
You think? There’s a new forum I’m sure of. The system of communication is encouraged to gravitate towards your area. There’s MANY TZM facebook groups for the different regions.
“they are still stalking”
I question your use of the word stalking.
stalking
1. A hunt for game carried on by following it stealthily or waiting in ambush
2. The act of following prey stealthily
Are they going to eat Jacque Fresco? (joking).
They’re stalking the ideas or the train of thought, Jacque Fresco doesn’t own science. Is the only way we can move into a Venus Project type world is by TZM following exactly what TVP says? I thought you were against this movement being leader based.
Jacque Fresco claims TZM knows nothing, but does that imply he knows everything??
“Also quoting Severn Cullis-Suzuki when her father thought very little of TZM seems to be stalking to me too,”
Again I question your use of the word “stalking”. The content of what is being communicated is what’s important. Would you rather everything be read out by Microsoft Sam like in anonymous youtube videos?
If you search for videos made by anonymous althought they may have interesting thoughts in them, the fact is they can be bland because a general theme is to always use text to speech programs to ensure anonymity.
“also using people in other ways promote TZM when the people don’t even know what the Zeitgeist Movement is.”
Well before you said that there’s nothing wrong with quoting people, are you now saying there is something wrong with quoting people.
When they use quotes are they said “THIS PERSON SUPPORTS TZM!!!” or “I’m presenting a train of thought, that this person expresses well in this point in my argument”.
Recently I linked you “the bomb in the brain” series, not because of the creators views about TZM, but because of the science that’s presented. That apparently insults/child abuse do physical damage to a young person’s brain.
“Like Michael Jordan and R2D2.”
I haven’t seen the Michael Jordan or R2D2 video, yet the quotes and arguments that are excerpted I imagine to be used to make the case for an RBE. If you didn’t notice this has been the strategy of “zeigeist: the movie” from the very begining, yet its now being used to promote the RBE idea.
Step 1: Ignore copyright law completely
Step 2: Find intelligent quotes from anywhere that apparently support the conclusion for an RBE
Step 3: Find interviewees that support the train of thought that could lead to an RBE.
Step 4: Put together the video and call it Zeitgeist: A case for a RBE
Step 5: Give credit to anonymous.
“Because they demand prestige and awards, I mean, rewards, according to the Zeitgeist Orientation guide.”
It’s impossible to give an award to every video that supposedly deserves an award. Personally I disagree with the awards section on “zeitgeistmovie.com”. To advertise that the zeitgeist films have won awards is unnecessary if they’re truthful.
It’s up to the viewer to assess the information contained in a video if it’s accurate or not, that’s how you find out if what you’re watching is a good video.
“You sound certain of that as if you asked proof to see if they were immigrants or not.”
Okay, I’m only based that assumption on racial appearance. Yet the message is clear to me. caucasian women deserve to have asian women working on their nails, as if it’s something even needed. It reminds me of the typical scene you might see in a film depicting an old english society “shine your shoes for you governor?”.
“He thinks he does, I think, it is funny, audio gets released of Matthew Wagner talking shit about himself being banished and still on a communication medium, TS3, proprietary software, I think.”
Banish
1. Expel from a community or group
If you’re talking about Facebook, Peter Fresco couldn’t banish him from Facebook, just that group. I’m going to assume right now the new zeitgeist forum is still up on their zeit-social-networking site, let’s say I went on there and I didn’t read what was off or on topic concerning the discussion and I started talking about the green spoons I’ve got locked in a safe in my basement.
I’d be off-topic so I might be warned or banished or blocked or whatever. Is that fair? from the perspective of the forum it is because I was being off topic. Imagine if I went to a scientology critic forum, and I started talking about the zeitgeist movement, I’d be off-topic so I would be banned or banished from there. So it’s up to the moderators to decide what’s on or off topic on their forum. That doesn’t stop you from making your own zeitgeist critic forum and discussing whatever you want on it, like right now.
I mean it sounds like “Matthew Wagner” should stop crying about being banished and get on with figuring out how to encourage the train of thought, and that’s if he likes the train of thought or the goals TZM or TVP want to achieve. This is if he can ignore his own and other inflated egos.
I listened to a bit of the new youtube video;
The_Zeitgeist_Movement_ZFest_Mid-East_Event_with_Peter_Joseph.flv
And Peter Fresco Joseph said basically the same thing as what I’ve been saying here. TZM never stopped being the activist arm of the venus project because it’s the train of thought that TZM is promoting that was exposed to them firstly in zeitgeist addendum of course. (Some were exposed to the RBE idea through the film “future by design” which came out before zeitgeist addendum).
Even while TZM was joined with TVP, it was TVP’s train of thought TZM liked. Not necessarily the corporation “future by design”.
“Then there was money.”
My point was that money didn’t create humanity. Biology is about how we discover how life works, not monetary economics.
“Oh I thought you were trying to educate me with Stefan Molenew’s video.”
Ah, I meant constant disagreement isn’t educating.
“There would be mini churches then.”
There’s the part in zeitgeist addendum where it lists all the variations on christianity 34,000 I think was the claim.
“But people buy stuff online too.”
That’s very interesting actually, with the invention of the internet since it natually makes commnication easier, it makes businesses suffer because they’re unable to compete with online shopping.
Forcing their shops to go online, yet sites like Amazon have had a head start on other businesses that are yet to catch up with the online shopping phenomenon.
“I rather be safe then sorry.”
Thats sounds like the viewpoint of a religious person, better pray for mercy just in case God is real, better be safe than sorry.
“I’ll never understand, damn.”
I didn’t say that you’ll never understand, I was saying you missed the point in that part of the conversation. You’re talking about either.
1. We’re told money has value and we accept that unconditionally.
2. the power of technology on the small scale is what is described as the supercomputers of today, logically that means the regualar sized devices we have now will be more powerful.
“I guess Peter Joseph Merola doesn’t know the difference between job and employment either.”
Possibly or he’s referring to the employment definition of the word job.
Job
1. The principal activity in your life that you do to earn money
The word job can mean either employment or an action outside of the market. That’s what I hate about english in a way, when misinterpretations are allowed in conversation because of the definitionS (plural) of words.
“You watch TV, I’m assuming you have TV, don’t stop now.”
I don’t own a TV. Unfortunately I’m exposed to one. I’ve offered money to my parents to not watch it, yet they’ve refused. Funny how my bribery doesn’t work.
“I did join their facebook group when someone invited me, been there, done that, Zeitards rage if you disagree and call you a troll when you were invited, I was banished.”
There was a comment on the MOVING FORWARD youtube page I once saw I’ll try to paraphrase it.
“Basically to disagree at this in our discussion is to argue or disagree against all people helping all people, if you disagree on that point then you’re promoting sickness and you’re irrational”
What zeitgeist members advocate is zero competition. The cooperation as I outlined that happens in the current system is cooperation by corporations to conspire against people because they refused to comply with the rules of the marketplace.
If the marketplace was infallible, then no-one would refuse to comply with it like the “villain” anomaly.
I’m not saying a system can be completely infallible, yet it should strive to be better if you are perceiving someone in it as a “villain”.
You’re banished? Well if that’s your perception of banished, I don’t even have a facebook yet I call myself an advocate of the thoughts presented by the movement.
Even if I got banished from the TZM facebook group, I wouldn’t care. I would still keep doing the photocopy activism I’m doing now. From my perspective, it’s not an internet movement, that’s why I woudn’t care if I was cut off completely from TEXT communication with all members of TZM.
I send media project pictures to the site.
“It was highlighted, censored, then that was uploaded the 2nd time, then it was taken down again.”
If I’m not mistaken though, the critic video is still up on youtube, and TZM’s first release of that parallel government video are both still up right now.
Why was that video attemped to be censored if in the longrun TZM does not believe in copyright?
Could it be because from the perspective of TZM it did not present an accurate criticism of TZM?
“One’s online, one’s offline, if you’re against labels tho, then you shouldn’t use any.”
Labels are words themselves. The label of a person doing some sort of negative action shouldn’t be indefinite, yet the behaviour should be identified.
The word “bully” for example describes a type of behaviour.
The word “Troll” has only recently come about as being used to describe the behaviour of a “smart aleck” or a “bully”. People who are unfamiliar with the use of the word “troll” should try resorting to the actual words describe the behaviour than to resort to internet slang.
“Constructive misinformation lol.”
Misinformation agents would create sophisticated misinformation. Information appearing to be elaborate and well produced, yet designed to confuse or delude. Yet since lies crumble, the reasoning behind some of the information in such a campaign will be irrational. “Constructive” isn’t the right word.
There’s a great youtube video which is an example of a troll who doesn’t know he’s a troll.
The reason it’s great is because it demonstrates how some people aren’t putting up with ridiculous lies anymore. Because of the lies by “SoldierinGodsArmy” was probably promoting, he submits a video through someone else’s account. In the video he claims youtube admin and some youtube users are under the influence of Satan, yet funnily enough he’s asking youtube users for his help to get his account back.
he starts off with an intelligent speech then it goes completely irrational and it seems like he almost knows it himself, I’ll try to link it at the end.
“I’m probably going to download them just in case, the fat elf aka who will probably make up excuses about not losing weight because he said he suffered some kind of abuse growing removes some of his radio shows, I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the ZM Global ones disappeared as well, since he’s on that account now especially.”
I’m sure everyone uses being abused as an excuse. He will? Well if he hasn’t removed them now back them up and prevent censorship. If you think the ZM global shows will disappear, back them up to prevent censorship.
If you put them on youtube label them saying something like; “IN THE INTEREST OF PREVENTING POSSIBLE CENSORSHIP THIS INTERNET RADIO SHOW HAS BEEN POSTED HERE.” One of the goals of anonymous is to prevent censorship.
“People would be scared to ask questions then.”
when people are threatened with hell along with the other abuses in their life, it’s not impossible for a person to become superstitious.
“Well it was a bad joke then because I think religious people watch TV too. Also I’m not impressed by Jeopardy AI:”
Comedians keep telling jokes, some are hits some are misses. I’ll comment on that video later in this post.
“Jealousy will still exist. I might live in a oceanfront house that a lot of people might want to live in, in Cancun.”
We need to understand human behaviour to have a better understanding of how jealousy manifests. Is it possible to have people cycle through the popular destinations? Even so we want to make as a baseline where people live to be a great environment.
The residential part of the circular cities has surrounding gardens around the houses and the apartment blocks. In fact why wouldn’t you design mini gardens on the side of the buildings if that makes the surroundings better? In other words the default living arrangements are meant to be better than the bland concrete surroundings someone might see if they lived in the city apartment of today.
“I didn’t know TZM had technicians.”
The idea proposed is to have technicians design the new social system in the parallel government video, I’m not technician, I’m only someone who appreciates the TZM/TVP ideas. If all technicians believe the RBE idea to be unfeasible then the RBE will never happen.
“it’s technology that solves problems not politics” – zeitgeist addendum
“I saw other people tho, tho.”
The goal is to collectively accomplish peace, not using a superhero like tom cruise or peter fresco.
Responding to:
Watsons_Jeopardy_Win_A_False_Victory_for_AI.flv
http://www.singularity.com/images/charts/ExponentialGrowthofComputing.jpg
Check out the link above, now apparently according to the exponential function, technology is going to improve beyond what the human mind is capable of.
1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16384, and so on.
“It’s nothing like intelligence”
Concerning intelligence apparently AI right now is as smart as “one insect brain” but isn’t quite as smart as “one mouse brain” yet. Yet if you look at the picture I linked you, if the progress is exponential there’s a bell curve that goes to great intelligence.
“doing that with cars in the real world”
this of course reminds us of this quote
“put sonar and radar in automobiles so they can’t hit one another” – zeigeist addendum
“or anything close to that”
It’s how to define intelligence, the AI that does exist right now is designed just like a microscope, to focus our intelligence to enable us to use our brains in new ways.
Will technology be able to think like us in the real world? According to theory yes. But again I don’t know the future, we might just nuke ourselves tomorrow.
The following is overflow!
“The closed teams that TZM has tells me RBE will be the same when it comes to operations with their central computer.”
After the people do a free course and gain the credentials needed to prove that they can oversee the system that takes care of people. It would be closed to the extent if you don’t know how to oversee the system.
Why does TZM have their closed teams? What useful function do they have being closed? As far as all the free online materials provided or the train of thought, anyone can advocate what TZM talks about.
“It makes you wonder if he gives a shit about people.”
Well the important question to ask is if the public cares about itself. A single person reflects to an extent the values of the whole culture. Because the single person gains his attitudes from the culture we’re in.
That’s why if the public doesn’t care about itself, then we have a problem.
“Once we understand that the integrity of our personal existences are completely dependant on the integrity of everything else in our world, we have truly understood the meaning of unconditional love.” -zeitgeist addendum
“Her father bitchslapped Peter Joseph Merola:”
Did you focus on the content of what I re-quoted? Whether her father bitch-slapped Peter Joseph Merola is irrelevant to me.
“opinions are effective.”
opinions are completely weightless since by definition an opinion is a view that isn’t founded on any proof.
“When someone takes a quote from someone else and puts their name on it. However, quoting someone is sourcing.”
If the quote isn’t tampered with, then the value of the content of what’s quoted doesn’t change no matter what name is credited to the quote.
“I have to check out the quotes from the bible you mention and look at the context when I have time.”
“The LORD is a man of war (Exodus 15:3)” In what context indeed. The God of the Christian bible is a God of war. He’s a “Big Brother” when there isn’t one to step up to being there.
“The FBI is watching us: It would be funny to see them connecting that group with TZM.”
It’s a perceived threat. I’m not terrorist just because I post anonymous comments on a blog lol.
“Followers of “sovereign citizen” ideologies reject all government authority, refusing to pay taxes, not recognizing US currency, and sometimes engaging in acts of violence, FBI officials told reporters on Monday.”
They replaced the ideology the government handed to its citizens for a new ideology that they like. They probably think that government doesn’t have the right to impose its law on people. Refusing the pay taxes? Oh no! They’re so damn evil for trying not to involve themselves in the stupid money game. Not recognising US currency? Now that must be offensive since in modern money mechanics it says for money to work people must have confidence in it.
And sometimes engaging in acts of violence? Well I don’t know about that, I mean if you provoke people with the tedious elements of this system people are bound to get angry.
“homemade licence plates,”
lol!!!
““The ideology itself promotes violence and encourages violence,” said special agent Casey Carty, who said the FBI had a duty to be proactive in dealing with the potential threat. The number of convictions in “sovereign citizen” cases rose from 10 in 2009 to 18 in 2010 and another 18 last year. “We want to focus on this particular threat,” said McArthur, adding that evidence of the alarming movement is found “all over the country.””
Promotes violence? Well I don’t promote violence, it might be their meaning of the word “violence”. It’s “violent” towards the system if you don’t have faith towards it. If a large group of people don’t submit to their “JOHN SMITH” name, don’t recognise laws, don’t recognise US currency, don’t recognise state licence plates and the rest of it, what’s the establishment going to do? The whole system relies on faith towards it.
The only thing the Federal Bureau of Bullies can do, is to try to squash the threat and make it seem like they’re in control. Yet the truth can’t be stopped because in terms of social evolution, people can only get smarter. Unless we initiate another Dark Ages of course. If this current system is a false social social system then the public should be able to outsmart the people in power by showing them that we can create a new social system peacefully.
The powers that be want there to be war so they can keep protecting us.
Anymore concerns about TZM?
Something else I found interesting that a found awhile back. Someone produced a document called “miac-strategic-report” and from what I read of it, both sides are as scared of each other it seems.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/miacstrategicreport.jpg/
“or people got annoyed?”
It goes beyond annoying people when they manage to shut you down, or try to. But it was a waste of time on their part, accounts were made again because people aren’t scared of online cults.
“Scientologists contact law enforcement and spread absolute lies about critics”
They hate the nanny state, but use the nanny state [I mean threaten to use the nanny state] when they feel threatened by critics, I think that’s hypocritical.
“Are they going to eat Jacque Fresco? (joking).”
On ZDAY, they may make a birthday cake with his face on it and eat it.
“They’re stalking the ideas or the train of thought”
Okay then they should do the following:
1. Don’t put Venus Project in your names.
2. Don’t use Venus Project badges on your face.
3. Don’t promote Jacque Fresco or Roxanne Meadows or the Venus Project, period, them or their material.
4. Don’t worship igloos.
5. Don’t wear Venus Project clothes or costumes.
etc.
“Jacque Fresco claims TZM knows nothing, but does that imply he knows everything??”
He think he does.
“Well before you said that there’s nothing wrong with quoting people, are you now saying there is something wrong with quoting people.”
Yeah.. quoting.. but with videos, it’ll lead up to videos someone saying “OBAMA IS AWARE OF RBE” or some stupid shit like that.
“Recently I linked you “the bomb in the brain” series, not because of the creators views about TZM, but because of the science that’s presented.”
I heard he still disagrees with a RBE.
“Step 1: Ignore copyright law completely”
I saw this on their website: “© Copyright 2008-2011 The Zeitgeist Movement”. Oh.. maybe you’re right, they stopped that in 2012, well, I guess they did or they forgot to update it.
“Step 2: Find intelligent quotes from anywhere that apparently support the conclusion for an RBE”
Which most of them are usually inaccurate quotes.
“Step 3: Find interviewees that support the train of thought that could lead to an RBE.”
Thanx for clearing that up, Zeitards tell me that people in Z3 support RBE, I lol.
“Step 4: Put together the video and call it Zeitgeist: A case for a RBE”
Because it’s all about Peter Joseph Merola
“Step 5: Give credit to anonymous.”
No there are credits in the movies at the end.
“Personally I disagree with the awards section on “zeitgeistmovie.com”.
Okay.
“Okay, I’m only based that assumption on racial appearance. Yet the message is clear to me. caucasian women deserve to have asian women working on their nails”
When women [no matter what race they are] go to get their nails done, I think getting their nails done is all that matters to them.
“Peter Fresco couldn’t banish him from Facebook, just that group.”
I don’t know why he would use that language then if he’s not willing to ban him on TS3 or have moderators ban him on proprietary services, or facebook, as you mentioned, he either likes contradicting himself all the time or he’s delusional or both.
“I’m going to assume right now the new zeitgeist forum is still up on their zeit-social-networking site”
Oh I forgot about other TZM sites.
“let’s say I went on there and I didn’t read what was off or on topic concerning the discussion and I started talking about the green spoons I’ve got locked in a safe in my basement.”
I never seen critics make posts like that on forums for TZM.
“I’d be off-topic so I might be warned or banished or blocked or whatever. Is that fair?”
Sure. When people go off topic in the group I’m in, it shows how dead TZM is.
“I listened to a bit of the new youtube video”
I did too.
“That’s very interesting actually, with the invention of the internet since it natually makes commnication easier, it makes businesses suffer because they’re unable to compete with online shopping.”
I disagree because businesses have online stores too.
“Thats sounds like the viewpoint of a religious person”
Wearing helmets is not religious.
“I didn’t say that you’ll never understand, I was saying you missed the point”
I kept seeing “you missed the point” and said to myself “I’ll never understand, damn”.
“1. We’re told money has value and we accept that unconditionally.”
It makes sense to me, used computers cost less, new computers cost more.
“2. the power of technology on the small scale is what is described as the supercomputers of today, logically that means the regualar sized devices we have now will be more powerful.”
It wouldn’t make sense for them to hold back computers like that when they can easily try to sell them like 10 times the amount of how much a regular computer cost now, unless, of course, there’s more to the story.
“The word job can mean either employment or an action outside of the market.”
Well I think it’s your job to tell me what I missed. I’m joking.
“I’ve offered money to my parents to not watch it, yet they’ve refused. Funny how my bribery doesn’t work.”
Invisible money doesn’t work, I say invisible, because you said you don’t have a.. employment.
“Basically to disagree at this in our discussion is to argue or disagree against all people helping all people, if you disagree on that point then you’re promoting sickness and you’re irrational”
To expect people to want to work together on something they disagree or don’t know about on the solution to everything is to me that people for TZM propose, to me is promoting sickness and showing that they are irrational.
“What zeitgeist members advocate is zero competition.”
I see competition, RBE VS. MONETARY SYSTEM.
“villain”.
From the cooperation video, I think that was a joke, I only see that word used in cartoons, which was the point in the animated video.
“If I’m not mistaken though, the critic video is still up on youtube, and TZM’s first release of that parallel government video are both still up right now.”
That’s great.
“He will?”
He has, if you go to the gym, according to VTV, it’s being in a cult.
“Well if he hasn’t removed them now back them up and prevent censorship.”
I got distracted and downloaded videos instead, thanx for reminding me.
“Will technology be able to think like us in the real world? According to theory yes.”
Time will tell.
“Promotes violence? Well I don’t promote violence”
I lol’d.
“It goes beyond annoying people when they manage to shut you down, or try to. But it was a waste of time on their part, accounts were made again because people aren’t scared of online cults.”
Take a break then, If the zeitgeist movement is so self-defeating then to you it would safe to assume that TZM won’t be around as long as scientlogy has been.
Online cults can’t be as threating as cults that have dug their feet into the real world.
“They hate the nanny state, but use the nanny state [I mean threaten to use the nanny state] when they feel threatened by critics, I think that’s hypocritical.”
Of course it is! the goal is to use any method to preserve themselves. A group that requires heavy self-preservation methods is a group that is obviously based on lies.
Easy, prove them wrong and then the most critical thinkers of our society will be able to debunk the cult’s doctrines. Being then a critical thinker would then make a person responsiable to get the word out about the group.
One of the key things I promote to get people onto the train of thought zeitgeist propagates is “love is more valuable than money.” so for starters, prove that statement wrong is TZM is wrong about everything.
“On ZDAY, they may make a birthday cake with his face on it and eat it.”
That’s nice.
“Okay then they should do the following:
1. Don’t put Venus Project in your names.
2. Don’t use Venus Project badges on your face.
3. Don’t promote Jacque Fresco or Roxanne Meadows or the Venus Project, period, them or their material.
4. Don’t worship igloos.
5. Don’t wear Venus Project clothes or costumes.”
In the lecture I’ve linked below from what I saw of that lecture it talks about the train of thought. “Visualizing a Systems Approach”.
The thing is people don’t have to affilate themselves with one group, they can affilate themselves with many groups. Why can’t a person say they advocate TZM and TVP. or does it have to be binary to you? TZM OR TVP?
“Their material”
This reality, already allowed for any material they could possibly come up with. I will pirate their mateiral. In fact I think the venus project orenitation video (not the TZM orentation video) has been piraed onto youtube! I remember once I got it, it was a short video that gave reasons why we needed an RBE.
Then there was a more modern one came out that used Peter Joesph to narrate it but it said, script written by Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows.
“He think he does.”
Then you should recognise that arrogance.
“Yeah.. quoting.. but with videos, it’ll lead up to videos someone saying “OBAMA IS AWARE OF RBE” or some stupid shit like that.”
I remember there was a youtube video with that title, didn’t watch it because I predicted what it was going to be.
Obama gave probably some positive speech, yet a TROLL titled that video obama is aware of an RBE. But guess what he probably didn’t say?
He didn’t say “We need social values based on science”, “We need technology, automation to replace mandane jobs”, “we need to rid the world of war forever” and so on.
He probably didn’t make statements like that, he probably made washy positive statements not not EXACTLY what TVP or TZM has been saying what we need.
“I saw this on their website: “© Copyright 2008-2011 The Zeitgeist Movement”. Oh.. maybe you’re right, they stopped that in 2012, well, I guess they did or they forgot to update it.”
Some people probably have their reasons for going along with the copyright religion. But technically, what in the world will stop me from going onto the zeitgeist website, saving a zeitgeist article and reading it at home.
By law that’s copyright infringement is TZM going to sue me for reading a TZM article at home when I support TZM??
“Which most of them are usually inaccurate quotes.”
Doesn’t matter, as long as the subject matter supports, or is thought to support an RBE.
“Thanx for clearing that up, Zeitards tell me that people in Z3 support RBE, I lol.”
I don’t believe that they do. There’s this quote for example.
“There has to be a link between the economy and the resources of this planet, the resources being all animal and plant life the health of the oceans etc” – Moving Forward
The person that said that supports a train of thought that could lead to an RBE, not completely 100% in support of an RBE.
“Because it’s all about Peter Joseph Merola”
Does he own the word “zeitgeist” now?
“No there are credits in the movies at the end.”
At the end of the copy of “zeitgeist: the movie” I have, no credit is given to Peter Joseph Merola, only the sources are given to books and other films.
I prefer that credits, the name “Peter Joseph Merola” means NOTHING to me.
“When women [no matter what race they are] go to get their nails done, I think getting their nails done is all that matters to them.”
It’s a disgusting business that promotes egotistical behaviour (hey that’s just the view of someone from TZM, a failing-cult-religion).
“I don’t know why he would use that language then if he’s not willing to ban him on TS3 or have moderators ban him on proprietary services, or facebook, as you mentioned, he either likes contradicting himself all the time or he’s delusional or both.”
Having a cry about getting banned doesn’t promote the train of thought presented in TZM/TVP materials.
“Sure. When people go off topic in the group I’m in, it shows how dead TZM is.”
Well, if people are just being off-topic in a group or just stuffing around, then those aren’t people who are really focusing on the goals of TZM/TVP. I mean why are they there if they’re being off topic in that group?
“I disagree because businesses have online stores too.”
Not all businesses however, making it difficult to compete if you’re not online. For example, with the internet job applications are also advertised on it, and obviously with newspaper job advertisments, they’re less refreshable.
“Wearing helmets is not religious.”
I was talking about what you were saying, not about wearing a helmet. You assmed too much there, I’m not going to go around beating critics!!
“It makes sense to me, used computers cost less, new computers cost more.”
The delusion of money is that the money itself does not have value even though it’s treated us such “a medium of exchange”.
Running out of time, copying the rest.
“It wouldn’t make sense for them to hold back computers like that when they can easily try to sell them like 10 times the amount of how much a regular computer cost now, unless, of course, there’s more to the story.”
If technology is improved to such a level, where advanced technology is common, then how could you sell highly advanced computers?
Even the mobile phone, and large capacity USB devices are coming down in price because of the progress of technology. And as long as technology improves the market wil suffer.
This is why technology should be embraced, because if the progress is allowed the market will become unnecessary.
Plus part of the belief of the human being is that he needs to sell his labour in the market for money, if technology replaces him/her, that’s disasterous in terms of people who believe in the market.
“Well I think it’s your job to tell me what I missed. I’m joking.”
You could say I’m making that my job yes, as long as I’m more entertaining than some other zeitards you’ve spoken to. I must be since I keep getting responses.
“Invisible money doesn’t work, I say invisible, because you said you don’t have a.. employment.”
Well if I had money then lol.
“To expect people to want to work together on something they disagree or don’t know about on the solution to everything is to me that people for TZM propose, to me is promoting sickness and showing that they are irrational.”
This is where science comes in. Science transcends disagreement through testing, observation, experiment, and all the other great elements that make up the scientific method.
Since we all live in the same reality, the laws of nature or the machinary of nature is the same everywhere on Earth.
Chemistry in America is the same as Chemistry in China. The same elements, the same tools to do experiment etc.
“I see competition, RBE VS. MONETARY SYSTEM.”
Attempted comparison between the two thoerys and methods. Not exactly competition since a global RBE doesn’t exist at this time.
“From the cooperation video, I think that was a joke, I only see that word used in cartoons, which was the point in the animated video.”
I don’t know where he’s joking and where he isn’t then. I actually think he wasn’t because recently I saw a report on people going to gas stations and filling up without paying the gas station for the fuel.
So they established the “Wall of shame” where they cought the villains on camera.
“He has, if you go to the gym, according to VTV, it’s being in a cult.”
Define the word cult,
1. Adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices
Can a gym pressure you into say paying money to be a member and tempting you to buy their products, hence there’s a simmilarity between scientology and a gym. Go for a walk, don’t join a gym.
“I got distracted and downloaded videos instead, thanx for reminding me.”
All good
“Time will tell.”
That’s what’s so great about science, what will be proven to be a reality by science next.
OVERFLOW!!
I want to address your idea of “spontaneous order” again.
“Our global economic system is based on a social darwinism if you will, which assumes that if everyone looks out only for their self interest often as the expensive of others who are basically seeking the same thing in theory, a larger order social balance will magically occur.” – “Defining Peace” Zeitgeist movement lecture
Or as Adam Smith put it “the invisable hand”.
The question is, is there evidence against the “spontaneous order” idea? Well it’s how you define order. If you have poverty, war, corruption, lying, stealing, murder, rape, and all the other forms of behaviour we could classify as negative behaviour towards humanity, what does that say about how our society is currently ordered?
Or do you assume the results of your “spontaneous order” idea to be a good thing?
“peace is not characteristic of the current model of economic practice” – defining peace, zeitgeist movement lecture.
All forms of violence need to be categorised.
Violence (noun)
3. A turbulent state resulting in injuries and destruction etc.
Anything that can be measured to be harmful by the human being’s perception and through modern technology is violence.
Anymore concerns about TZM? By the way, I hope other critics are not ignoring these comments if I do manage to address the concerns about zeitgeist. There would be over-lap because critics might share the same concerns about TZM.
The damn electricity went out and I lost what I was typing, I’m going to try this again.
“In the lecture I’ve linked below from what I saw of that lecture it talks about the train of thought. “Visualizing a Systems Approach”.”
Let me see if I can remember what I said here, okay, I watched it, it looks like all the tracking is done according to Jason Lord, so people should want to do a test city now, or at least know where they want to build one, and it actually highlights why the Global Redesign Institute is pointless as it shows which countries grows the most whatever already which will still require the same amount of transportation that we need now when it comes to trading, buying and building stuff to countries that lack whatever is not growing there, but in another. I remember listening to one of Peter Joseph Merola’s radio show where he says that a RBE is defined by everything being locally produced so that transportation energy wouldn’t be wasted, well, the only way that can happen is if we live like in Star Trek where everything can be teleported to us, well, I don’t think that’s possible and encouraging this project [GRI] isn’t encouraging that train of thought, I don’t think.
“The thing is people don’t have to affilate themselves with one group”
Yeah but the Venus Project broke up with TZM and Jason Lord still decided to show their circle city, to me, again, this is stalking. if you wanted to prove to me that TZM wasn’t stalking, then talking about a RBE with different architecture would be “moving forward”. I wonder if they purposely promote NASA so that Zeitards think that Douglas Mallette really works for NASA. or ever did.
“In fact I think the venus project orenitation video (not the TZM orentation video)”
That new TVP film coming out will be more of their orientation since it’s almost an hour long, and the Zeitgeist Orientation video was about 97 minutes, but in March, I’m probably going to be more interested in the Billion Dollar Movie:
“Obama gave probably some positive speech, yet a TROLL”
HA!
“is TZM going to sue me for reading a TZM article at home when I support TZM??”
Probably not, Peter Joseph Merola trademarked “The Zeitgeist Movement” and I think he forgot to update it, don’t worry, TZM is common heritage again, I think.
“Doesn’t matter, as long as the subject matter supports, or is thought to support an RBE.”
You’re better off just saying things yourself, encouraging copying and pasting without examining the quotes and their accuracy isn’t promoting critical thinking.
“At the end of the copy of “zeitgeist: the movie” I have”
Oh okay.
“It’s a disgusting business that promotes egotistical behaviour”
I can tell a woman that she’s beautiful without getting her nails done, then maybe she might stop if the only reason she was doing that was for me, but if she wants to get her nails done because she wants to express herself, then that’s fine too, however, I wouldn’t call it “egotistical behaviour” and if her friends can’t do her nails like the way she wants them, then she helps business.
“Having a cry about getting banned doesn’t promote the train of thought presented in TZM/TVP materials.”
Matthew Wagner thought it helped since he thinks he out RBE’d Peter Joseph Merola.
“I mean why are they there if they’re being off topic in that group?”
Because they use to criticize TZM and now think TZM is dead too, I think.
“Not all businesses however”
I left a long response here, let me see if I remembered what I said, oh, that’s true, some businesses do good from basic advertisement alone, but as they grow, I think they’ll be able to do more, like have their own website, delivery guys [creating employment], etc.
“I was talking about what you were saying”
I was joking originally.
“I’m not going to go around beating critics!!”
I’m getting scared again, no, I’m joking again.
“Running out of time, copying the rest.”
That’s why I waited.
“If technology is improved to such a level, where advanced technology is common”
I think technology we have today is advanced compared to 100 years ago.
“Go for a walk”
VTV is too lazy I think anyways and I don’t think he opposed gyms because he had to pay to get in one or be forced to buy stuff in it.
“Our global economic system”
I’m sure every country doesn’t have the same type of economic system.
“All forms of violence need to be categorised.”
But promoting violence doesn’t help anyone and isn’t promoting love.
“I hope other critics are not ignoring these comments if I do manage to address the concerns about zeitgeist.”
I think I’m going to bold my concerns in my old posts, I’ve seen Jim Jesus and James Kush do this with some of their posts, I think I’ll try that next, but I don’t think anyone is really paying attention to us, lets not be egotistical, and you know this too since you go on other articles of this site.
“The damn electricity went out and I lost what I was typing, I’m going to try this again.”
That’s shit-house. What I do is I get notepad open, and I keep saving by hitting CTRL+S frequently.
“Let me see if I can remember what I said here, okay,”
Again the only way we are even going to have a test city done is by a massive shift in social values. Doesn’t exactly want to just build the cities, even the venus project materials such as the PDF “Designing the Future” proabably talks about how we need to change the social values first before moving into green cities.
Although Alex Jones may not like it, more films would need to be made to condition the public in such a way to accept new social values which would be needed for the green city to be a successful project.
This reminds me of what a teacher said when I was attending university. “A computer network would run great if there were no people using it!”
“or at least know where they want to build one”
Of course I can’t be part of such a team, yet that’s the idea of the global re-design project PJM wants to do. Which is basically the venus project again to me it seems. It actually contradicts what has been said before when I come to think of it. Because it materials it says it makes sense to build new green cities from the ground up, then the global re-design project wants to re-design areas or something.
“and it actually highlights why the Global Redesign Institute is pointless as it shows which countries grows the most whatever already which will still require the same amount of transportation that we need now when it comes to trading,”
The whole point of TZM is to get accross the idea of “trading” is now unneeded in the wake of advanced technology. Production of localised to the single green city, it isn’t transported by sea or by plane anymore. Since all the technology is shared and there would be no patents on anything, methods for localising production to the single green city is what is suggested by Moving Forward.
“whatever is not growing there,”
Growing food is done by hyroponics not by conventional agriculture.
“the only way that can happen is if we live like in Star Trek where everything can be teleported to us,”
Well no, what’s described in the venus project is the idea of “Transveyers”, which is an elevator and a train in one. And the idea is to have the transportation system designed as part of the city.
Transportation in modern cities by cars is all over the place, it looks like a mess. Also what’s encouraged is the idea of 3D printing, where you download the design for the product, then it builds in your own home.
Now 3D printing, when I was exposed to this idea… I mean if 3D printing is real then how won’t it make life easier.
“Yeah but the Venus Project broke up with TZM and Jason Lord still decided to show their circle city, to me, again, this is stalking. if you wanted to prove to me that TZM wasn’t stalking, then talking about a RBE with different architecture would be “moving forward”. I wonder if they purposely promote NASA so that Zeitards think that Douglas Mallette really works for NASA. or ever did.”
Well the venus project broke up with TZM, But TZM didn’t break up with TVP. I mean what’s going to stop people from thinking about the ideas that TVP presents. TVP doesn’t own ideas, again it’s like that business that claimed it owned the colour blue.
Different architecture? Well what’s been discussed before is the idea of peak efficency or peak design methods. So if TVP discover peak design methods do they now own those methods? when reality itself already allowed that combination before fresco even existed? I mean what if I say I own 1+1=2(R)(TM) or the colour GREEN(R)(TM).
I remember once there was a website that has a water-mark through the sounds you could buy, you’ve got this woman advertising the website all through a sound effect you might want to use. Imagine advertising at the same time you’re watching a program.
“That new TVP film coming out will be more of their orientation since it’s almost an hour long, and the Zeitgeist Orientation video was about 97 minutes, but in March, I’m probably going to be more interested in the Billion Dollar Movie:”
Roxanne Fresco won’t be able to stop me from making a DVD with both TVP and TZM content on it. I tried and her magical powers don’t reach me. (downloading vid).
“You’re better off just saying things yourself, encouraging copying and pasting without examining the quotes and their accuracy isn’t promoting critical thinking.”
This reminds me of when KeithTruth tried to make some loose connection between some spirit society and TZM because peter fresco used the term “intelectual materialism”. In other words, there is no real origin of information, it simply exists, so to quote something from someone is just a show or a play people do to the common way it is accepted as “doing research”.
For example, if you check videos made by anonymous on youtube, they mix both quotes and their own text, in the text-to-speech program they’re using. But they mention no real credit to anyone when they borrow quotes from “fight club” or “v for vendetta”.
“I can tell a woman that she’s beautiful without getting her nails done, then maybe she might stop if the only reason she was doing that was for me, but if she wants to get her nails done because she wants to express herself, then that’s fine too, however, I wouldn’t call it “egotistical behaviour” and if her friends can’t do her nails like the way she wants them, then she helps business.”
Again, my perspective is “getting your nails done” is an invented business and it really serves no function. Society could exist without it. Cut your nails with nail scissors, having asian girls slaving on them looks wrong to me. That’s what a lot of business is about to me, inventing a business and telling the public you need that service, like scientology!
“Matthew Wagner thought it helped since he thinks he out RBE’d Peter Joseph Merola.”
lol, we’re meant to work on this train of thought together.
“delivery guys [creating employment], etc.”
As a business grows, it doesn’t create happiness. According to Moving Forward, the process of creative thought is discouraged by monetary incentive. Monetary incentive is only good for mundane labour or what’s also known as “carrots and sticks”.
“I’m getting scared again, no, I’m joking again.”
HAHAHA!!
“I think technology we have today is advanced compared to 100 years ago.”
As I said before, notice how we don’t have the jobs required in medieval times? I’ve said this before to people, but if you really want the marketplace to continue, you’ve not only got to stop technological progress, you’ve also got to reverse it to bring back all those jobs that have been replaced.
“VTV is too lazy I think anyways and I don’t think he opposed gyms because he had to pay to get in one or be forced to buy stuff in it.”
That’s what’s commonly called or known as a cult. The similarities aren’t denable between a lot of organisations that engage in that sort of practice. I could say a member only golf club (lol pun) is a cult.
“I’m sure every country doesn’t have the same type of economic system.”
No, but it’s the belief in money that zeitgeist talks about. In all cultures, the money might have different pictures on it, yet it’s money none the less.
“But promoting violence doesn’t help anyone and isn’t promoting love.”
I said “categorised” not promote! When you categorise and understand violence then you know how to prevent it. Simple to understand, difficult to achieve.
“I think I’m going to bold my concerns in my old posts, I’ve seen Jim Jesus and James Kush do this with some of their posts, I think I’ll try that next, but I don’t think anyone is really paying attention to us, lets not be egotistical, and you know this too since you go on other articles of this site.”
Any concerns I can answer that “Jim Jesus and James Kush” have I can also attempt to answer using you as a proxy.
Righty O! SEA YUE next time!
“Again the only way we are even going to have a test city done is by a massive shift in social values.”
That’s massive.
“Although Alex Jones may”
Apparently Alex Jones thinks they were dead a long time ago after his interview with Peter Joseph Merola.
“TVP doesn’t own ideas”
Look at the picture up top again.
“Imagine advertising at the same time you’re watching a program.”
When Exemplar Zero promoted the Venus Project with music that still had some women’s voice on it, I think it was a women’s voice, it makes you wonder if they actually paid for the music for the promotion or not.
“This reminds me of when KeithTruth”
He thinks TZM is dead too I think.
“Again, my perspective is”
Opinions aren’t effective, that’s what you said.
“I’ve said this before to people”
I bet VTV’s ex-wife is still working at Burger King.
“I could say a member only golf club (lol pun) is a cult.”
I lol because I remember that being used as an example in the Zeitgeist Orientation video. I could say you advocate cult activity.
“I said “categorised” not promote!”
I thought Stefan Molanew did that already.
“Any concerns I can answer that “Jim Jesus”
“James Kush”
http://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2012/02/17/resource-based-economy-or-star-trek-science-fiction
I think he read my last post lol. Okay I’m done bolding my posts from this article, except the mega-one, there’s just no space in that one left.
Whew..
“That’s massive.”
The number whatever the amount needs to be an amount large enough to put pressure on the status-quo. So right now does the status-quo feel anything from anything TZM, or TVP presents? Well no. As the article says “not even widely known yet”.
according to good old wiki there’s 7 billion people on this planet. so can just 50 million have an effect on the status-quo? (not exactly 7 billion able minded but 7 billion in number).
“Apparently Alex Jones thinks they were dead a long time ago after his interview with Peter Joseph Merola.”
Oh well then all of his worries are over then if that’s true. Although the joke is on him because fighting conspiracy doesn’t bring happiness, because fighting doesn’t bring happiness. When you fight something, you become what you’re fighting.
“Look at the picture up top again.”
“Designed by Jacque Fresco” That’s a claim, and all copyright claims are ridiculous. I could say All cubes are owned and designed by JOHN SMITH at http://www.thecubeproject.com.
Copyright is a common delusion. Think about this, when you visit any website technically you’re engaging in copyright infringement. Why? because you have to download the materials pictures or whatever onto your computer to view the website.
If you have copy protected a piece of content, then putting it on the internet isn’t a good idea since the internet is a medium where sharing is required for it to work. That’s putting all your copyright protection to waste if you put something on the net.
“When Exemplar Zero promoted the Venus Project with music that still had some women’s voice on it, I think it was a women’s voice, it makes you wonder if they actually paid for the music for the promotion or not.”
People who promote the venus project try not to follow the copyright or monetary-market religions as best as they can. The feel not paying for something to promote something is honourable.
“He thinks TZM is dead too I think.”
Then people who promote open-source must not exist. Well soon I’m going to a zeitgeist meeting, I’ll see how dead it is. I mean that is testing or experiment. Critics say TZM is dead, yet if I go along to a meeting, I wonder if I’ll just see a pile of corpses in the meeting room where ever it is.
“Opinions aren’t effective, that’s what you said.”
Take it with consideration. What I say maybe true or false. I’m not afraid of being wrong.
“I bet VTV’s ex-wife is still working at Burger King.”
Is this really a concern about TZM’s or TVP’s ideology?
“I lol because I remember that being used as an example in the Zeitgeist Orientation video. I could say you advocate cult activity.”
Well from my perspective you’d be incorrect, I dislike the exclusive-ness of scientology, gyms, golf clubs, bowling clubs, shooting clubs, rave clubs, swimming clubs, and all other clubs, or cults that advocate you needing money for membership and more money to buy the products needed to be an effective member.
TZM materials, well you could buy the zeitgeist film series, yet the primary concern is to distribute them for free, yet besides that the member fee is nothing, and all the other materials are nothing. People write those blog articles on TZM-blog site I assume for nothing.
“I thought Stefan Molanew did that already.”
Not everyone is educated on valid scientific evidence, if Stefan Molanew is right with the “bomb in the brain” series and people recognised it as true, then we wouldn’t live in a social system that allows such abuse to damage brain development.
“That’s why we need an RBE, infinite production on a finite planet”
He might not understand the theory completely. The current monetary-market, or consumerism, whatever name you want to call it, is linear. Meaning when we use resources the products, or resources are trashed after use and put into land-fills.
Recycling enables resources or materials to be used over and over. It’s not infinitely using resources, it’s re-using resources obtained into the system so then can be used over and over.
If you continually use resources and then just dump the products into land-fills you eventually run out of resources if you aren’t responsiable. Say if you don’t recogise the natural laws that replenish resources.
How is this current method of resource management effective since it allows poverty?
I’ll respond to the new article in time!
Here’s a question, can Peter Joseph be compared to Peter Popoff? See video. I mean we know Peter Joseph is just a scam artist so that’s why I requested Peter Popoff’s FREE Miracle Spring Water and his FREE Miracle Manner Bread instead of valuing the Earth and everyone on it.
Peter_Popoff_-_sue_me,_I_dare_you,_I_double_dare_you!
Peter Joseph Merola reminds me more of Peter Gilmore, always wearing black and shit:
But I have seen Zeitards promote Zrii before and we all know how much of a scam that shit is:
https://twitpic.com/show/iphone/5tr7ki
Oh you don’t ?
It was PROVEN on this blog no-one is a blank slate, my genes tell me to be bad.
can you not handle the FACT that it was PROVEN on this blog that NO-ONE is a blank slate hence my GENES TELL ME to be EVIL.
Are you going to address the fact that you prove the blank slate theory is WRONG and my genes tell me to be evil?
TVP Rock!!!!
TZM sucks…
What happened to BOTH them being wrong?
BINGO!
Remember everything they say is wrong. Do not value the earth and everyone on it.
TZM had an opportunity to be a well respected proactive force of good…. And then TZM happened.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/my-response-to-the-zeitgeist-movements-leader-pete/
Some red meat for your next post.
LOL! OPGhostbusterz, what a bunch of crap! Go play your PlayStation!
Im glad Anonymous hackers can see you think their raid on the Zeitgeist cult is a joke. I find it funny how Zeitgeist clings to people that hate them and calls them cultish. Occupy Wall Street, Venus Project, Anonymous, The Truth Movement, everybody calls your movement a cult and whats more, they are launching attacks on your Zeitgeist Online Churches.
haha indeed http://opghostbusters.tumblr.com/
The more they’re “attacked” the more they’ll feel as if they’re in the right. lol, censor them completely.
Are you going to let me post the most hateful comments about the zeitgeist movement I can think of again?
Translation from German:
Resource-based economy and then …?
Again and again, hear or read one of the zeitgeist, RBE ( resource-based economy, founded by Jaque Fresco, Venus Project) is a great idea and that ideology should absolutely pay attention , just to ” Occupy times “it would be alleged in the interest of all citizens to positively change something …
RBE , in German, ” resource-based economy “, according to Zeitgeist solve all economic problems may be and as a critic is one more than ” dumb “or” ignorant “of Zeitgeist averted .
Who, however, only a spark of idea and knowledge about the German social and financial system has, knows that there is something wrong RBE but absolutely not to function as it is touted by Zeitgeist.
The abolition of money and all currencies to lead to a resource-based barter worldwide, sounds like a nice feature (at first) but it seems more likely just a soap bubble to be, which could burst quickly, if you look at this ideology simply time to go through your head can . (How much should you carry around bags of apples to ertauschen a great car? …)
Here you see a picture of how Jaque Fresco of the world, based on this ideology imagines .
Sim City 5000 is not it? Sterile than an operating room …
Quote (translated in German):
The term resource-based economy was introduced by Jacque Fresco. It is a system in which all goods and services without using money, credit, barter, or other systems of the debt or servitude are available. All resources are considered common heritage of all people, not just a select minority. The premise under which this system is based on the knowledge that the earth has an abundance of resources. Our practice, the use of resources by rationing of money for our survival is useless and counterproductive [...]
Here is the link to: http://bit.ly/uxm9oh
Very many supporters of the Zeitgeist movement hold fanatically to this ideology and firmly take critics not seriously and make them as ” ignorant “because. Times with ghosts trying time critical on this subject discuss , have fun.
Such ideologies are without mercy to criticism on the German OccupyBewegungen advertised, and Represented as a solution to all problems “sold”, so are the real activists who want to really change something, where are the critics with the implementable solution attaching?
Operation Ghost Busters
The operations supported by Anons who want to subvert not by Time Spirits, Moonbats and other conspiracy theorists, or can influence.
Anonymous stands for freedom of information, anti-censorship and human rights – this idea should not be exploited for it to spread wild and weird conspiracy theories.
The infiltration of the protest camps (OccupyGermany) in Berlin, Frankfurt and Dusseldorf by Zeitgeist and other organizations, should be taken seriously and not get over to see!
About Zeitgeist
The zeitgeist is thinking and feeling way one age . [1] The term refers to the nature of a particular era or the attempt to recall them to us. [2] The German word Zeitgeist has been taken over by the English as a loanword into many other languages .
As a concept creator is the poet and philosopher Johann Gottfried Herder , the first time in 1769 in his Riga published writing critical forests or considerations, the science and art of beauty on, according to recent writings by the “Zeitgeist” wrote. [3] In this work polemicized Herder against the philologist Christian Adolph Klotz and his writing genius seculi that around 1760 in Altenburg, was published. [2] In his work, had sought Klotz to develop across time instrumentation and measurement criteria to track the peculiarity of a particular era. [2] The phrase genius saeculi (“spirit of the age / century”) was – as opposed to genius loci (“spirit of place”) – known in antiquity, in the early modern period but already established and can be found long before Klotz. [2] In this respect, the term zeitgeist is also regarded as a German borrowing from Latin. [2]
Popular was the phrase “spirit of the times” and the composition of “Zeitgeist” only after the French Revolution and especially in the time of the pre-March . [3]
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe leaves in the early 19th Century in his fist. The first tragedy of the storm and stress of thumb “the spirit of the times” rewrite so (Faust I: 575-577):
“What is the spirit of the times,
this is the reason the men own spirit,
in which the times are reflected. ”
“The mental situation of the time” is the title, in 1932, Karl Jaspers for his cultural criticism , chose not determined a time in the spirit of the situation, but the background to the consideration of his presence explained the spirit of that time.
Source & Copy: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist
——————————
Who knows the Zeigeist white films, but unfortunately not all about the ideology or those intentions and goals.
Require detailed information should be on “Brave New World” (Brave New World) , 1984, THX 1138, Blade Runner or inquire on the Internet .
The Zeitgeist Movement says:
” Central to the people is a huge dome with a central computer that distributes ALL information, filtered and interpreted to be. ”
“Money is not important and currencies do not matter”
[...]
Someone just sent this to me:
http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/forum/5259/zeitards-brilliant-new-plan-for-mass-awareness-hand-out-dv/#reply-4a5fb5e1
-Peter Joseph Merola
I just remembered from listening to his last radio show, he said he couldn’t make it to the Isreal event for whatever reason, I wonder if he got intimidated from the Venus Project Israel team coordinator lol.
“RBE promotes extreme spoiled behavior.”
Getting your basic human needs met is “spoiled behaviour”?
“Do people still buy films?” Sure.
I encourage people not to.
-tsk tsk tsk… I have a small collection of VHS, VCD and DVD, and I have a sizable collection of cassette tapes, CD’s and vinyl records. I’m proud to say that I support the artists as well as the industry that puts out these stuff. Expensive but totally worth it! Encouraging people not to buy films is the same as encouraging people to STEAL. Besides, the quality of original is so much better. That’s why zeitgeist films suck. If it’s not sitting on your hard drive like a fucking porn clip, it’s burned on a crappy DVDR. Artists make sacrifices too. I’m reminded of a lot of new kids in the independent music scene who discovered music through the internet and want to get everything for free. Fucking parasites.